Debarking

[twodoggies2001]

Yes we could, but owners of entire bitches would have to keep the bitch home during her season.

That is all.

Agreed, but I'm afraid that not all owners are responsible. We've come across bitches in season at the park, and that's not fair on the bitch or any of the dogs. People either just don't think or care.

[pebbles]

Read what was written! It was stated that about keeping entire dogs secure so they couldn't get to entire bitches. If we all chose not to desex then nobody could let their animals romp in the park. It's not getting more ridiculous by the minute

(Can't do the 'quote' thingy)

Bitches are in season on an average of twice a year. The rest of the time the dogs couldn't care less. I have an entire dog and an entire bitch sitting beside me right now and I can assure you there's no funny business going on. Actually the dog is snoring his head off lol.

[WoofnHoof]

No, sorry, WoofnHoof, I wasn't refering to any post in particular. I haven't checked but I don't think the poor original OP has been back. All he/she wanted to know was if debarking would harm the dog and there was this long thread about training, rehoming etc. Obviously this is an older person with an old dog. Moving into a retirement village, leaving your home and probably friends is hard enough without making the person feel they aren't doing the right thing by their companion. Circumstances must come into it. Get the dog debarked and live out the years together. Ok rant over lol.

Ah ok cool no worries :) I agree I think the ideal situation is that the OP gets to keep their dog without the stress of worrying about its barking disturbing the neighbours.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

Note : I'm Not against desexing and i know there is more then just health risks and unwanted puppies as reasons to desex such as behavioral and so on. And not a personal attack.

but your statement is a little contradicting.

You state that your dogs a desexed because 1 safety i assume you mean health wise. Its a preventative measure only that your dog may have health problems if it isn't desexed. Many dogs have lived healthy lives without desexing probably as many who got ill from not being desexed. I personally find the health argument in desexing invalid. You never know if you have helped the dog avoid health problems or just put it through an unnecessary operation (regarding only health).

2ndly which is the part I find contradicting you desexed your dogs to prevent unwanted litters. Couldn't you just do everything to make sure your dogs (male) are secure and can't get to someone else's female on heat or in the case of your female secure her to prevent unwanted males including your own from getting to her instead of putting your dogs through the procedure.

I own both sexes undesexed and I managed to not have unwanted litters as I know many others do.

Yes desexing is responsible not contesting that but it is just a easier way of controlling your own dogs as you put debarking is.

Personally I find both desexing and de-barking can be put in both categories elective and Necessary pending on individual circumstance and reason.

You say you desexed your dogs so they won't get pregnant/impregnate another dog....I could say that the reason you did that was because you couldn't be bothered keeping your dogs secure/safe and took the easy way out by desexing....the same way you're saying owners can't be bothered to stop barking and take the easy way out by debarking.

Quite contradictory.

I know it is contradictory. I also meant safety as in keeping the dog safe, if I was referring to the supposed health benefits I would have said that. The reason I had Harley desexed initially was because I was hoping it would help settle him down through a reduction in hormones. Bella was desexed because I didn't want to deal with mess, other dogs trying to get into our yard (not good when one of mine is DA)or Bella trying to get out (she is a Houdini). I could quite easily deal with her going into season, we did it before she was spayed, twice. We have a dog run which she could have stayed in, but it's not really fair on her to be separated from Harley for 3 weeks when every other day they play and spend it together.

My dogs were never going to use their reproductive organs ever, so why would I keep them? A dog will always bark, why remove it. I understand some dogs will bark out of habit and that is a little harder to fix. I've had this exact debate with another person, although it was desexing verse ear cropping/docking. Lol no one is ever going to win it :)

I really can't understand some people. So you would suggest rehoming a barker? What happens when the new owner gets fed up with the barking? Some breeds are 'barkers', I've got one here, yes he stops when told but the next noise and away he goes again. I do draw the line at night barking and my guys are inside overnight. Fortunately I live where barking isn't a problem but if circumstances changed then he would be debarked. Have always had entire dogs and bitches, don't believe in putting any animal through operations which aren't necessary but debarking would be done rather than lose a lifelong companion.

If some breeds are barkers, why is that breed trait not taken into consideration before the breed is selected. Especially if you live in a high density residential area where people are going to complain if it is continuous. Some breeds just aren't suited to suburban life unless they have a dedicated owner who is willing to put time and effort into keeping the dog stimulated mentally and physically worked.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes we could, but owners of entire bitches would have to keep the bitch home during her season.

That is all.

Agreed, but I'm afraid that not all owners are responsible. We've come across bitches in season at the park, and that's not fair on the bitch or any of the dogs. People either just don't think or care.

A lot of people don't even use dog parks, me included, due to attacks, so what's your point? My dogs can't be happy because they don't go to the dog park?

[twodoggies2001]

Yes we could, but owners of entire bitches would have to keep the bitch home during her season.

That is all.

Agreed, but I'm afraid that not all owners are responsible. We've come across bitches in season at the park, and that's not fair on the bitch or any of the dogs. People either just don't think or care.

A lot of people don't even use dog parks, me included, due to attacks, so what's your point? My dogs can't be happy because they don't go to the dog park?

Well I use dog parks all the time and it looks from where I stand, so do a lot of people in my area. We have never been in a situation where there has been an attack. My point is yes, my dogs would not be happy if they don't go. You do what suits you, and I'll do what suits me and my dogs. It's just the way they are brought up. It's our quality time together. Maybe you live on the wrong side of town?

[Dame Aussie]

I also think people are still ignoring the fact that the dog can still bark and still makes a noise. Just not as loud.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes we could, but owners of entire bitches would have to keep the bitch home during her season.

That is all.

Agreed, but I'm afraid that not all owners are responsible. We've come across bitches in season at the park, and that's not fair on the bitch or any of the dogs. People either just don't think or care.

A lot of people don't even use dog parks, me included, due to attacks, so what's your point? My dogs can't be happy because they don't go to the dog park?

Well I use dog parks all the time and it looks from where I stand, so do a lot of people in my area. We have never been in a situation where there has been an attack. My point is yes, my dogs would not be happy if they don't go. You do what suits you, and I'll do what suits me and my dogs. It's just the way they are brought up. It's our quality time together. Maybe you live on the wrong side of town?

:laugh: Yeah that's right, blame me for where I live for my dog being attacked by some idiots aggressive dog. Nice.

I think you will find that a lot of people, in all kinds of areas (shock horror), don't use dog parks for all kinds of different reasons and have dogs that do things like obedience, agility and herding with other dogs instead.

Also I would remind you that I never judged you for using them or said that your dogs would be happy if they didn't go.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Aussie3

[Angeluca]

the last 2 pages of this thread had me in stitches seriously!

twodoggies I got no idea where your statement comes from If you mean like male dogs being entire and dominant and stuff that comes down to training, recall and socialization things that should be done before going to an off lead park and sometimes can't controlled by desexing.

Jade everything your saying is contradictory every reason you state for desexing could have been prevented by training or choice before buying a dog. If you have a male dog why buy a female when you know prior to purchase you'd have to do elective surgery on her cause they couldn't play for six weeks a year or visa versa. Or why buy dogs if your fences aren't high enough these are the same as asking why someone would buy a dog they MIGHT bark a lot. You don't know how the OP and this dog came to be or how long they have been together. You don't know where she lived prior to having to move and you don't know why she has to move. But the fact is she does. And to keep her friend this elective procedure which is less stressful and less harmful in every way compared to desexing (assuming done by vet) . It Could arguably be more important then desexing as a preventative or management procedure. i think it was said it was a 10 yr old dog ( if not sorry) if it doesn't go with it's owner what happens to it?

[zeebie]

I know this is dragging up an old post but it just makes me so irate when I find people who want their dogs debarked "just because" they do not want them to bark and be a nuiscence in their household!

And to think there are vets who will do this procedure on puppies without any valid reason - shame, shame, shame, I would like to take an implement to them as well.

I currently have 2 dogs, have had multiple working dogs on a property in past, and varying breeds, NOT ONE single dog has EVER been a problematic barker and this has been achieved with consistent training to STOP the learned behaviour before it starts, that is unnecessary barking, my method has simply been to correct the dog from a very early age if it barks just a stern voice command 'argh' as soon as dog stops, looks at me it is rewarded. As they got older 1 - 2 barks permissable, after that a call to heel and if correct response, reward.

So now I have 2 very quite unobtusive dogs who alert me to door bell/phone ring/and all other household equipment beeps with a seek me and nose or paw touch with so much enthusiasm and the only reward they get is a big pat and my voice letting them know 'job well done' :)

[Christina]

It seems the answer to the original post is that it is not so painful, uncomfortable or devastating for a dog to be debarked by a vet.

When I first heard of this procedure my instinctive reaction was how awful & how cruel it sounds.

Then thinking about the alternatives, when all else has failed, they are seizure by the council, neighbours that hate both of you, prosecution & death for the dog.

That is more cruel.

Check obscene Victorian legislation first & go ahead.

[asal]

My step grandmother in law is a registered breeder and she has de-barked some of her dogs. It is a much safer operation that I think it use to be. The dogs that have been de-barked still make a noise, but it is more like a small cough more than anything. I find it sad that they can't bark though.

The dogs are still barking they are just quieter, why is that sad? They still yap their heads off.

Sad is having an irate neighbour on your doorstep or the local law officers insisting you dispose of your dogs.

I used to be dead against it but after looking after a whole kennel of them when a friend ended up in ICU after a heart attack. (23 of em) I was astonished. they can bark all right, the difference is it cant carry for blocks only metrs. the dogs are happy, can yap all they want or be quiet all they want, and no one is annoyed, I ended up with 7 of them when she was not well enough to have more than a few back, friends took most of them but had to laugh when the carry cages of the ones allocated to me by the other friends were all the biters...

I remember the reason now they were all done, a neighbour had a baby and without even saying a word to my friend lodged simultanious complaints with the council, rspca and animal welfare. to have all three knock on your door the same day had a pretty bad effect on her all right, to keep her dogs and peace with the neighbour they were all debarked. frankly i doubt it was coincidence the heart attack occurred only weeks later, I for one think it was the stress of the all out attack by the neighbour with absolutley no warning they weere unhappy about any noise comming from the dogs, they had been neighbours for 5 years without a complaint made till that day when all guns arrived blazing.

Edited December 10, 2012 by asal

[oakway]

Now where did I read that articule, ahhhhh yes on my home page.........it said neighbour stabbed over barking dog.

What a pitty the dog hadn't been de-barked.

[mita]

It seems the answer to the original post is that it is not so painful, uncomfortable or devastating for a dog to be debarked by a vet.

When I first heard of this procedure my instinctive reaction was how awful & how cruel it sounds.

Then thinking about the alternatives, when all else has failed, they are seizure by the council, neighbours that hate both of you, prosecution & death for the dog.

That is more cruel.

I was the same, Christina, when all I knew about 'debarking' was the word!

Then I came across a couple of tibbies, who had the 'sexiest' barks... without all those high pitches that make sound carry. Actually very pleasant to the ear.

I assumed they must have been born like that (shades of Lady Gaga's song!).

I remarked to the owners what lovely 'sexy' barks their dogs had. Jokingly I said I'd like a sexy voice, like theirs.

They fell about laughing & told me I'd have to get debarked first. Couldn't believe it!

They told me the name of the highly-skilled & experienced vet who carried it out....in accordance with Q'ld law, which is remarkably humane & sensible on this question. Means that the barking must've caused a problem where people complain, all other avenues must've been tried but it persists....& working thro' the process is up to the professional decision-making of the vet.

[Mystiqview]

Another thing to consider:

In QLD while it was/is mostly illegal, one vet surgery does do a partial debarking. The dog can still bark but as others have said, it is not has loud or pitched as if the dog had a normal bark.

I know from a regulatory officer perspective dealing with barking dog complaints, that some people find the "husky" bark just as offensive as the normal bark. From feedback, it is generally because most who are complaining about the barking are also aware of when a dog is debarked and like some on this forum are against it.

I have considered debarking one of mine. I am not against or for it per sae. I can see where in some circumstances an situations it maybe the best or last option open to a person.

Just something else to consider. Although in saying this, if you are in a state/area where it is more tolerated, you may not have the same complaint/objection/feedback as what I have outlined above.

[OSoSwift]

I have recently looked after a dog that I am convinced has been debarked. HIs bark was not high pitched, not annoying at all and he didn't wake me up yapping. I had to go oh he is actually barking. He was still loud enough to be heard but it was not annoying at all.

[JulesP]

I also think people are still ignoring the fact that the dog can still bark and still makes a noise. Just not as loud.

I know a dog that was debarked. The noise she makes is just as loud as a bark but is a horrid high pitched squeal now. It is certainly not preferable to a normal bark.

[Crisovar]

I also think people are still ignoring the fact that the dog can still bark and still makes a noise. Just not as loud.

I know a dog that was debarked. The noise she makes is just as loud as a bark but is a horrid high pitched squeal now. It is certainly not preferable to a normal bark.

That is also not typical of a dog that has been debarked :)

[MarieEvans]

Debarking ..it is AFAIK only to be performed after all other methods fail, and the dog is at risk of being put to sleep because of teh barking which can not be stopped by training/management means.

I've read that debarking has been thought of being an act that's quite harsh for dogs, which is why it's a last resort. From what I read, it said that it is the nature of dogs to bark which is why debarking would be removing something that is natural to them. Maybe your dog has problems? Have you gone to the vet for a check up?

[Are You Serious Jo]

It doesn't stop the act of barking though, the dog still can do this behaviour and they don't understand that they aren't as loud. It's not like binding the mouth closed!