The Spotted Devil Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It appears from that clip that the participants knew the dogs would be tested. Absolutely. It also appeared that they were having more of a go at the judges for putting such a dog up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog_fan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) It appears from that clip that the participants knew the dogs would be tested. Absolutely. It also appeared that they were having more of a go at the judges for putting such a dog up. Yes that's what I got from it as well. Especially when she said that the vet was doing nothing more than what a judge could do. I suppose one way to achieve change quickly is to make sure judges consider everything before they award Edited March 10, 2012 by dog_fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Well, the Americans are having hysterics over it. Letters to the AKC demanding they never ever do this, etc. Of course they are. IMO no one breeds for more extreme types than them and its basically a professional show scene with a LOT of money involved. You've got to remember they also have yet to ban cropping and docking so the "animal welfare" side of purebred dogs isn't under the same kind of pressure .... yet. Livelihoods are at stake in the USA - not just reputations. Edited March 10, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ooo that Bulldog in the vid is gorgeous! won a lot of hearts with his win, with no screams about being exaggerated. Heh, you must have been on the wrong forum, one I am on was very riled up about that dog panting and shuffling his way around the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes, there ARE BIG issues in some breeds including the one I go in to battle for but there is a way of moving forward and seeing the forest as well as the trees. Another public affairs nightmare. Another negative message sent world wide about the purebred dog and the ineptitude of those who sit in positions of power and another negative mssage about the failure of the system as it currently is. What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now". What many of the public will and that is that the purebred world is breeding dogs, and further to that, awarding dogs that are unhealthy. The dog got all the way through 'the' most highly acclaimed pedigree show didn't it before it was denied the award. A breeder exhibited a dog that had health issues and a judge awarded a dog that had health issues before the award was stripped away. The general public only know that the dog was unhealthy which is exactly what anti purebred people are saying. Purebeds are unhealthy. It sends out a negative message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The message to me is that some purebreds are unhealthy and the KC is finally going to do something about it. Most dogs passed the vet inspection. While I think it could have been executed better (more than one vet for example) I'm glad they didn't go down the American route and hit the ignore button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes, there ARE BIG issues in some breeds including the one I go in to battle for but there is a way of moving forward and seeing the forest as well as the trees. Another public affairs nightmare. Another negative message sent world wide about the purebred dog and the ineptitude of those who sit in positions of power and another negative mssage about the failure of the system as it currently is. What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now". Thats not the message I'm getting and doubtful the one the public will get either. Its saying to me that purebred dogs which are bred for the way they look are sick. Whats more most people with two eyes in their head and who are not blinded by the culture can see it and have seen it for years. The thing they control is the judges and they should have thought this out better rather than make public sacrifices. So it's what, 3 dogs, out of all the hundreds of BOB's that will compete for Best in Show? I'm going to have go and straw poll my nondoggie friends and relatives again. The number is not important. It only takes one to create the message.. Any more than one is just added strength of message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Ooo that Bulldog in the vid is gorgeous! won a lot of hearts with his win, with no screams about being exaggerated. Heh, you must have been on the wrong forum, one I am on was very riled up about that dog panting and shuffling his way around the ring. The only other forum I'm on, is an international Tibbie list. Mainly really good breeders who are very health conscious about their dogs, and there was only congratulations for Malachy winning at Westminster. And selected media that I read, like the New York Times, reported positively about him. So, you're right, DD, I didn't see that there was another side to the USA public reaction story on Malachy. Thanks for telling me. Edited March 10, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well you know when anyone tried to say anything about that they were slammed dunked on this forum - shut everyone up quick smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Do you mean when this was still a purebred forum, and there were numerous pure-bred-dog breeders to give an opinion? And, when you Steve, were in favour of purebred dogs, and not mongrels? No one could be bothered any more. :laugh: If the KC wants to slam a few nails in the coffin lid, it is not for me to naysay them. When the best of breed is a crock, it doesn't say much for the dogs that best of breed beat, does it? What a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The BVA canine eye scheme (presumably what previous posters mean by an "eye certificate") does NOT assess lid issues when deciding when to issue an eye cert. If a dog has entropion or ectropion, this may be noted on the certificate, but the dog can still get an eye cert. It is therefore perfectly possible for these dogs to have an eye cert, but still have ectropion. http://www.bva.co.uk/canine_health_schemes/eye_scheme.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Do you mean when this was still a purebred forum, and there were numerous pure-bred-dog breeders to give an opinion? And, when you Steve, were in favour of purebred dogs, and not mongrels? That sounds nasty, Jed,and certainly not what I thought the community here was like. Steve is not in favour of breeding mongrels, as you purport. Steve has a lot of good input to contribute and IMO she does. She can open eyes up to seeing things from different angles and not just from one sided points of view. She has foreseen stuff that others didn't. And she does get shut down very quickly. Don't see the point of that. She makes some very valid points and it is interesting to read all contributions. That is why DOL has been so popular over the years. Edited March 10, 2012 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Well you know when anyone tried to say anything about that they were slammed dunked on this forum - shut everyone up quick smart There was a good discussion on DOL about the development of the Pekingese breed. With interesting references to the original 'standard' set down by the Chinese Empress for the specific household lifestyle ]that the dogs were to lead. The processes at the Westminster Show didn't disqualify Malachy for any feature that would have impeded his health or functioning.....within such a lifestyle. Which was why I was curious (& may never know), what feature of the Crufts Pekingese was seen by an examining vet to fall into at category. Edited March 10, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog_fan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well you know when anyone tried to say anything about that they were slammed dunked on this forum - shut everyone up quick smart There was a good discussion on DOL about the development of the Pekingese breed. With interesting references to the original 'standard' set down by the Chinese Empress for the specific household lifestyle ]that the dogs were to lead. The processes at the Westminster Show didn't disqualify Malachy for any feature that would have impeded his health or functioning.....within such a lifestyle. Which was why I was curious (& may never know), what feature of the Crufts Pekingese was seen by an examining vet to fall into at category. We expect different things from dogs in these modern times. Probably different from a Chinese Empress I'll wager. We really do expect dogs to be healthy and to be able to come on a walk with us and to be able to see properly and to not need to be carried everywhere. We have modern appliances that keep our feet and beds warm so I think dogs don't need to do that any more, although mine still want that job :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 I think the most important reaction is that of the UK general public and there's been little reaction at all from what I can see. The Guardian, for instance, didn't really care cos they were having too much of a good time ... http://guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/srDYGHNAYGIHe3RtcOrYA_w/view.m?id=15&gid=lifeandstyle/2012/mar/08/crufts-2012-day-one-live-blog&cat=lifeandstyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Do you mean when this was still a purebred forum, and there were numerous pure-bred-dog breeders to give an opinion? And, when you Steve, were in favour of purebred dogs, and not mongrels? That sounds nasty, Jed,and certainly not what I thought the community here was like. Steve is not in favour of breeding mongrels, as you purport. Steve has a lot of good input to contribute and IMO she does. She can open eyes up to seeing things from different angles and not just from one sided points of view. She has foreseen stuff that others didn't. And she does get shut down very quickly. Don't see the point of that. She makes some very valid points and it is interesting to read all contributions. That is why DOL has been so popular over the years. And it would be helpful for all partipants not to turn an interesting thread into it being about the MDBA because those threads disappear, as we all know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Do you mean when this was still a purebred forum, and there were numerous pure-bred-dog breeders to give an opinion? And, when you Steve, were in favour of purebred dogs, and not mongrels? That sounds nasty, Jed,and certainly not what I thought the community here was like. Steve is not in favour of breeding mongrels, as you purport. Steve has a lot of good input to contribute and IMO she does. She can open eyes up to seeing things from different angles and not just from one sided points of view. She has foreseen stuff that others didn't. And she does get shut down very quickly. Don't see the point of that. She makes some very valid points and it is interesting to read all contributions. That is why DOL has been so popular over the years. And it would be helpful for all partipants not to turn an interesting thread into it being about the MDBA because those threads disappear, as we all know. You're the one that brought that up, Sheridan . I'm talking about people contributing to the thread with view points, some different and some with different slants on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Well you know when anyone tried to say anything about that they were slammed dunked on this forum - shut everyone up quick smart There was a good discussion on DOL about the development of the Pekingese breed. With interesting references to the original 'standard' set down by the Chinese Empress for the specific household lifestyle ]that the dogs were to lead. The processes at the Westminster Show didn't disqualify Malachy for any feature that would have impeded his health or functioning.....within such a lifestyle. Which was why I was curious (& may never know), what feature of the Crufts Pekingese was seen by an examining vet to fall into at category. We expect different things from dogs in these modern times. Probably different from a Chinese Empress I'll wager. We really do expect dogs to be healthy and to be able to come on a walk with us and to be able to see properly and to not need to be carried everywhere. ) So, there's a generic creature called a 'dog' where each one is to do exactly the same tasks? Like there's a standard distance & pace, called a 'walk' in which there will be no differences among breeds? Have you read the 'standards' description by the Empress & its link to a reasonable lifestyle for a mainly indoor companion dog? Have you read the interviews with Malachy's handler/co-owner where he, tongue in cheek, describes how Malachy trains like the 'athlete' that he is? And the extent he describes for Malachy's daily walks? Exactly the same, as I give our tibbies daily. Interestingly, the handler/co-owner now says that Malachy will retire from showing, to 'chase squirrels'. Our tibbies don't chase anything. So M the Peke will be one up on them. I understand there's different tasks from different breeds. We moved to pet tibbies as we approached retirement age, as a dog that would match a changed lifestyle. Before that, we had working breeds like BCs & shelties which, in length of walking & 'interests', matched a more active lifestyle. Do you have an understanding that there's only one lifestyle into which a dog with generic traits must fit in? Edited March 10, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Do you mean when this was still a purebred forum, and there were numerous pure-bred-dog breeders to give an opinion? And, when you Steve, were in favour of purebred dogs, and not mongrels? That sounds nasty, Jed,and certainly not what I thought the community here was like. Steve is not in favour of breeding mongrels, as you purport. Steve has a lot of good input to contribute and IMO she does. She can open eyes up to seeing things from different angles and not just from one sided points of view. She has foreseen stuff that others didn't. And she does get shut down very quickly. Don't see the point of that. She makes some very valid points and it is interesting to read all contributions. That is why DOL has been so popular over the years. And it would be helpful for all partipants not to turn an interesting thread into it being about the MDBA because those threads disappear, as we all know. You're the one that brought that up, Sheridan . I'm talking about people contributing to the thread with view points, some different and some with different slants on them. Very disingenuous, Erny. Back to our scheduled programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Where are all these blind legless Pekes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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