Acid Reflux

[Erny]

I don't know if Mandela has this - I suspect it is the case though. I wasn't aware of the label until more recently.

Until I get to have it checked, diagnosed, etc., my curiosity is peaked as to whether there are others out there who have experienced this problem, what the treatments have been and whether those treatment/s have been successful.

Not to rule out Veterinary treatments, I'm of course interested in holistic treatments as well - what they were and as per the last, whether those treatment/s have been successful.

For the time being, I've backed off on the Plaque-Off as that increases the acidic value of the dog's saliva. I'm only presuming it increases the acidic value of the gastric juices as well - which might be great for breaking down food, but presumably not so great if your dog has acidic reflux issues. (???)

I intend to take this further - assuming there's nothing simple and safe as far as remedies or treatments are concerned. But I'd like to arm myself with a bit more knowledge based on other people's experience with this condition.

Cheers in advance.

Erny

Edited June 25, 2012 by Erny

[Staffyluv]

We used mylanta or Ollie and then went onto carafate (vet script supplied by chemist much cheaper)

He also used a prescription called omprezole (acimax brand from memory) when it got worse before he passed away...

[Erny]

Thanks Staffyluv.

IF acid reflux is what Mandela is experiencing, I don't think it is too bad . There have been a few/several times I've seen him give 'sick burps'. There's been the infrequent and irregular vomit (of nothing in particular, mostly grass-forced) and generally in the mornings, if it is going to occur at all. I think he has been a bit better since I have given him meals in the first thing of morning and also last thing at night. (Mind you, this is a bit difficult because of needing to give his thyroid meds at least 1/2 hour before food or 3 hours after .... :rolleyes: .) I generally try to make these 1st and last meals the ZD food, but he tends to turn his nose up to them when he is feeling better rather than worse. Can't say I blame him. It smells like wet cardboard and I can only imagine it would taste the same. But I'm thinking that the ulcers on his gums (which remain, but are a bit better - they go up and down, but I think each time down, it might be getting less and less) could be a symptom of acid reflux. Mandela has, for a long time now, been of the habit of laying as close up to a wall or other vertical feature so that his head and body is a bit on the raised side (save for when he thinks it might be ok if he sneaks up onto my warm water-bed :roll eyes: .... but maybe that's worth a bit of reflux as far as he's concerned, :laugh: ). I've noticed in more recent times he's sleeping more upright even more frequently. Whether this is just "him" or not, I don't know, but I'm inclined to take notice of it. Mind you, this could be a symptom of his spondylosis ..... sometimes it is difficult to separate out one symptom of one condition from another.

I have been doing some reading up and notice that liquorice tincture is something good to use for irritable bowel and/or acid reflux. Some other things it can be used for topically as well, which I didn't realise (eg. Flea bite allergy). Have no idea of the effectiveness and success rates, but I'm all for something natural that lacks side-effects before jumping to GA's and/or stronger medications. For anyone who is interested, the link to the article I'm reading up on it at is :

Whole Dog Journal - Licorice

But I will certainly keep what you've mentioned in the back of my mind and glad that it is a store here for my future reference.

If anyone has tried liquorice root or liquorice tincture, I'd appreciate feedback on it.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Erny

[tlc]

Erny, I don't know if it's the same thing or not but my oldest (6) had this thing where he does a small amount of yellowish vomit, just a small bit of liquid about the size of a 50 cent piece. I was telling someone one day about it (can't for the life of me remember who) and they said well he must be hungry, which at the time i thought was odd as Cooper has always been the type of dog to be fussy with his food and getting him to eat had always been a battle. Mine usually only get fed their main meal of a night unless its a day where they are having a RMB or Chicken wing etc. So I started feeding Cooper part of his daily allowance in the morning, well my OH does when he gets up for work and what did I know, no more vomits at all, as soon as he started morning feeds the vomiting ceased all together which was really great. The other thing is if mine are ever a bit off colour I give around 7 days worth of inner health plus, one a day, the vet and the pharmacist both said it has the same reaction in dogs as it does in humans and if there is any upset in the gut it can help with neutralising it back to how it should be.

I have to be careful with Cooper and his food if he has too much he brings it back up so its much better for him to have two feeds a day, also when he was younger I stopped giving him chicken frames as a day later he would bring up perfectly formed vertebrae from the chicken in a little pile. He can have wings and necks with no problem. Not sure this has been at all helpful just thought I'd add my 5c.

The liquorice root article is very interesting!

Edited June 25, 2012 by tlc

[cowanbree]

Cowan with all his throat issues suffers from this. He gets Losex daily to reduce the amount of stomach acid. We use Carafate on a bad day, crushed in 5mls of water to coat and protect the throat and on a really bad day he gets anti nausea medication that i can't quite recall the name of. His is due to medical misadventure.

[Erny]

Thanks for the info :).

tlc - yes, I have found it is better to feed smaller and more frequent meals including first thing in morning and last thing at night as well. Hard to juggle it all in when certain meds need to be administered outside of meal-times too. But never mind .... I'll sort something :). I'll keep in mind the Inner Health Plus. I'm fairly certain he's been on that before, when under the care of a naturopath. Difficulty back then is that some things have changed in so far as symptoms are concerned and also that he was on so many different things at the one time it is hard to know what was doing what (in terms of good and also of bad). I'll keep it in mind though :).

Cowanbree - what was the "medical misadventure", if you don't mind me asking? Want to know particularly because I'd hate to think I'm pointing in the same direction and wondering if I'm headed towards a mistake as well.

[CavsRcute]

My girl has 10mg of Losec once a day.

The vet gives me a scipt and I buy it at the cheap pharmacy

Works very well for her.

[cowanbree]

Cowanbree - what was the "medical misadventure", if you don't mind me asking? Want to know particularly because I'd hate to think I'm pointing in the same direction and wondering if I'm headed towards a mistake as well.

Cowan had a bowel obstruction 2yrs ago with complications and peritonitis that resulted in him having 3 very long surgeries with a week of vomiting in amongst that. The combination of an extended period of vomiting and the stomach acid burning his throat while lying flat under aesthetic for long periods of time have damaged not only his throat but also the valve that stops the stomach acid going back into the throat. He was fed via a stomach tube for a very long period of time and gradually we have him eating liquids. He will never eat solid food again and I do have to manage the stomach acid issues esp not feeding within 3hrs of bed time but he is ok now.

Really hope yours is not anything like Cowan as it was extremely difficult to get it under control.

Losex is great and really helps with this issue

[Erny]

Thanks for the explanation, Cowan. Fortunately (I hope), Mandela's acid reflux (assuming that's what the problem is) is not that bad.

What is the chemical base of "Losex"?

I was thinking of trying something fairly natural that is unlikely or won't have any side-effects. If it works by ridding him of the symptoms I'm seeing, or at least improving them, then I'll know I'm on the right track. I guess what I'm trying to avoid is the use of GA and for that matter, a throat scope, for fear of either making the situation worse or creating the situation in the first place. The gum ulcers showed up a few weeks after the first and only GA he's ever had. Maybe that's coincidence .......... ?

Edited June 26, 2012 by Erny

[bonny_beagle]

Thanks for the explanation, Cowan. Fortunately (I hope), Mandela's acid reflux (assuming that's what the problem is) is not that bad.

What is the chemical base of "Losex"?

I was thinking of trying something fairly natural that is unlikely or won't have any side-effects. If it works by ridding him of the symptoms I'm seeing, or at least improving them, then I'll know I'm on the right track. I guess what I'm trying to avoid is the use of GA and for that matter, a throat scope, for fear of either making the situation worse or creating the situation in the first place. The gum ulcers showed up a few weeks after the first and only GA he's ever had. Maybe that's coincidence .......... ?

Losec is omeprazole, which is a proton pump inhibitor. If you google proton pump inhibitor you should get a thorough explanation but it reduces the amount of acid produced by the stomach, rather than neutralising the acid already there (which is how mylanta etc works).

[Erny]

Thanks. A Wiki link showed this :

Adverse effects

Short-term

In general, proton pump inhibitors are well tolerated, and the incidence of short-term adverse effects is relatively uncommon. The range and occurrence of adverse effects are similar for all of the proton pump inhibitors, though they have been reported more frequently with omeprazole. This may be due to its longer availability and, hence, clinical experience. Common adverse effects include: headache (in 5.5% of users in clinical trials[5]), nausea, diarrhea, abdominal pain, fatigue, and dizziness.[6] Long-term use is associated with hypomagnesemia.[7]

Because the body uses gastric acid to release B12 from food particles, decreased vitamin B12 absorption may occur with long-term use of proton-pump inhibitors and may lead to Vitamin B12 deficiency.[6][8]

Infrequent adverse effects include rash, itch, flatulence, constipation, anxiety, and depression. In rare cases, PPI use may cause ‘idiosyncratic’ reactions such as erythema multiforme, pancreatitis, Stevens–Johnson syndrome, and acute interstitial nephritis.[9]

It has been observed that gastric acid suppression, using H2-receptor antagonists and proton pump inhibitors, is associated with an increased risk of community-acquired pneumonia. It is suspected that acid suppression results in insufficient elimination of pathogenic organisms. Therefore, it has been suggested that patients at higher risk of pneumonia should be prescribed proton pump inhibitors only at lower doses and only when necessary.[10]

PPIs have been shown to raise risk of Clostridium difficile infection by 1.7X with once daily use and 2.4X with more than once daily use.[11][12] The risk can be minimized by judicious short term prescriptions.[13]

Don't quite get the parts I've bolded though - seem to be a bit contradictory. And must admit I'm a bit concerned about the "common" side effects they do report. But thank you - I will keep this in mind. I'm following through on the liquorice root to see if that might be at least the first step I should or could venture to without much in the way of risk of any or at least a good deal fewer of the common adverse effects.

[bonny_beagle]

Short-term adverse effects uncommon means most people take them with no side effects and they are generally well tolerated. They are some of the most commonly prescribed drugs in Aust and the world, millions of people take them, and many people take them for years and decades continuously. There has been some concern recently about the incidence of liver problems, but given how many people are taking them, they are still very well tolerated as all medications have potential side effects.

Common adverse effects - that term is a statistical term. Adverse effects (side effects) are listed as either rare, uncommon or common based on the percentage of patients in which they occur. From memory common side effects occur in at least 1% of patients. Does that make sense?

That info you have is all from people as well. Adverse effects in animals are usually only signs (things you can see or measure such as rash) rather than symptoms (such as headache).

[trifecta]

My partner suffers from GORD. He has been prescribed Losec & Somac, both made him dizzy and/or gave him headaches. He has found a natural solution in watermelon. It is the first thing he eats (or drinks) upon getting up in the morning & when he feels a reflux attack coming on. We don't know why it works but he swears by it & has had less scarring of the oesophagus since he has upped his consumption. Our dogs love it too, & line up for their share as soon as they hear him crunching :)

[Erny]

Short-term adverse effects uncommon means most people take them with no side effects and they are generally well tolerated. They are some of the most commonly prescribed drugs in Aust and the world, millions of people take them, and many people take them for years and decades continuously. There has been some concern recently about the incidence of liver problems, but given how many people are taking them, they are still very well tolerated as all medications have potential side effects.

Common adverse effects - that term is a statistical term. Adverse effects (side effects) are listed as either rare, uncommon or common based on the percentage of patients in which they occur. From memory common side effects occur in at least 1% of patients. Does that make sense?

That info you have is all from people as well. Adverse effects in animals are usually only signs (things you can see or measure such as rash) rather than symptoms (such as headache).

Thanks BB.I think what you are saying is that they are saying "Of the un-common side effects these are the ones that are the most common". Am I on the right track?

Yes - I realise it is the people one but couldn't find much else. And realise that it would be a bit difficult to tell if my dog had a headache with any outward symptom.

I've begun him on the liquorice treatment. Too early to tell yet. He moved around a lot less last night so that's a plus. But we had had an enormous day so I'd suggest he was humongously tired. Just watching and waiting atm ....

Hey Trifecta! Great tip regards the watermelon. From memory, Mandela enjoyed sharing my watermelon during previous summer months. I can't remember whether I noticed any change (better or worse) to anything as a result and certainly back then he didn't have the gum ulcers that have been a big focus of mine for finding their cause and ultimately something to fix them. Will keep that little gem of an idea in mind :D. Thanks :).

Edited June 28, 2012 by Erny

[bonny_beagle]

Yep, so while 95% of people who use the medication may experience not adverse effects, of those that do, the adverse effects listed as common, are those that people are most likely to experience.

Orabase is good for ulcers. (from the pharmacy)