Jozlyn Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 (edited) I started doing Susan Garrett's "Crate Games" then ran into a hitch when she just wouldn't come out of the crate I ended up running through the house and out the back door to get her to get out, then she just turned around and ran straight back in Abby in her crate. Edited September 10, 2012 by Jozlyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Great work Jozlyn... and watch out for kelpie training human (again). Change the quality of the treat she gets for coming out compared to what she gets for going in. Ie praise or nothing for coming out vs roast chicken for going in? Try kibble in - kibble out or kibble in - roast chicken out (or game of chase the boss for coming out). Until she comes out readily when you ask and goes in readily when you ask - just keep changing the quality of the reward (and remember she chooses what's best) for going in vs coming out until you have the balance right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozlyn Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 I was using boiled chicken "In" & biscuits for "Out" today. Tomorrow I'll retry with chicken for "In" again & cheese for "Out" and see how she goes. I also need to work on her "collar grab" as I had no idea how much she'd hate that idea! I'm really having a ball with her training now & so is she. She gets so excited when she see's the treat bag come down off it's peg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 That's funny :) I believe Susan's approach to this is to release the dog out and then do fun stuff on the outside too, like great treats or a game of tug or something, and release often to build value for releasing too. If the dog doesn't release on the release word, you close the door as if they made a mistake, then open and try to release again. Repeat until the dog releases, then reward for the release, and on the next few reps build more value for releasing. Not sure if you'd do this with a puppy or a dog who is new to crate games though. I wouldn't run out and do weird stuff to get the dog to release. You don't want to build movement and distance into the release, as you might want the dog to stay in the crate when you do that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozlyn Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 That's funny :) I believe Susan's approach to this is to release the dog out and then do fun stuff on the outside too, like great treats or a game of tug or something, and release often to build value for releasing too. If the dog doesn't release on the release word, you close the door as if they made a mistake, then open and try to release again. Repeat until the dog releases, then reward for the release, and on the next few reps build more value for releasing. Not sure if you'd do this with a puppy or a dog who is new to crate games though. I wouldn't run out and do weird stuff to get the dog to release. You don't want to build movement and distance into the release, as you might want the dog to stay in the crate when you do that in the future. Yep, pretty much. But we were only at Stage 2, testing. where she was supposed to come out and then choose to go back in, but she didn't want to come out lol when I finally got her to come out, she just turned around and bolted back in. I actually couldn't get her to come out a 2nd time so I left her to it and I'll try again tomorrow. There was actually no solution for a dog that didn't want to come out! All of the dogs in the video just came out easily. Trust Abby to throw a spanner in the works, she's such a funny little character. Her recall is really good now, but I was only standing about a foot away from her (with my foot on her lead), clearly she didn't see any reason to come any closer to me. It's also not very far from where the crate was to the back door, maybe 5 meters or so, at the time it was the only thing I could think of to get her to come out as I was not supposed to lure her with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 i think there is some trouble shooting stuff at the end... about re-balancing your treats... have you watched it all the way through yet? My dog would not sit for opening door. Didn't matter how long I waited. She did not get it. She'd be standing up or lying down or whatever - she wouldn't move at all until I got the door open. I think she found the hand on her head blocking sneaky exits so erm embarrassing? anyway she got that message completely - no coming out until invited. The other sneaky thing about crate games is you have to be aware - not to reward if the dog goes in and you haven't cued it (once you've completed stage 3), and not to reward coming out when that happens either ie sneaky human training dogs - will go in the crate unasked in the hopes of getting a release and all the goodies that go with that... And you want them to know the difference between if they put themselves in there, they can release themselves vs if you tell them to go in there, they can't come out until you say. It's a tricky thing and I don't think me and my hound have it right at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozlyn Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 i think there is some trouble shooting stuff at the end... about re-balancing your treats... have you watched it all the way through yet? I hadn't, but I have now. I didn't notice there was a page 2 to the menu with a trouble shooting section, so we'll have another go today. My dog would not sit for opening door. Didn't matter how long I waited. She did not get it. She'd be standing up or lying down or whatever - she wouldn't move at all until I got the door open. I think she found the hand on her head blocking sneaky exits so erm embarrassing? anyway she got that message completely - no coming out until invited. lol I had a little trouble with that too, as I couldn't get my arm up high enough in the crate to get her to sit. She worked it out eventually 'cause I just wouldn't let her have the treat (clutched like iron between finger & thumb) till she twigged. It was easy after that. The other sneaky thing about crate games is you have to be aware - not to reward if the dog goes in and you haven't cued it (once you've completed stage 3), and not to reward coming out when that happens either ie sneaky human training dogs - will go in the crate unasked in the hopes of getting a release and all the goodies that go with that... And you want them to know the difference between if they put themselves in there, they can release themselves vs if you tell them to go in there, they can't come out until you say. It's a tricky thing and I don't think me and my hound have it right at the moment. Yeah, got my eye on myself big time for things like that. She's still quite good at training me, if I'm a bit distracted. However she's got the OH & kids fully trained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgieB Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I'm having trouble with this part too with Reggie :laugh: I've misplaced my dvd, but will give it another go once I find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozlyn Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 I'm having trouble with this part too with Reggie :laugh: I've misplaced my dvd, but will give it another go once I find it. The dvd is exactly as Mrs Rusty Bucket & Fuzzy82 says. Swap the treats around till she's coming out reliably, then swap them back again to amp the crate value back up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffylover81 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I just got my copy of Crate Games and can't wait to get started on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 One more thing, up date on the crate games... SG uses the wire mesh crate so that you can see what she's doing with the dog - ie for the camera. But it works better if you start with one of those hard shell things, and then graduate to a soft sided crate for the faster stuff. And when she's looking to build speed and enthusiasm, she throws treats into the back of the crate as the dog goes in - which doesn't work so well if the crate is a wire one and the treats go straight out the back. Or if there is a big cushion in there that hides the treats. And once the dog is blasting in and out of the crate on cue (imagine that), the floor of the crate needs to be something not too slippery and doesn't bunch up under the dog. And outside and pegged down is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozlyn Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 One more thing, up date on the crate games... SG uses the wire mesh crate so that you can see what she's doing with the dog - ie for the camera. But it works better if you start with one of those hard shell things, and then graduate to a soft sided crate for the faster stuff. And when she's looking to build speed and enthusiasm, she throws treats into the back of the crate as the dog goes in - which doesn't work so well if the crate is a wire one and the treats go straight out the back. Or if there is a big cushion in there that hides the treats. I'm not buying another crate! I'll find a solution! And once the dog is blasting in and out of the crate on cue (imagine that), the floor of the crate needs to be something not too slippery and doesn't bunch up under the dog. A rubber bath mat (suction cup type) or a piece of scoot guard might fix that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozlyn Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 I just got my copy of Crate Games and can't wait to get started on it It's lots of fun :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I'm not buying another crate! I'll find a solution! LOL - I've got three now. I didn't buy the first one - kind of handed down or "stored at my place" by my brother... and then i got a really big discount soft sided fold up crate - and we wore through the bottom of it and someone big sat (or fell) on the top and broke one of the side support pole thingies. I've made some "temporary" fixes with duct tape and cable ties and super glue - so it functions as the living room crate. And I bought another for out and about. And I always put a tarp under that one to protect the bottom of it from the ground - especially abrasive concrete. So crate to crate games - you can substitute a mat (bath mat or folded towel etc) for a second crate. Same sort of rules as for the crate apply ie dog has to stay on the mat until released if you sent her there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milacon Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Can I ask where everyone got their Susan Garrett Crate Games DVD from? I did a search but only came up with American websites with hefty shipping fees and nothing came up on eBay. Also how much can I expect to pay for the DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Couple of Aust sites milacon - http://www.agilityclick.com/prod157.htm http://www.wagschoolbooks.com.au/shop/catalog/product/view/id/274/s/crate-games-for-self-control-and-motivation-dvd-by-susan-garrett/category/32/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Here is an Australian supplier http://www.agilityclick.com/category9_1.htm Whoops - too slow! Edited September 18, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) I got mine from here: http://www.clickerdogs.com/crate_games.php Yes, the shipping is a bit costly, but it was cheaper than anywhere else and I figured it was worth it. And I had a 10% discount code at the time so that helped.... Edited September 18, 2012 by fuzzy82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milacon Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Great, thanks for the replies everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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