Cordelia Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control At what age do babies get a personality would you say? Or are all human beings simply moody, impulsive creatures with no control over themselves? They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control At what age do babies get a personality would you say? Or are all human beings simply moody, impulsive creatures with no control over themselves? Personality develops over a person's life. Generally development slows after a person reaches maturity. Babies have a personality in-utero. They are born with their personality.. we all develop as we grow.. but our base personality is there from conception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilla-My-Rilla Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I agree with you Cordelia. I am always in a rush and hurry to get everything done, which is how I have been since birth - including being born within 40 minutes. My sister was born with the biggest grin on her face, and was such a bubbly baby. My other sister was such a serious baby and remains so today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I agree with you Cordelia. I am always in a rush and hurry to get everything done, which is how I have been since birth - including being born within 40 minutes. My sister was born with the biggest grin on her face, and was such a bubbly baby. My other sister was such a serious baby and remains so today. Me 3. My daughter is just as clingy to me now as when born. Watching my friends baby from birth to now...just as demanding, bossy and particular, two years on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Babies have a personality in-utero. They are born with their personality.. we all develop as we grow.. but our base personality is there from conception. Ok, I would describe that as temperament, which I agree can be largely pre-determined. By personality, I mean a much richer expression that babies are capable of. I've never been charmed by a charismatic baby, they all seem a bit on the self-absorbed side to me. At least until they start talking more than crying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Greytmate - I usually hate this argument, but your post is just obvious you've never had a baby. They are not just lumps who lie there, suck a boob, go to sleep and poop their pants. Really, they aren't. Yes, I think your appreciation of babies is shallow. Not your fault, you haven't had one, and I thought the same before I'd had one too. If you haven't had something, baby or dog, then your appreciation of them is shallow by default, and the 'bad' points are exaggerated because the good points have never effected you or been revealed. It's the same as the dog argument by people who aren't into them. Dogs don't talk either, they forget most of their owners when rehomed, owners that could have dedicated hours of time with them, and who are forgotten when you give them a warm bed and some food. They are driven by instinct and impulses and have temperaments, not personalities. They are best trained using food or toys, they can't do anything out of 'love' because they only have rudimentary emotions. They are not capable of being 'good' or 'bad' or doing amazing things out of moral choices, because they aren't even capable of it. They have no concept of morality. Some breeds have a smell to their coat, some with long hair have to have their poop groomed out of them if it sticks. Unless trained, they will poop and vomit and piss where you don't want them to. MANY are loud, overly energetic and annoying to anyone who doesn't know them. Heck, I've had rabbits and heard - they are dumb, boring, just sit there and do nothing. That's so vastly different from the truth that they are harder done by than babies! Anyway, you get my point hopefully. Your experience of babies isn't 'intimate' enough (as in, sustained and long term interaction with one) to hold as much weight as someone who has. I wasn't that interested in kids before I had one either...I wouldn't have said I disliked them, but I wouldn't have said I liked them either. Having one has made me appreciate human beings more, because babies/toddlers give you an incredible view of how sweet, funny and complex humans are before we f*ck them up with the whole nurture issue. I preferred dogs to humans in some ways before I had one, but now I see how incredible humans are. It's easy to say we begin life as parasitic lumps of instinct, but we don't - babies don't take very long at all to show how they thrive on love, and touch and stability, how quickly they develop a sense of humour and how quickly we learn things beyond the instinctual. As for hormones being the reason we love our babies...of course that's true in some ways. But it's the same for most of our family....it doesn't negate the strength or importance of love we have for them just because we were randomly allocated those people. Even the type of partner you prefer is just a combination of your genetics and your upbringing. Most of us are also randomly allocated our dogs....I didn't choose to love my dog Noah, I just had him from a puppy (and our reaction to puppies is instinctual and hormonal too) and loved him because I had him and got to know him. Unless you specifically took a dog and trialled it to see if you loved it enough or not, then you are in the same boat. We grow to love most things, and it's just need we're born with *shrug*. My son doesn't talk yet, he cries more than he verbalises, and I can assure you he has a rich and complex personality already. But to others he might just appear a toddling little weirdo who randomly shouts out 'gaba!" and therefore isn't really worth engaging with. But all my dog does is make woofy sounds too...and I'm sure you'd agree there's more to him than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Anyway, you get my point hopefully. Your experience of babies isn't 'intimate' enough (as in, sustained and long term interaction with one) to hold as much weight as someone who has. My experience of babies holds more weight than yours in a thread asking why some animal lovers would dislike children. We already know that most people like children. We already know why they do. I thought this thread was to explore why some people don't. You are right that I have never had the good experiences with babies necessary to form a positive opinion of them. And I don't seem to be biologically driven to desire one like most people do. But don't tell me that I am shallow or that my opinion doesn't hold weight. Am I wrong about this thread and it is actually just here to have a go at people who don't want kids? If so, I'm sorry I bothered to post here for the benefit of trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Babies are very noisy a lot of the time, and smelly a lot of the time and are pretty boring. They can't speak, they can't move properly and do nothing for me. But you say I am shallow because I can't find anything to appreciate in other people's babies? What can babies do that is so good? They cannot do any of the things that make adults appealing and good to be around. They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control. I think it is shallow when hormones take over parents' brains and suddenly this weak, noisy, smelly, boring, greedy thing is suddenly more important than anything and anyone else in the world. There is nothing appealing to me about babies, they are grotty, loud and annoying.Your affection is all in your head, and caused by the hormones designed to keep the species alive. Like a dog acting on its instincts to bury a bone, there is no deeper intellectual basis for you liking your baby, or you having a shot at the people that don't. How is it shallow? The bolded statement makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control At what age do babies get a personality would you say? Or are all human beings simply moody, impulsive creatures with no control over themselves? While I would be the first to agree that a newborn has no "personality" and is basically just an uber dependant 'blob', I personally feel that by the time a child is close to say, three months of age a basic personality exists, somefar more entertaining than others. This has been my own personal observation of children, both my own and others. Oh, and I've met plenty of adults who lack in personality too. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 How is it shallow? The bolded statement makes no sense at all. Because it requires no thought or critical analysis. Its an emotional reaction that can even over-ride logical thought in some people at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Babies are very noisy a lot of the time, and smelly a lot of the time and are pretty boring. They can't speak, they can't move properly and do nothing for me. But you say I am shallow because I can't find anything to appreciate in other people's babies? What can babies do that is so good? They cannot do any of the things that make adults appealing and good to be around. They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control. I think it is shallow when hormones take over parents' brains and suddenly this weak, noisy, smelly, boring, greedy thing is suddenly more important than anything and anyone else in the world. There is nothing appealing to me about babies, they are grotty, loud and annoying.Your affection is all in your head, and caused by the hormones designed to keep the species alive. Like a dog acting on its instincts to bury a bone, there is no deeper intellectual basis for you liking your baby, or you having a shot at the people that don't. How is it shallow? The bolded statement makes no sense at all. It is no more shallow than any other mammals instinctual behaviour. Or any other instinctual behaviour. If you instinctually put your hand out to stop someone from falling is that shallow? No. This action requires no thought or critcal analysis either. Edited March 4, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 How is it shallow? The bolded statement makes no sense at all. Because it requires no thought or critical analysis. Its an emotional reaction that can even over-ride logical thought in some people at times. But that still doesn't make it shallow....it's instinctive...instinctive is different to shallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 How is it shallow? The bolded statement makes no sense at all. Because it requires no thought or critical analysis. Its an emotional reaction that can even over-ride logical thought in some people at times. Isn't this because we are human? I think the vast majority of what we do in our day to day lives is done on instincts and without critical analysis. Perhaps not always for the betterment of the outcome, but I can think of many scenarios where acting quickly and on instincts rather than an analysis of the situation has prevented injury, saved lives, time, effort, money and probably a few dinners too. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I used the word shallow in response to the post I was replying to. It was suggested that I was being shallow. Maybe I mean that it is just as shallow to have a love for babies than it is to avoid wanting to be near one. I'm not saying it isn't a serious and deeply felt thing, or that emotions are not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 People have the right to like or dislike anything they choose, it is how they express those choices that is interesting. Whether it be about life choices like children or pets, or tastes in fashion or food, how a person expresses themselves is very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 People have the right to like or dislike anything they choose, it is how they express those choices that is interesting. Whether it be about life choices like children or pets, or tastes in fashion or food, how a person expresses themselves is very telling. I would question why a person would enter a thread and express their opinions of other posters yet choose not to express anything that contributes to the discussion. How they express that is not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 People have the right to like or dislike anything they choose, it is how they express those choices that is interesting. Whether it be about life choices like children or pets, or tastes in fashion or food, how a person expresses themselves is very telling. well I can't speak for other posters but it gets pretty annoying when you have to keep explaining yourself because people just can't accept the way you want to live your life. Not meaning here, but everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 You can question whatever you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 It simply isn't worth discussing a concept that is impossible for certain others to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 People seem hung up on the word shallow. I'm in the phone so can't quote, so I'll do my best. I figured from some of the posts that 'shallow' was meant to convey lack of depth of experience or understanding. NOT Shallow as in selfish, un informed, bigoted, self centred. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 People have the right to like or dislike anything they choose, it is how they express those choices that is interesting. Whether it be about life choices like children or pets, or tastes in fashion or food, how a person expresses themselves is very telling. well I can't speak for other posters but it gets pretty annoying when you have to keep explaining yourself because people just can't accept the way you want to live your life. Not meaning here, but everywhere. Like the "Why do you have so many animals? You could have a really nice house and a pool if not for them and be able to go on holidays etc. etc." I used get that all the time from family, but I think they finally get me. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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