bianca.a Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Hi all, I took my 10 month old German Shepherd to the vet today as he has been limping on his front right for a couple of days. The vet wanted to do xrays so I asked him to do hips as sometimes Cooper bunny hops when running around. Well the news is severe hip dysplasia and he has sent the xrays off to Melbourne Vet Specialist Center and we should hear back next week. He is talking at least one Total Hip Replacement. He could not straighten his left leg out for fear that hip would pop out. I have sent an email to the breeder for her info. But I guess at this stage I am just wanting to hear any experience with this in a pup so young. To say I am devastated is to put it mildly. Cooper has had elbow Hygromas since he was 11 weeks old and has had both elbows operated on to put drains in so he hasn't had a 'proper' puupyhood Thanks in advance. Edited March 2, 2013 by bianca.a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 No helpful experience/info ..just a for you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Awww thank you Persephone :) I need that, Coopie is asleep at the moment but I will smooch him from you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 So sorry to hear... But I do know of large breed dogs that have had THR with great quality long lives following-) Here's hoping you have pet insurance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Thank you Xyz, that is encouraging. Yes thankfully as my vet *thinks* it is approx $6000 per hip. 80% back will be a huge help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 What hip scores did his parents have? Of course you can be unlucky and get bad hips from parents with good hips but to get them that bad is unusual. The elbow hygromas are also a very odd thing for a puppy to have and are usually caused by a very heavy dog lying on hard surfaces. I think I would be getting further x-rays of his other joints done before committing to the hip surgery in case he has other joint problems all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Thank you dancinbcs. It has been really odd with the elbows, he was tiny as a pup (much smaller than the average for his age) and I have always kept him lean. He has had xrays of both elbows at 6 months and they were fine. Today his right elbow and shoulder were also xrayed and again fine. His sires elbows and hips are 0:0 0:0 his damns elbows and hips are 1:1 6:2 - I'm guessing that is not so great? Edited August 24, 2012 by bianca.a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Thank you dancinbcs. It has been really odd with the elbows, he was tiny as a pup (much smaller than the average for his age) and I have always kept him lean. He has had xrays of both elbows at 6 months and they were fine. Today his right elbow and shoulder were also xrayed and again fine. His sires elbows and hips are 0:0 0:0 his damns elbows and hips are 1:1 6:2 - I'm guessing that is not so great? Those are perfectly acceptable hip scores and 1:1 elbows are considered ok by many breeders so long as they go to 0:0. My personal preference is for 0:0 elbows but I have a breed that seems much more prone to elbow problems than hips. 0:0 hips to 6:2 is not any sort of risky breeding so it seems that you have just been extremely unlucky with your boy. Sadly it can happen in any breed of dog but especially the large ones. Elbow scores are only graded 1 to 3 for each elbow and it is not advisable to breed with anything with a 2 or 3 on an elbow. Hips are graded from 0 to 53 for each hip so even a score or 6 is considered to be quite low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Thank you so much :) I was sure that I had done my research properly and I do trust the breeder but all night I have been doubting myself. It is just one of those things I guess, I just really hope that the others from the litter are ok. Wishing it was next week already so I know a bit more. Thanks again, you are very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 What hip scores did his parents have? Of course you can be unlucky and get bad hips from parents with good hips but to get them that bad is unusual. The elbow hygromas are also a very odd thing for a puppy to have and are usually caused by a very heavy dog lying on hard surfaces. I think I would be getting further x-rays of his other joints done before committing to the hip surgery in case he has other joint problems all over. I agree. Maybe see monash vets or Michael Bell. They both do xrays of hip and elbows for scoring regularly. They are not bad scores. Not the greatest but under gsdca schemes passes so therefore breedable. Please seek other opinions before committing to the surgery. If he is not in pain and besides sometimes bunny hopping not lame why operate? He may not need it. He may be able to be managedmore conservatively. Good luck and hugs to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogie Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Bianca.a, just want to start by saying I'm so sorry. Our girl is not a GSD she is a Shar Pei but that x-ray could be her hips at 11 months. Issy had to have patella surgery when she was 1, she was x-rayed prior to the surgery and it was discovered she had severe hip displasia. We were advised to go ahead with the knee surgery and to wait and see with regard to the hips, keep her as lean and fit as possible. The hardest part of the recovery from her knee op was keeping her quiet enough, she hated being crated for the extended time even though she was previously very good in her crate for short stretches.She recovered quite well but dislocated her right hip just before she was 2, she went into the ER near us and it was relocated under GA, as soon as she stood the following day it dislocated again. She was transferred to an orthopaedic specialist and we waited an extra day for his partner to return from the US as he was there doing some follow up training on a new titanium hip implant and he felt she might have a better chance with this. She was found not to have enough viable bone for a transplant. The surgeon suggested a femoral head ostectomy in which they remove the top of the femur, I was horrified initially (not because of the cost - she was fully insured) but at the thought of putting her through the surgery and possible longterm outcomes for her in regards to pain and her quality of life. We knew her other hip was as bad and that her other knee was not great either. The specialist was fantastic and explained everything thoroughly, we went ahead and again the hardest part is the rehab - she had physio and hydrotherapy which continues now 8 months later.She took painkillers and anti inflammatories for a prolonged period so we monitored her bloods very carefully in the post op months. I was able to take three weeks off work to get her through the initial recovery period. If you did not know she had had the surgery you probably would not notice her very slight limp now,she is off all pain killers and able to run around on her walks, there was a rotti who was in at the same time as her for a total hip replacement and I have seen him at a couple of Issy's follow up appointments, his owner has said he is doing very well, shows no sign of pain and runs around quite happily. We are very aware that her other hip could go at any time - the physio she sees at UQ has a dog that has had the same surgery as her bilaterally and he is doing very well also but again he has tons of aftercare. We are hoping that smaller implants will be available by the time she needs another surgery. I don't regret going through with the surgery and will most likely go ahead with the other hip when the time comes whether it is a replacement or ostectomy, if your boy can have the total hip replacement which generally has an even better outcome than Issy's I would probably go ahead if it was me and I was able to to all the follow up work, but every dog is different and I agree I would look for other issues first. Issy's front legs, spine etc were checked at the time and she is very sound in these areas so this has helped her a lot. We do our best not to wrap her in cotton wool,she is only just rising three and is a rufty tufty girl, my heart is in my mouth sometimes when she makes a dash across the beach or off leash oval but she so enjoys it I am not willing to stop her and after much discussion and soul searching decided that her quality of life would not be great if she had to spend all of her time cooped up or on leash. We don't walk her for long stretches on very hard surfaces and we do lots of stretching exercises and swimming as well as the hydro. She has cartrophen injections monthly and takes Sasha's blend daily. We do have to limit her play with our other dog as Pei play very roughly with each other, both have coped fine with this and Alfie gets playtime with other family members dogs so he doesn't miss out. It has been a tough journey so far in some respects,made harder by the fact we know it might not be done with yet and we have agreed to review at each stage and not just carry on because we can't let her go. I really hope things go well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Some dogs with very Dysplastic hips will never show clinical signs or not show bad signs until they are quite old. So it's important to keep in mind that x rays dont always correlate with clinical signs or the amount if pain the dog Is in. So Sometimes dogs with very little coverage of the femoral head and very shallow sockets are better off than dogs with mild HD because there is not much bone contact to rub and cause arthritis. If he isn't showing signs of pain (assuming the limp in the front leg is unrelated?) I would hold off on any surgery for as long as possible. Hip replacements only have a limited lifespan before the implants loosen and break down. From memory it's between 5-8 years. So you want the dog to be older 5yrs +ideally in order to avoid a second surgery later in life. But if there dog is in severe painTHR would probably be the best option for a large breed. Sorry you are going through this and I hope your boy will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 My Lab has severe HD and was finding it very difficult to walk at 6 months. I didn't like the idea of surgery on such a young dog and went the route of crate rest, pain relife, keeping him very lean and fit with low impact exercise like swimming (best thing we ever did for him). He's 10 now and is only now starting to slow down and finding it more difficult to walk around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 yup my rottweiler was worst then that. He lived until 4 years of age as the surgical option on a 50kg dog was in no way guarenteed. My thought is now having gone through 2 severe HD dogs is give them a good life, then PTS. Sounds harsh but I watched 2 dogs miss out on so much despite not being in pain, it wasnt fair to see their faces while they watched others do what they couldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I tend to agree, nekh. ..plus young dogs, carefully managed , can form a reasonably functional 'joint' with extra muscle development .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianed Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Would stem sell therapy be of any value? Surgery would be my last resort. to you and Cooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I've been thinking about Cooper .. and one other suggestion if he gets very uncomfortable and has troubles .. is total removal of that useless femoral head completely . I have seen this done .. they vet I worked for used to do it in almost keyhole surgery (dogs which had heaps of pain ) and dogs went out of the clinic next day with wagging tails :) He is still a baby ..still developing , and , if he were mine, I would not hurry to book any surgery . Why not make an appointment with a specialist at Werribbee Vet hospital , and discuss it . ? Oh -, BTW, what were the elbow Xray results? Werribee can examine those xrays , and probably do their own if the wrong angles, etc were used in the originals ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 depends what the quality of life will be. I just put to sleep my own pup because the prognosis long term post surgery was not good enough for the dog. His breeder and his parents breeder agreed. 8 Months of age. Decide what you want to do, and speak to the surgeon honestly about what they think. The dog already has a list of problems now this on top. Frankly if the dog was going to live a life of limited mobility and not be able to live the way it deserved without pain then I would PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 Thank you all for taking the time to write, I really appreciate it. To be honest my vet said about the total hip replacement and admitted that is not something he does thus sending off for an outside experienced opinion. He also said that he looks after a Golden whose hips are probably comparable to Coop, but this dog is managed conservatively. So much to learn, but I am really not going to make any rash decisions. Now that I am really looking, he is loose in the rear. I have noticed the muscle wastage but assumed it was due to the restricted exercise due to months of elbow issues. I feel guilty for not chasing this earlier. Cooper has always been a talker...he moans and talks. It's hard to describe and we thought it was just him but maybe it is him being in pain. I just don't know. I really appreciate those of you who have said to research but perhaps pts would be best. I know it is not said lightly but for me, unless he could have no quality of life I am not considering it. That may be selfish I know, but I feel I have to give him a fighting chance. He really is the best pup I have ever had. I love him dearly but I will do whatever is best for him. I will contact other specialists (thank you) after I hear back from the specialist. Again, thank you all so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bianca.a Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 Sorry his elbows were fine at 6 months and then yesterday (only took right) his elbow and shoulder are also fine. And stem cell, I have been told about some great success with this so another thing I will also mention to the vet, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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