Horsegal98 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Ate these legal to own in Australia? Geez, I hope they are careful who they sell them to. http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Pets-Horses/Dogs/Dogs-for-Sale/AdNumber=TP005352939 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Strangely cheap for a breed that's supposedly so unique and the only ones available in Australia o_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 This is a real breed. The info looks genuine. Guess they are not out to make money, just like many breeders who import and don't charge what it really cost them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Unless somebody can confirm for me they have met the breeders/dogs I'd steer clear of this as a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Ok, I did some digging and have some more information, which can be found in reading these threads here: http://www.wolfdog.o...?t=21581&page=2 http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15751 From reading it I get the following: Both sire and dam are imported from Germany. Dam is pure Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Sire it seems may not be 100% purebred (being from a kennel called 'Raven's Spirit' which is non-FCI and reputed to have some White Shepherd in the mix). Not a scam as such, but caveat emptor. Edited September 18, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Definately not a dog I would consider, I value the lives of my children and fluffies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazar Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 In the trading posr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.mister Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I looked on his website. Seemed genuinely passionate about the breed and invested the time and money to import dogs. I agree though that having them on the trading post is probably not a good idea. Not so great if the pups fell into the wrong hands. From a young age I was fascinated by the Saarloos Wolfhonds and Czech Wolfdogs I saw in the breed encyclopedia I had. Beautiful, fascinating dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyBlue Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I had a quick read too as I knew nothing about them. He seems genuine enough and I expect the low price is a reflection of the discovery that one of his dogs is not pure. Though to be completely honest, if I was deadset on a dog of this breed, a dog that may have some additional GSD in it, in a new breed that is predominantly GSD anyway (according to wiki 4 wolves and 48 GSDs were used to develop the breed) wouldn't put me off. Especially as it doesn't seem that they are going to be ANKC reg for a while anyway. His website doesn't mention any health testing or anything about the temperament/personality or any achievements the parents may have. That is much more of a concern for me. Along with the fact that from reading the CzW threads the breed seems to attract a certain type of person. I always worry about dogs which are selected by owners based solely on their appearance. I would certainly hope that he knows how to and does screen prospective buyers extremely well or we're going to see a lot of these dogs in rescue. The fact the ad is on trading post doesn't give me confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 One concern that I have is that the prIce is so low that many Indiscriminating owners might Purchase them. An entire male might escape and go feral. High proportion wolf blood in the general dog, and god forbid, the dingo population, sounds bad, very bad for wildlife. Although I am unsure of the percentage mix of wolf to dog in this breed. It may well be low, but I've heard that they howl rather than bark instinctively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There is a breed standard apparently recognised by the FCI. I worry about an adverse reaction if the media refers to them as "wolfdogs" and deliberately tries to compare them to the North American Timber Wolf/ Dog hybrids, which have had adverse publicity and, in some US juridictions are banned from ownership. It wasn't that long ago that German Shepherds were banned in some Australian States, and more recently there was a mild panic when someone wanted to import tame foxes from the Russian Siberian Fox experiment (the Russians were selling some of their stock to raise money to continue their research). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) I dont think the last photo was taken in Australia looks more like Europe to me although I can't be sure. I didn't think it was legal to own these in Australia. Hmmm found this old thread, maybe they can be imported but have to be 5th gen away from pure wolf. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/23951-wolfdogs/ Edited September 18, 2012 by Kirislin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) They are a recognised breed and yes they can be imported. The % of 'wolf' blood in them is low What can't be imported are wolf-dog hybrids Where you advertise is not relevant as the trading post is as good a place as any. Just as what you charge is not relevant (and we know that many responsible registered breeders charge less than 'designer dog' breeders - price is NOT a reflection of quality or care) What is relevant is how he selects new owners and we have no information either way on that so can not make any judgement. He may also be advertising elsewhere, but we here just haven't seen the ads. They are certainly a breed that requires a certain type of owner, but so are many breeds here in Australia. No different from ensuring a Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, working line Malinois, Dutch Shepherd etc etc etc goes to a home that can handle their particular needs. And I think there is a pretty slim chance of one of these dogs 'going feral' (lets not get into speculative scare mongering...) If the word 'wolf' in the name is a problem, they better rename the Irish Wolfhound too...... Search DOL and the breed has been mentioned plenty of times before with some indicating they would love to own one. Hopefully one day someone will import more, but for the moment this is all there is. Potential owners just have to know what they are getting and know that because of the sire these particular puppies can not be registered with the ANKC. Edited September 18, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 They are a recognised breed and yes they can be imported. The % of 'wolf' blood in them is low What can't be imported are wolf-dog hybrids Where you advertise is not relevant as the trading post is as good a place as any. Just as what you charge is not relevant (and we know that many responsible registered breeders charge less than 'designer dog' breeders - price is NOT a reflection of quality or care) What is relevant is how he selects new owners and we have no information either way on that so can not make any judgement. He may also be advertising elsewhere, but we here just haven't seen the ads. They are certainly a breed that requires a certain type of owner, but so are many breeds here in Australia. No different from ensuring a Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Tibetan Mastiff, working line Malinois, Dutch Shepherd etc etc etc goes to a home that can handle their particular needs. And I think there is a pretty slim chance of one of these dogs 'going feral' (lets not get into speculative scare mongering...) If the word 'wolf' in the name is a problem, they better rename the Irish Wolfhound too...... Search DOL and the breed has been mentioned plenty of times before with some indicating they would love to own one. Hopefully one day someone will import more, but for the moment this is all there is. Potential owners just have to know what they are getting and know that because of the sire these particular puppies can not be registered with the ANKC. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the Rebel Wolf Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Well I stand corrected in the light of Espinay's digging, nice work mate! Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my old age LOL http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15751 "I'm sorry but not even one of Raven's Spirit Wolfdogs is a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. All of them are mixes and it is also visible on the photos. Because of it the puppy you have is also not a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog but almost for sure White Shepherd-CzW-Mix.Ravens Spirit is not a recognized kennel - they own one CzW male but they cross it with all kind of mixes (CzW x White Shepherd, dogs with unknown origin). Really: not even one of their litters is a litter of real Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. " - Quote from the thread linked above. Now I'm insanely curious to know exactly what percentage of Carpathian Wolf is in the breed - is it a situation like with Bengal cats? Despite being originally crossed with Asian Leopard Cats most today and particularly all those in Australia have less than 1% ALC blood. I can't seem to find any info on what percentage wild blood the average CzW has. Edited September 19, 2012 by Chris the Rebel Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Well I stand corrected in the light of Espinay's digging, nice work mate! Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my old age LOL http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15751 "I'm sorry but not even one of Raven's Spirit Wolfdogs is a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. All of them are mixes and it is also visible on the photos. Because of it the puppy you have is also not a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog but almost for sure White Shepherd-CzW-Mix.Ravens Spirit is not a recognized kennel - they own one CzW male but they cross it with all kind of mixes (CzW x White Shepherd, dogs with unknown origin). Really: not even one of their litters is a litter of real Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. " - Quote from the thread linked above. Now I'm insanely curious to know exactly what percentage of Carpathian Wolf is in the breed - is it a situation like with Bengal cats? Despite being originally crossed with Asian Leopard Cats most today and particularly all those in Australia have less than 1% ALC blood. I can't seem to find any info on what percentage wild blood the average CzW has. That forum is awesome, it's just as bitchy as DOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curlybert Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm curious that the advertiser is in Alexandria - an inner Sydney suburb with lots of terrace houses and small courtyards - certainly no quarter-acre blocks to breed and raise large pooches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm curious that the advertiser is in Alexandria - an inner Sydney suburb with lots of terrace houses and small courtyards - certainly no quarter-acre blocks to breed and raise large pooches! There are heaps of houses with backyards in Alexandria And you don't need acreage to raise large dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I stand corrected, initially I thought they were about the same as the American wolf dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 There's a study which has verified modern wolf mDNA in some Finnish Lapphunds, including one which is in my girl's pedigree not too far back (no idea how far back the female wolf was, though!). There must be several other breeds with relatively recent wolf blood influx, introduced deliberately or accidentally, and there's several breeds which howl instinctively. My tiny-bit-wolf dog likes to herd cats, not eat them :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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