Pit Bull Blitz A Losing Battle For Councils

[GeckoTree]

http://www.heraldsun...x-1226431214225

THE Government is losing the legal dogfight to rid Victoria of pit bulls.

Councils have been beaten in more than half of appeals by owners trying to save their pets.

About 150 pit bulls have been put down since "restricted breed" laws were introduced last September, and another 20 are in pounds awaiting destruction, a source told the Herald Sun.

Despite a moral objection to destroying pit bulls - it "should be the deed of the dog and not the breed of the dog" - the RSPCA, which refuses to give evidence at appeals, is being attacked by angry owners for putting down some of the animals.

Animal services manager Helen Cocks said the society opposed "breed-specific legislation".

"It is extremely sad that dogs that are deemed to meet these new breed standards under the law, but would otherwise be good canine citizens, may be put to sleep," she said.

Some vets have refused to destroy dogs on the grounds of breed alone, Australian Veterinary Association Victorian president Dr Susan Maastricht said.

Editorial: Tighten leash on these dogs

VCAT hearings have led to Facebook threats against council animal inspectors and a vow by one senior vet to never again give evidence.

A four to six-month delay in the VCAT process forces councils to spend $27.50 a day to keep animals on death row, adding up to $3000-$5000 a dog.

Councils seeking to destroy dogs they assess as pit bulls have lost six of 11 VCAT appeals.

Councils rely on physical measurements, leading to a contest between expert evidence from both sides.

"Pit bulls and pit bull-type dogs have lost their right to exist in Victoria," Agriculture Minister Peter Walsh said.

"We make no apology for the tough actions we have taken to protect Victorians, particularly children, from attacks like the one that tragically killed Ayen Chol (the four-year-old whose death last August helped prompt the new laws)."

American Pit Bull Terrier Club of Australia secretary Bonnie Norton said neighbours were phoning the dangerous dogs hotline, resulting in councils searching properties.

"They are coming out and taking much-loved family pets that have done nothing wrong," she said.

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And the opinion editorial below

LAWS condemning pit bull and pit bull-crosses have come rushing back to bite the Baillieu Government.

People who love their dogs are defending them in court and winning more cases than they are losing.

The Government must therefore redraft what is difficult, but necessary, legislation.

No one can argue against the need to safeguard the public from dangerous dogs, such as the pit bull-cross that killed four-year-old Ayen Chol last year.

The dog ran into the family home and mauled the girl in front of her horrified mother. The attack followed other incidents involving pit bull and pit bull-crosses, but the same problem that prevented such dogs from being put down then is again preventing successful prosecutions against their owners.

When is a pit bull a pit bull? Owners argued their dogs were more cross than pit bull, and attempts to set new standards to identify the dogs are failing.

Dog owners, are often incensed at the actions of council inspectors who have seized dogs they suspect of being pit bulls.

The owners have argued successfully at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal to save them.

Some vets, unwilling to destroy healthy dogs, are refusing to carry out council orders.

Restricted breed laws have seen some 150 dogs put down, with perhaps 20 still on council pound "death rows".

Owners argue it should be "the deed of the dog, not the breed of the dog" that determines their fate.

This is the sort of emotional language that inevitably surrounds cases involving a much-loved family pet, a dog used for hunting or one kept because its owners like fierce and intimidating dogs.

The flaw in the deed-versus-breed argument is that someone has to be savaged or threatened by a dog in front of witnesses before authorities can act. The Government needs to jerk their leash. Tighten the law and get rid of dogs that in rare cases kill, but often maim. There is no moral argument for keeping them.

I am sorry but I just think Victoria is run buy a bunch of people who in days past would have been placed in a mental institution.

Edited July 22, 2012 by GeckoTree

[melzawelza]

"I am sorry but I just think Victoria is run buy a bunch of people who in days past would have been placed in a mental institution."

Pretty much, GT, pretty much.

I'm getting so tired of these articles, I'm running out of energy with it all. It's just insane.

[GeckoTree]

Ya know I would love to see a serious journo actually do some fair dinkum journalist work on it. And actually put it out there what is going on, because if they are quoting dipshits like peter walsh he may very well have his head up his clacker over the dog that prompted this law. because the truth will come out very soon over breed.

J.

[m-sass]

People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.

If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?

It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??

[huck house]

M-sass , do you even like dogs? Thankfully there are many experts and organizations who will continue informing government , magistrates and the public that the Victorian laws are ineffective , unjust and dangerous .

[melzawelza]

People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.

If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?

It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??

TBH I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you but I'll just make the point that a lot of us rescued our dogs.

I don't support ANYONE breeding pit bulls while BSL exists. And they are my absolute favourite breed.

My belief is that we fight and overturn the laws, then the people passionate about the breed can import new papered stock and start again.

The fact of the matter is this is never going to happen. More people are breeding them now than ever before, as just like anything banned they are a black market item now.

Those dogs who have been brought into the world through no fault of their own deserve a home just as much as any other if they are a nice dog with a good temperament.

You come at BSL from completely the wrong angle and I agree, you don't sound like someone that loves dogs at the end of the day.

[Dame Aussie]

People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.

If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?

It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??

TBH I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you but I'll just make the point that a lot of us rescued our dogs.

I don't support ANYONE breeding pit bulls while BSL exists. And they are my absolute favourite breed.

My belief is that we fight and overturn the laws, then the people passionate about the breed can import new papered stock and start again.

The fact of the matter is this is never going to happen. More people are breeding them now than ever before, as just like anything banned they are a black market item now.

Those dogs who have been brought into the world through no fault of their own deserve a home just as much as any other if they are a nice dog with a good temperament.

You come at BSL from completely the wrong angle and I agree, you don't sound like someone that loves dogs at the end of the day.

Totally agree with all of the above.

[Plan B]

TBH I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you but I'll just make the point that a lot of us rescued our dogs.

I don't support ANYONE breeding pit bulls while BSL exists. And they are my absolute favourite breed.

My belief is that we fight and overturn the laws, then the people passionate about the breed can import new papered stock and start again.

The fact of the matter is this is never going to happen. More people are breeding them now than ever before, as just like anything banned they are a black market item now.

Those dogs who have been brought into the world through no fault of their own deserve a home just as much as any other if they are a nice dog with a good temperament.

You come at BSL from completely the wrong angle and I agree, you don't sound like someone that loves dogs at the end of the day.

+1.

I'm glad you responded so I didn't have to, as I would have wasted a lot more time on the poster. By this and previous comments, I'm absolutely confused why they are spending their time on a dog forum.

[Ronda]

I'm gonna say that m-sass is a troll and gets a kick out of stirring everyone up.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Ronda

[puglvr]

I happen to agree with m-sass to a degree. I don't support the situation as it is now and feel for the people who are fighting for their dog's life just because they look like a pit bull.

However, if the Pitbull is a breed that is not allowed to be imported or bred, and have been so for so many years then why are still around? Why are they still being bred/crossed? Why aren't people kicking up about that? The fact is people breeding them are breaking the law. Why aren't we holding them responsible if tragedies like the Ayen Chol case occur.

Why is it that the flagrant disregard for the law is accepted in some instances and not others?

eg: It is against the law to drink and drive, drive unliscensed and use a mobile phone whilst driving. However normal everyday people do these things and think they are okay. Why is that? It is against the law and people would be up in arms if someone doing any of these were responsible for Ayen's death.

Just food for thought.

[Jumabaar]

I happen to agree with m-sass to a degree. I don't support the situation as it is now and feel for the people who are fighting for their dog's life just because they look like a pit bull.

However, if the Pitbull is a breed that is not allowed to be imported or bred, and have been so for so many years then why are still around? Why are they still being bred/crossed? Why aren't people kicking up about that? The fact is people breeding them are breaking the law. Why aren't we holding them responsible if tragedies like the Ayen Chol case occur.

Why is it that the flagrant disregard for the law is accepted in some instances and not others?

eg: It is against the law to drink and drive, drive unliscensed and use a mobile phone whilst driving. However normal everyday people do these things and think they are okay. Why is that? It is against the law and people would be up in arms if someone doing any of these were responsible for Ayen's death.

Just food for thought.

How do we know they are still being bred? This law is about what a dog LOOKS like. You could prove that it was out of a Great Dane and sired by a Pug but this law is not about parentage, its about how well a random dog fits into a standard- not about stopping Pitbulls being bred.

I think that there are laws that are silly. It is quite clear from the number of cases that are being overturned that this is one of them. The industry experts- AVA, RSPCA and international experts have said that this type of law doesn't work. Unlike research indicating that drink driving and using the mobile phone does increase the risk of an accident. I don't think that drink driving is OK. I also don't think that not socialising your dog, not containing your dog and/or egging your dog is OK- but once again the law does nothing to stop that.

[Sandra777]

However, if the Pitbull is a breed that is not allowed to be imported or bred, and have been so for so many years then why are still around? Why are they still being bred/crossed? Why aren't people kicking up about that? The fact is people breeding them are breaking the law. Why aren't we holding them responsible if tragedies like the Ayen Chol case occur.

I am under the impression it's perfectly legal to breed APBT's in Canberra & NT - unless things have changed recently??

[melzawelza]

However, if the Pitbull is a breed that is not allowed to be imported or bred, and have been so for so many years then why are still around? Why are they still being bred/crossed? Why aren't people kicking up about that? The fact is people breeding them are breaking the law. Why aren't we holding them responsible if tragedies like the Ayen Chol case occur.

I am under the impression it's perfectly legal to breed APBT's in Canberra & NT - unless things have changed recently??

Yep!

Plus, banning things increase demand. It's the wrong kind of demand, but it's demand nonetheless. Shit quality pups that would barely get 100 bucks before the bans now sell for $800-$1000.

[m-sass]

I'm gonna say that m-sass is a troll and gets a kick out of stirring everyone up.

Nothing I have said isn't true, Pitbulls have been restricted for years, have never been a recognised breed and at any time breeds of this status can cop the chop when they are only one step away from a total ban. Pitbull's haven't been overly policed in the past so people get a bit reckless in their thoughts that owning a Pitbull or Pitbull look a like is ok...........bit like the drunk who drives home along the back streets from the pub every night for 10 years and has never seen a cop before along the trusty route, but drink driving is playing with fire like owning a Pitbull look a like, we all have choices and that's my opinion on the matter, it's nothing to do with trolling seeing something differently??.

I wouldn't touch a dog that looked like a Pitbull unless it was a papered pure breed where I could prove what breed it was, not because I don't think a Pitbull isn't a good dog, because I don't want my dog scooped up and euthanised for no fault of it's own. Countries where Wolf hybrids are banned, GSD's and Husky type crossbreeds are vulnerable to seizure if they are a bit Wolfy looking, no differnt to what is happening in Victoria. I don't agree what is happening to innocent dogs is a good thing, it stinks, but the writing has been on the wall for 20 years which to me is fair warning to make better choices.......the Victorian situation is easly avoided by aquiring dogs with a bit more forethought into what you are getting is it not??.

[m-sass]

I happen to agree with m-sass to a degree. I don't support the situation as it is now and feel for the people who are fighting for their dog's life just because they look like a pit bull.

However, if the Pitbull is a breed that is not allowed to be imported or bred, and have been so for so many years then why are still around? Why are they still being bred/crossed? Why aren't people kicking up about that? The fact is people breeding them are breaking the law. Why aren't we holding them responsible if tragedies like the Ayen Chol case occur.

Why is it that the flagrant disregard for the law is accepted in some instances and not others?

eg: It is against the law to drink and drive, drive unliscensed and use a mobile phone whilst driving. However normal everyday people do these things and think they are okay. Why is that? It is against the law and people would be up in arms if someone doing any of these were responsible for Ayen's death.

Just food for thought.

The dog who killed poor little Ayen to project the intensity of hunt, gameness and aggression to perform the deed he did would take an extremely skilled and dedicated owner to control and manage a dog like that, the dog was a landshark unfit for community living and someone did breed it someone who should be held accountable for breeding crap IMHO. The dog in Adelaide the other day who broke his collar and killed the little dog, these things happen, drop the leash, slip on the wet grass, don't latch the gate properly.......who hasn't chased a young dog up the street who shot out between your legs or something, it's life, it happens, but when it does happen and the dog is uncontrollable and dangerously aggressive to innocent people and other animals the gameness is in the dog and someone bred it who needs to be scrutinised WTF are you breeding??.

The BYB structure is a bloody free for all, breed what you like when you like and sell them to who ever you like.........try and buy high drive working GSD, Rott or Malinois capable of defensive training from a dedicated working breeder if you are a moron who wants a dog to intimidate people, breeders of this type of dog won't sell to morons often if you don't know someone to provide a reference you won't get passed the telephone, let alone buy one, well bred dogs of the triats capable of being trained to be defensive by specialist breeders heavily screen where their dogs are going and when do we hear of dogs like this taking people out........never, it's the BYB who breed crap and sell to morons like clockwork frequency, something needs to be done about the source of these dogs for my liking.

[Sheridan]

Shorter m-sass: kill all the mutts.

[Robbi]

m-sass the term "land shark" is hyperbolic and should have NO place in describing any dog behaviours, I hope that you realise that by condeming the Pit Bull to death you are allowing media bias and blatent half truths to win out over common sense and honesty. There are thousands of innocent dogs that are being faced with death due to intolerence and idiocy, as dog lovers we should all fight bsl not support any part of it.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

This is it, relentless disobedience, from dog owners through to councils and individual CO's that don't want to know about it, vets,the RSPCA, etc. If it ain't working and they find it's an uphill battle every step of the way they'll

give up eventually.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Lo Pan

[m-sass]

m-sass the term "land shark" is hyperbolic and should have NO place in describing any dog behaviours, I hope that you realise that by condeming the Pit Bull to death you are allowing media bias and blatent half truths to win out over common sense and honesty. There are thousands of innocent dogs that are being faced with death due to intolerence and idiocy, as dog lovers we should all fight bsl not support any part of it.

The Pitbull has been "regulated" for 20 years which should IMHO generate some caution for people's decision to breed them or breed dogs of Pitbull resemblence. Problem is the breeders of these dogs do what they like, couldn't care less, take no responsibility for the doggy lives they bring into the world in total disregard for how these dogs relate to the law structure or what future they may encounter. The "morons" are the people breeding these dogs as far as I am concerned, no one is forced to breed a Bully X, they make the choice with no thought of the potential consequence of doing so. Anti BSL crusades are really just a "lets all support irresponsible and reckless breeding practices"..........sorry I don't support that, breeders should be accountable for what they produce and think more responsibly about what they are doing??

[Dame Aussie]

Why can't a responsible ethical breeder breed Pit Bulls? You do know they're still allowed in some areas?

Are all the breeders who have ever bred a Pit Bull morons?

You'll probably say they aren't a recognised breed but neither are Koolies (just one example), are all Koolie breeders morons?