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Dr Bruce Syme

Vets All Natural - Perfect Puppy Nutrition

395 posts in this topic

Juice, you are more than welcome to come down to Petstock Camperdown next Sunday (29th January) and have a chat directly with Dr Bruce Syme. Some dogs do have food sensitivities. He will be there between 10am and 3pm. Bring your Bully for Bruce to look at.

Bruce does prefer lamb over chicken, but if your dog does well on chicken you should stick with it.

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Liking this thread :) As mentioned previously, not all diets suit all dogs and as we've had quite a few different ailments with different dogs to deal with here (kidney disease, IBD, pancreatitis, allergies ... as well as rescue dogs coming through in various states of ill health due to bad nutrition), I'm always interested in food/nutrition discussions.

I found that putting new rescue dogs straight onto the Tucker Time roll and Nutro dry food has been the gentlest way to start getting them back to good health... it also works great for the dogs with medical issues. This thread has really got me thinking of converting back to raw feeding again. I'll need to factor in a lot of things but I think it's worth giving it another go :)

Thanks for the incentive ;)

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juice   

Bonn's skin settled back down this morning, must have been something else.

Went back to Petstock today and bought a 5kg bag , then went off to another petshop and bought some lamb ,cheaper at $3kg then roo.

2 Things, no free treats in my shop, so didn't get any, they said they hadn't had them :(

secondly, the van is hidden right around the corner so hard to spot, might want a better profile to get more sales ;)

However, the nice lady there gave me a bottle of the omega blend to try :thumbsup: ( nearly out of date, thats why)

So, going to give this bag a go, should last me 5/6 weeks, driving alot farther to get the mince might get annoying ( tiny freezer), and then see what i think.

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VAN - can you tell me how much effect dry food/kibble/biscuits has on the PH level of the digestive system. If raw food keeps it acidic and cooked food causes it to become alkaline, does dry food also cause alkalinity?

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VAN - can you tell me how much effect dry food/kibble/biscuits has on the PH level of the digestive system. If raw food keeps it acidic and cooked food causes it to become alkaline, does dry food also cause alkalinity?

Hi Yellowgirl

You are correct, raw food keeps the stomach pH at around 2, and when feeding cooked food the pH rises. Dry food is cooked food. The temperatures needed to firstly make 'meat meal' are incredibly high, and then the food is cooked again to dehydrate it. You have seen what happens to protein when it is cooked (boil an egg, BBQ a steak). It's not just protein that is affected by heat either, most organic substances can be changed with heat. Many people don't realise that Omega 3 is extremely heat sensitive, and government regulations only state that the ingredients prior to cooking are to be listed as ingredients. A huge step forward for processed food would be for the active ingredients to be listed post cooking.

The digestive system of a dog has evolved to have a pH of around 2. At 2 bones dissolve, salmonella cannot survive, along with parasites not coping. Dogs which vomit up bones are often fed on a cooked diet, the body rejects something it cant digest. For anyone feeding cooked food and bones they should think about adding some raw meat to their dogs diet. Lower their dogs stomach pH so bones break down quicker. It reduces the chance of undigested bone causing obstructions.

Here is some more info if you are interested http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=113

With processed food often fillers are added, people say VAN has too many carbs, yet the digestible carbs in Complete Mix when made up is around 7%, compare that to many dry foods. As far as fillers go Bruce thinks the Premium Dry Foods have improved vastly in their use of fillers, cutting out the useless cereal byproducts.

When there are too many cereal byproducts the actual location of digestion within the dog changes, making the body work harder than usual.

Edited by Vets All Natural

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Bonn's skin settled back down this morning, must have been something else.

Went back to Petstock today and bought a 5kg bag , then went off to another petshop and bought some lamb ,cheaper at $3kg then roo.

2 Things, no free treats in my shop, so didn't get any, they said they hadn't had them :(

secondly, the van is hidden right around the corner so hard to spot, might want a better profile to get more sales ;)

However, the nice lady there gave me a bottle of the omega blend to try :thumbsup: ( nearly out of date, thats why)

So, going to give this bag a go, should last me 5/6 weeks, driving alot farther to get the mince might get annoying ( tiny freezer), and then see what i think.

The free treats Juice are in the Puppy Packs, you get them directly from our head office. I can have a pack sent to you, or if you come next Sunday there will be a Puppy Pack with your name on it :)

Looking at your location you would have visited the Bella Vista store?

My own dog is on Complete Mix and I usually use different types of meat. At the moment it is beef and chicken. Even though Bruce loves kangaroo its been in short supply so my dog is getting the greyhound low fat beef. Every month I buy bulk meat and soak some Complete Mix, I then package it up into lunch bags and freeze. 2 hours work (including going to buy the meat) and I have a months worth of food. Granted we do have a beat up old fridge in the garage. Feeding raw is always more work than pre prepared. The emergence of tin and dry dog food was at the same time as the emergence of pre packaged human food. Convenience sometimes wins out.

Edited by Vets All Natural

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juice   

Yes , Bella vista store, they were very good at giving info :thumbsup: just really bad spot away from all other dog food.

The complete mix had a sticker on saying free treats?

Making it up is no problem, really easy.Although i have never handled lamb either, gross too, must be a blood thing :laugh:

I have been given the omega oil to try, but wondering if i should give the food alone a chance first to see what i think?

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Thanks so much for the extra info VAN.

I'm supposed to preparing for my role as chief bridesmaid tomorrow! ... instead I went shopping for the ingredients you've listed, and also checked the Complete Mix ingredients and info on the website and have made up my own little recipe! The grain mix has been soaking for several hours already, I can't wait to add everything else and get mixing!

I'll be introducing the raw mix to my crew over a two-three week period (most of them are seniors and/or have medical issues) so I'll be taking it slowly and monitoring them carefully.

I also got some chicken necks and wings which I'll bag up into portions now and start including them in the next week or so.

:)

Edited by yellowgirl

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Drumbeat   

I've used VAN in the past as an alternative to adding vegetables.

When I tried it on our boy who we adopted last year I was a bit alarmed at the amount of 'output' so haven't used it for a while.

I realise the VAN contains roughage which increases the output but how do I know when it becomes excessive?

How many of you using it give the amount recommended on the packet - my dogs are 7.5kg & 8kg and the amount seems huge - I usually give about 3/4's and even that seems a lot?

Do any of you still give veggies as well as the VAN?

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Drumbeat   

I give half of what packaging says to my adult boy and 3/4 of the amt to my puppy

Thanks, I'm glad it's not just me that thinks it's a lot. I might also go and visit Victory pet foods to look at their meats,

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I give half of what packaging says to my adult boy and 3/4 of the amt to my puppy

Thanks, I'm glad it's not just me that thinks it's a lot. I might also go and visit Victory pet foods to look at their meats,

I have been very happy with Victorys meats, been using their roo, lamb and goat for 18 months now. No hassles except they cut their bones too small for my liking

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Yes , Bella vista store, they were very good at giving info :thumbsup: just really bad spot away from all other dog food.

The complete mix had a sticker on saying free treats?

Making it up is no problem, really easy.Although i have never handled lamb either, gross too, must be a blood thing :laugh:

I have been given the omega oil to try, but wondering if i should give the food alone a chance first to see what i think?

Hi Juice,

Certainly start using the Omega Oil. Bruce, in his skin protocol, starts the dogs off on the Omega Oil and then once the skin is settled either weans them off completely or changes over to the cheaper Flax Seed Oil.

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Thanks so much for the extra info VAN.

I'm supposed to preparing for my role as chief bridesmaid tomorrow! ... instead I went shopping for the ingredients you've listed, and also checked the Complete Mix ingredients and info on the website and have made up my own little recipe! The grain mix has been soaking for several hours already, I can't wait to add everything else and get mixing!

I'll be introducing the raw mix to my crew over a two-three week period (most of them are seniors and/or have medical issues) so I'll be taking it slowly and monitoring them carefully.

I also got some chicken necks and wings which I'll bag up into portions now and start including them in the next week or so.

:)

That's great. Bruce will be a happy man if he can get more dogs onto raw feeding. In the very first post Bruce's article gives his recommended recipe for a home made raw diet. Even if people made 95% of it up themselves and used the Health Booster to cover all vitamins/minerals.

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I've used VAN in the past as an alternative to adding vegetables.

When I tried it on our boy who we adopted last year I was a bit alarmed at the amount of 'output' so haven't used it for a while.

I realise the VAN contains roughage which increases the output but how do I know when it becomes excessive?

How many of you using it give the amount recommended on the packet - my dogs are 7.5kg & 8kg and the amount seems huge - I usually give about 3/4's and even that seems a lot?

Do any of you still give veggies as well as the VAN?

The feeding guidelines is at the upper end of the scale. Almost everyone ends up feeding less, as they see their dogs respond very well to it.

There is no need to add veggies. That's the great thing about Complete Mix, with meat and bones it makes up a total diet.

The 'output' is certainly more than a dog fed dry food, but that is for a reason, the expansion of the sphincter muscle and emptying of the anal glands. What you will find that they disintegrate very quickly.

Edited by Vets All Natural

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JulesP   

I would be interested if Bruce thinks I can/should feed a natural diet to my dog. She is a 2yo border collie with multiple liver shunts. She has had hepatic encephalopathy episodes. She also needs a low purine diet as she had had stones form.

She is currently on and doing well on Hills L/D. I am slowly going broke though!

I have a fairly good idea of what I could feed her but have been advised not to go that route by the other vets.

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I will PM you the details of Bruce's liver and renal failure diet for you. It's what he uses in his practice.

Not to replace your own vet's advice, but might give you some ideas to discuss with them.

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JulesP   

I will PM you the details of Bruce's liver and renal failure diet for you. It's what he uses in his practice.

Not to replace your own vet's advice, but might give you some ideas to discuss with them.

Thanks :)

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