Coroner Calls For Laws On Breeding Restricted Breeds

[Salukifan]

We're approaching what 7 or 8 years of BSL now ? and there's been no headway made in having the laws repealed, they are here to stay, regardless of what we think of them and I personally don't see any major about faces happening in the next ten years.

So in the mean time, my suggestion is that people who want a bull breed , get themselves a pedigree dog and then they won't have to worry about being caught up in BSL. If it means that people do not take on bull breed rescue mixes, then so be it. They won't have to worry about rangers knocking on their doors, issuing NOI's or siezing their pets.

ETA: The rescues and shelters should NOT be rehoming these dogs. NSW should be considered the exception, as there is a means of breed ID and temp testing that will protect dogs.

So you are wanting innocent dogs to be killed? Some dog lover you are.

They are dying now. Why break a dog lover's heart by allowing them to adopt a dog with a death sentence over its head. Campaign for breed assessment but in the meantime don't set families up for heartbreak.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Cosmolo]

But i think you're missing a major issue. When we adopted our dogs aside from what the shelter called them (which is what Avergae Joe would believe mind you) we did not believe for a moment the dogs were pit bulls OR pit bull cross breeds- i have done plenty of breed id in my life and know a bit more than average Joe. The Vic legislation goes beyond pit bull and talks about a 'type', a dog that fits the 'standard'. How do you expect that people should have known about that before last year!!?

[moosmum]

But i think you're missing a major issue. When we adopted our dogs aside from what the shelter called them (which is what Avergae Joe would believe mind you) we did not believe for a moment the dogs were pit bulls OR pit bull cross breeds- i have done plenty of breed id in my life and know a bit more than average Joe. The Vic legislation goes beyond pit bull and talks about a 'type', a dog that fits the 'standard'. How do you expect that people should have known about that before last year!!?

Seems these trolls like B.S.L not because they think its its the answer to dog attacks,but because its a step towards wiping out non ANKC papered dogs.Thats going to help the ANKC cause

Kinda invalidates the pro B.S.L cause if its realy another thing entirely. :laugh:

[mantis]

But i think you're missing a major issue. When we adopted our dogs aside from what the shelter called them (which is what Avergae Joe would believe mind you) we did not believe for a moment the dogs were pit bulls OR pit bull cross breeds- i have done plenty of breed id in my life and know a bit more than average Joe. The Vic legislation goes beyond pit bull and talks about a 'type', a dog that fits the 'standard'. How do you expect that people should have known about that before last year!!?

Seems these trolls like B.S.L not because they think its its the answer to dog attacks,but because its a step towards wiping out non ANKC papered dogs.Thats going to help the ANKC cause

Kinda invalidates the pro B.S.L cause if its realy another thing entirely. :laugh:

Well said. :cheer:

[moosmum]

We're approaching what 7 or 8 years of BSL now ? and there's been no headway made in having the laws repealed, they are here to stay, regardless of what we think of them and I personally don't see any major about faces happening in the next ten years.

So in the mean time, my suggestion is that people who want a bull breed , get themselves a pedigree dog and then they won't have to worry about being caught up in BSL. If it means that people do not take on bull breed rescue mixes, then so be it. They won't have to worry about rangers knocking on their doors, issuing NOI's or siezing their pets.

ETA: The rescues and shelters should NOT be rehoming these dogs. NSW should be considered the exception, as there is a means of breed ID and temp testing that will protect dogs.

So you are wanting innocent dogs to be killed? Some dog lover you are.

They are dying now. Why break a dog lover's heart by allowing them to adopt a dog with a death sentence over its head. Campaign for breed assessment but in the meantime don't set families up for heartbreak.

I agree.Heartbreaking to see good dogs given no chance,but could be doubly heart breaking other wise.

[WreckitWhippet]

But i think you're missing a major issue. When we adopted our dogs aside from what the shelter called them (which is what Avergae Joe would believe mind you) we did not believe for a moment the dogs were pit bulls OR pit bull cross breeds- i have done plenty of breed id in my life and know a bit more than average Joe. The Vic legislation goes beyond pit bull and talks about a 'type', a dog that fits the 'standard'. How do you expect that people should have known about that before last year!!?

Seems these trolls like B.S.L not because they think its its the answer to dog attacks,but because its a step towards wiping out non ANKC papered dogs.Thats going to help the ANKC cause

Kinda invalidates the pro B.S.L cause if its realy another thing entirely. :laugh:

I'm sorry but where have I ever said that BSL is a good thing ?

I certainly don't think for a second that BSL reduces bite stats.

The methods of protest and defiance have all been met with deaf ears and BSL is not going away any time soon.

Why would anyone want to wipe out non ANKC dogs. That statement is idiotic to say the least and the ANKC breeds have nothing to fear from BYBer's and mongrel bred dogs. There are not enough ANKC breeders now to meet the demand for puppies, so I'm not sure what purpose the elimination of other dogs would serve.

But if telling people to buy a pup or dog from a registered breeder and make sure they have the ANKC papers and corresponding chip, earns me the tag of a troll, so be it

ETA: if I did own a dog that could potentially be mistaken for a restricted breed or cross, I'd be collecting as much information as I could about my dog, it's parents, where it came from etc. I'd be proving parentage via DNA if possible, getting vet reports, behaviourist reports and anything else that might help my cause and lawyering up for the ride.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Pav Lova

[moosmum]

But i think you're missing a major issue. When we adopted our dogs aside from what the shelter called them (which is what Avergae Joe would believe mind you) we did not believe for a moment the dogs were pit bulls OR pit bull cross breeds- i have done plenty of breed id in my life and know a bit more than average Joe. The Vic legislation goes beyond pit bull and talks about a 'type', a dog that fits the 'standard'. How do you expect that people should have known about that before last year!!?

Seems these trolls like B.S.L not because they think its its the answer to dog attacks,but because its a step towards wiping out non ANKC papered dogs.Thats going to help the ANKC cause

Kinda invalidates the pro B.S.L cause if its realy another thing entirely. :laugh:

I'm sorry but where have I ever said that BSL is a good thing ?

I certainly don't think for a second that BSL reduces bite stats.

The methods of protest and defiance have all been met with deaf ears and BSL is not going away any time soon.

Why would anyone want to wipe out non ANKC dogs. That statement is idiotic to say the least and the ANKC breeds have nothing to fear from BYBer's and mongrel bred dogs. There are not enough ANKC breeders now to meet the demand for puppies, so I'm not sure what purpose the elimination of other dogs would serve.

But if telling people to buy a pup or dog from a registered breeder and make sure they have the ANKC papers and corresponding chip, earns me the tag of a troll, so be it

ETA: if I did own a dog that could potentially be mistaken for a restricted breed or cross, I'd be collecting as much information as I could about my dog, it's parents, where it came from etc. I'd be proving parentage via DNA if possible, getting vet reports, behaviourist reports and anything else that might help my cause and lawyering up for the ride.

Sorry Pav Lova if you took any part of my response to be aimed at you.It was not.Your posts have been considered and rational,definitely not troll-like.

M-Sass has not and going by their posts in this thread and others,M-sass's agenda is not to reduce bite stats,but to eliminate non ANKC reg. dogs.I suspect "Steamboat" has a similar agenda.If thats the case,I don't think B.S.L should be a platform for their cause.I can't see ANKC being thrilled with the idea either.

I think most B.S.L supporters genuinely want to reduce attacks,I just believe there are better ways that would have positive flow on effects rather than so many negatives for inocent people and their dogs.

I don't have bull breeds or bull breed crosses,but I do have concerns that deed takes second place to breed.

Edited October 19, 2012 by moosmum

[moosmum]

Please don't feed the troll guys. You will never, ever get anywhere. It's pointless.

This is essentially a pure breed forum is it not??, personally I don't like crossbreed dogs to the point of owning one, even having a good crossbreed dog, how do you replicate the traits of unknown bloodlines and ancestory to produce good dogs into the future........personally I am not into throwing males and females together to produce lucky dips or neither do I support BYB practices I think it stinks, so perhaps the supporters of crossbreeds anti BSL crusaders which ultimately supports crossbreeds BYB's and breeds unrecognised in the pure breed registries are on the wrong forum??. Why on a pure breed forum are people trolls because they support only pure breed dogs............wouldn't it be common sense to expect on a pure breed forum to encounter people not supportive of crossbreeds and restricted breeds and their look a likes??

Because not everyone supports restricted breeds and crossbreeds doesn't make them trolls, but it's interesting to see debates unfold where the BSL supporters are lost for answers which to me is obvious as a loosing battle, a waste of time I think people need to accept the laws and get on with it and next time don't buy a dog who's breed cannot be proven to satisfy the requirements?

As to your questions M-Sass,I do have some answers for you,but this is not the place.As you have pointed out,this is a pedigree forum and it would not be appropriate.But it should'nt be relevent to reducing dog attacks were that your primary goal.

[Salukifan]

Seems these trolls like B.S.L not because they think its its the answer to dog attacks,but because its a step towards wiping out non ANKC papered dogs.Thats going to help the ANKC cause

Nice one. The ANKC has a published policy of being anti-BSL. That is a very cheap shot and an utterly undeserved one.

Seems some folk can't tell friend from foe on this issue.

[Plan B]

This is essentially a pure breed forum is it not??, personally I don't like crossbreed dogs to the point of owning one, even having a good crossbreed dog, how do you replicate the traits of unknown bloodlines and ancestory to produce good dogs into the future........personally I am not into throwing males and females together to produce lucky dips or neither do I support BYB practices I think it stinks, so perhaps the supporters of crossbreeds anti BSL crusaders which ultimately supports crossbreeds BYB's and breeds unrecognised in the pure breed registries are on the wrong forum??

And this is where you're going wrong.

People aren't advocating the breeding of crossbreed dogs.

People are saying that just because certain dogs happen to be a crossbreed, it doesn't mean it should be killed.

[m-sass]

But i think you're missing a major issue. When we adopted our dogs aside from what the shelter called them (which is what Avergae Joe would believe mind you) we did not believe for a moment the dogs were pit bulls OR pit bull cross breeds- i have done plenty of breed id in my life and know a bit more than average Joe. The Vic legislation goes beyond pit bull and talks about a 'type', a dog that fits the 'standard'. How do you expect that people should have known about that before last year!!?

Who's forcing anyone to get a dog from a shelter, again it's about choices isn't it??.

[m-sass]

This is essentially a pure breed forum is it not??, personally I don't like crossbreed dogs to the point of owning one, even having a good crossbreed dog, how do you replicate the traits of unknown bloodlines and ancestory to produce good dogs into the future........personally I am not into throwing males and females together to produce lucky dips or neither do I support BYB practices I think it stinks, so perhaps the supporters of crossbreeds anti BSL crusaders which ultimately supports crossbreeds BYB's and breeds unrecognised in the pure breed registries are on the wrong forum??

And this is where you're going wrong.

People aren't advocating the breeding of crossbreed dogs.

People are saying that just because certain dogs happen to be a crossbreed, it doesn't mean it should be killed.

When there are breed restrictions in place which has been the case for 20 odd years, if you happen to have a crossbreed dog who resembles a restricted breed and you can't prove it isn't, then you have a problem which has always been the case. If someone doesn't know what they are buying in terms of breed or know how a puppy may turn out physically as an adult, that's the chance you take with crossbreed dogs.........my point is, if don't want to be tangled up with BSL problems, don't buy dogs like that, plenty of BSL safe choices.

[moosmum]

Seems these trolls like B.S.L not because they think its its the answer to dog attacks,but because its a step towards wiping out non ANKC papered dogs.Thats going to help the ANKC cause

Nice one. The ANKC has a published policy of being anti-BSL. That is a very cheap shot and an utterly undeserved one.

Seems some folk can't tell friend from foe on this issue.

I had intended the icons to convey sarcasm and it was not a cheap shot at ANKC,but trying to get the message through that they aren't doing ANKC any favours.

Edited October 19, 2012 by moosmum

[moosmum]

This is essentially a pure breed forum is it not??, personally I don't like crossbreed dogs to the point of owning one, even having a good crossbreed dog, how do you replicate the traits of unknown bloodlines and ancestory to produce good dogs into the future........personally I am not into throwing males and females together to produce lucky dips or neither do I support BYB practices I think it stinks, so perhaps the supporters of crossbreeds anti BSL crusaders which ultimately supports crossbreeds BYB's and breeds unrecognised in the pure breed registries are on the wrong forum??

And this is where you're going wrong.

People aren't advocating the breeding of crossbreed dogs.

People are saying that just because certain dogs happen to be a crossbreed, it doesn't mean it should be killed.

When there are breed restrictions in place which has been the case for 20 odd years, if you happen to have a crossbreed dog who resembles a restricted breed and you can't prove it isn't, then you have a problem which has always been the case. If someone doesn't know what they are buying in terms of breed or know how a puppy may turn out physically as an adult, that's the chance you take with crossbreed dogs.........my point is, if don't want to be tangled up with BSL problems, don't buy dogs like that, plenty of BSL safe choices.

M-Sass,On one hand you argue in favour of B.S.L as a solution and tell us the parameters won't be changed or broadened.That people who do the right thing have nothing to fear as long as they are ANKC members,or only buy ANKC Reg. dogs.

On the other hand,you show us just how easy it is to use that fear to broaden the parameters and include dogs that were never intended targets and have done nothing wrong.

[Cosmolo]

Who said anything about being forced to buy a dog from a shelter? You've missed the point of my post.

[moosmum]

This is essentially a pure breed forum is it not??, personally I don't like crossbreed dogs to the point of owning one, even having a good crossbreed dog, how do you replicate the traits of unknown bloodlines and ancestory to produce good dogs into the future........personally I am not into throwing males and females together to produce lucky dips or neither do I support BYB practices I think it stinks, so perhaps the supporters of crossbreeds anti BSL crusaders which ultimately supports crossbreeds BYB's and breeds unrecognised in the pure breed registries are on the wrong forum??

And this is where you're going wrong.

People aren't advocating the breeding of crossbreed dogs.

People are saying that just because certain dogs happen to be a crossbreed, it doesn't mean it should be killed.

When there are breed restrictions in place which has been the case for 20 odd years, if you happen to have a crossbreed dog who resembles a restricted breed and you can't prove it isn't, then you have a problem which has always been the case. If someone doesn't know what they are buying in terms of breed or know how a puppy may turn out physically as an adult, that's the chance you take with crossbreed dogs.........my point is, if don't want to be tangled up with BSL problems, don't buy dogs like that, plenty of BSL safe choices.

But for many people being affected it wasn't the case when when they bought their dogs at all.Its not about choices,but removing choices.

B.S.L doesn't accept responsible choices or responsible ownership,It reinforces the notion breeders (supply) are responsible for any mess and joe public shouldn't have to consider their choices or management.

I don't disagree with every thing you say M-Sass,but I think you support B.S.L for all the wrong reasons and to me,it just high lights the dangers.

Edited October 20, 2012 by moosmum

[Plan B]

When there are breed restrictions in place which has been the case for 20 odd years, if you happen to have a crossbreed dog who resembles a restricted breed and you can't prove it isn't, then you have a problem which has always been the case. If someone doesn't know what they are buying in terms of breed or know how a puppy may turn out physically as an adult, that's the chance you take with crossbreed dogs.........my point is, if don't want to be tangled up with BSL problems, don't buy dogs like that, plenty of BSL safe choices.

And once again, you have missed the point entirely, as you do so well.

You don't even need to own a crossbreed dog of a 'Pit Bull Type' to know that the killing of innocent dogs, based on a legislation proven ineffective, is wrong.

People can come to that conclusion by just being a rational, compassionate person.

[m-sass]

M-Sass,On one hand you argue in favour of B.S.L as a solution and tell us the parameters won't be changed or broadened.That people who do the right thing have nothing to fear as long as they are ANKC members,or only buy ANKC Reg. dogs.

On the other hand,you show us just how easy it is to use that fear to broaden the parameters and include dogs that were never intended targets and have done nothing wrong.

BSL really only ever effected Pitbull owners, as the other breeds listed are virtually non existant. Personally, I don't see a need for anyone to own a Pitbull and if someone wants something similar they can safely buy an Amstaff even put a studded collar on it and call it a Pitbull if they wish, I don't care one way or the other, but to jump on board with the Pitbull supporters in anti BSL regimes on the basis of scare tactics that other breeds will be next, I strongly disagree with that suggestion which has already been tested as I mentioned in an earlier post with the Amstaff's exclusion. The Amstaff is the closest you will get to an APBT and if they have provided Amstaff exclusion from the legislation, any other ANKC recognised breed is as safe as houses.........unless you want to keep a Pitbull legally, BSL is really of no consequence to the rest of the dog community IMHO??.

I have absolutely nothing against Pitbull's and I know of a few personally bar one who has massive dog aggression, the others are nice dogs, but all are registered with the council as crossbreeds to mask their identity.......people with Pitbull's have been doing this for years to avoid restricted breed declarations.........and you wonder why the legislation has been extended to crossbreeds ........perhaps the Pitbull owners who have lied about their breed to misconstrude their true identity for so many years have contributed to the crossbreed hunt for like characteristics and the amount of times a dog is reported as a Pitbull incident all you hear from the Pitbull and anti-BSL crusaders is THAT'S NOT A PITBULL IT'S A CROSSBREED ........so who has bought the crossbreed under attack then??, more than likely the very people trying to do a turn about after putting their foot in it

So the government has definitely listened to the THAT'S NOT A PITBULL but a CROSSBREED cry and with the collection of data where Pitbull types have been falsely registered as crossbreeds.......what??, you can't understand why they are targeting crossbreeds??.........I surely can!!

[m-sass]

But for many people being affected it wasn't the case when when they bought their dogs at all

It was the case really at anytime for years a dog with a Pitbull resemblence could be declared a restricted breed if the owners couldn't prove otherwise and the dog if not seized depending on the council area inwhich it was registered could be placed under restricted breed limitations and that has happened many times in the past. There has always been a risk involved with dogs of particular appearance.......people have been through the same thing with dogs who resemble Dingo's, so to me there has always been potential inevitability if you sail close to the line with dogs resembling restricted breeds or Dingo's that you couldn't prove otherwise that dramas could easily be approaching.

It's no different in some parts of the USA........you dont do the GSD X Husky route as they are likely to be scooped up as a wolf hybrid which are illegal in those areas......same thing really??.

[moosmum]

I'm not up to much of a response M-Sass,saying some good bys to an old friend .

I do follow your reasoning and see where you are coming from now.

I still can't see B.S.L as a real solution to dog attacks when other avenues could have benefits for most average dog owners(and dogs) in so many other areas as well.Not when I expect to see more dog attacks occuring even if B.S.L were sucessfull.I can't see the colateral damage as acceptable when people who have done nothing wrong get accidentaly caught up in this.I can't accept with out argument that a calm,stable dog with responsible owners who have put in the hard yards should be killed because he looks like there a possibility of bull breed in there some where when some gitt down the road who could ruin any dog and make it a danger has no such problem just because he chooses another.

Edited October 20, 2012 by moosmum