Vitamin C - What Is It Meant To Do For Muscles/joints?

[megan_]

I noticed that in CLM's thread a lot of people suggested she give her dog Vitamin C to help muscle/joint development. What exactly does it do?

[moosmum]

Some one in that thread should be able to explain why they use it for that purpose,but Vitamin C is known to promote healthy connective tissue.Maybe that includes tendon and cartilage? I find it a useful "boost" for repair and immunity.

Edited October 18, 2012 by moosmum

[espinay2]

Wendell Bellfield's study: http://www.seanet.co...8-v2-n3-p10.htm

Writings and links to articles by Sy Guth in NZ: http://www.lorgair.c...es.html#journey

http://www.lapdog.co.nz/articles/vitamin_c_revisited_sy_guth.pdf

http://www.lapdog.co.nz/vitcdogs.php

This is probably some of the most comprehensively compiled information on the subject that is available.

Note she does push a particular brand of Vit C, but also discusses Vit C types in general, referring to Bellfield who advocates use of sodium ascorbate

Edited October 18, 2012 by espinay2

[moosmum]

Great links,Thanks Espinay!

I hadn't seen such research with animals,but have used Vitamin C to treat many of the conditions mentioned with excellent results. (feline influenza,pain relief,fertility in horses etc)after reading some earlier publications on research with humans.

Nice to see back up evidence I can refer to.And broaden my use.

Edited October 18, 2012 by moosmum

[megan_]

thanks. The reason that I'm interested is that my boy has had muscle soreness in his back and I was wondering if this would help? His x-rays are all clear, but he's a cross breed and his structure isn't the best.

If I added some to his diet how much should I add (he is 9.5 kg)?

[dancinbcs]

Vitamin C helps to keep the ligaments tight so the joints are less prone to injury.

[Tralee]

I think from Physiology 1A and 1B in second year Biology I seem to recall that vitamin C helps with the uptake of calcium that is needed for muscle contraction.

Caffeine also stimulates the muscles but is contra-indicated if taking Vit C because it inhibits its uptake.

However, this is just off the top of my head, and may be a little bit skewed.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Tralee

[SoL]

I don't care how it works. All I know is that my 11yo boy Chester has bad arthritis in his neck, to the point that he couldn't put his head down to eat and it hurt him to get up, get down and even bark. He has been on rosehip every day for the past 6 months and the difference is brilliant - he's like a pup again trying to keep up with the girls. I'm not saying that it's a cure but it's definitely eased his pain and I highly recommend it.

[Steve]

But - a healthy dog manufactures its own vitamin C. If it isn't manufacturing its own vitamin C that means it isn't getting everything it needs to do so.

Adding any vitamin or mineral one out is dangerous because everything needs everything else to work properly but this one in particular in dogs is needing more than just thinking you will give massive doses and all will be well. You may even see some improvement in the short term but it doesn't fix the problem causing it.

A dog synthesizes as much vitamin C as it typically needs through its liver using trace minerals in takes in through its diet. People either never had this ability, or lost it through the ages. When vitamin C supplements are added to a dog's diet, the dog's own ability to produce vitamin C is shut down, perhaps permanently. In addition, the liver and kidney of a dog do not handle well an additional concentration of ascorbic acid. The dog's system works to rid itself of the overabundance of ascorbic acid, causing stress to the organs. A long-term excess of vitamin C can result in kidney and liver damage, which can threaten the dog's life: Ester-C - calcium ascorbate (a version of vitamin C with a calcium component that is typically easy for a body to absorb - providing 114mg of calcium per 1,000mg of asborbic acid) can be beneficial when a dog suffers an injury or has a respiratory problem.

It can work as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory too. If a dog has a deficiency in vitamin C its time to look at what is missing from its diet and why it isnt making as much vitamin C as it needs.

If you are going to give it just because it is a trend without a reason just be aware that in dogs its not like it is in humans and there may be consequences.

Nature has a basic rule - use it or loose it. Thats why babies can drink milk with out a problem with lactose but when they dont drink it as often any more their body doesnt manufacture lactase and they have a reaction when they drink milk as they grow older and If you add anything to the body which is supposed to produce itself the body will shut down the making of that chemical and begin to start relying on the external source.

We dont know all of the chemistry which is going on in a dog's body when it manufactures its own ascorbic acid ,we dont know what other chemicals may be produced in the process either or how else it may affect the dog overall.Some of these things could be important for the dog's overall metabolism - we just dont have enough info to know this. For example if you give cortisone to fight inflammation for too long the adrenal glands will shut down - and the adrenal glands produce more than just cortisone.

We do know - give a dog vitamin C supplements and it will stop making its own - for ever. We also know that when you give a dog high doses of vitamin C the dog's body becomes stressed and it treats it as a poison - works like mad to equalize it and make it a normal blood level which is excreted via the kidneys with some research showing excess doses of vitamin C cause liver and kidney damage.

A dog needs about 40mg of vitamin C per day per kilo of their body weight.

Feeding foods which have vitamin C wont give you anywhere near that amount each day and they come with other nutrients to help the dog metabolise it so these foods wont do any damage as the dogs body is able to cope with these usual amounts and its easy for them to keep the blood levels consistent.

The problem lies in the fact that research shows giving large doses of vitamin C has a positive affect in treating injury or infection so its used as a form of preventative when in fact it should only be used as a medication - that is it helps the body to fight a temporary problem at the risk of temporary unpleasant side effects and at the possible expense of long term damage if it continues.

The added problem is that you dont get to see the damage it might do over extended periods but we shouldnt be giving this stuff just because we think it might do some preventative work any more than we should swallow anitbiotics every day in case.

Sol's dog needed it and it's 11 years old and it worked but its not good to assume that because it worked for this dog when it was needing it to have everyone racing out and supplementing with it to prevent it getting like sol was when the suppliments started - because its not that simple

Edited October 20, 2012 by Steve

[Steve]

By the way one of the above studies recommends supplementing feeding bitches so the pups get as much as possible in their milk . This will ensure we end up with entire breeds or lines of dogs which cant do what they need to do to be healthy - make their own. Stupid.

[Guest Labradork]

"We do know - give a dog vitamin C supplements and it will stop making its own - for ever..."

Where did you hear that? I'm not being argumentative or a smart arse; I have never heard that before and would be genuinely interested to know :)

I thought excess Vitamin C in a dog's body was eliminated in their wee/poo ???

http://www.whole-dog...res/5309-1.html

Edited October 20, 2012 by Labradork

[Steve]

"We do know - give a dog vitamin C supplements and it will stop making its own - for ever..."

Where did you hear that? I'm not being argumentative or a smart arse; I have never heard that before and would be genuinely interested to know :)

I thought excess Vitamin C in a dog's body was eliminated in their wee/poo ???

http://www.whole-dog...res/5309-1.html

It is eliminated in their wee but it makes their kidneys and liver work super hard to eliminate it to bring it back the level its supposed to be via the plasma. It basic chemistry if your body doesnt need to produce an enzyme over time its stops being able to produce it.

Edited to add Im not saying dont use it - Im saying use it sometimes as if its a medication or a temporary preventative in times of extreme stress etc. Don't just start supplementing young dogs on it because its the in thing to do

Edited October 20, 2012 by Steve

[Guest Labradork]

.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Labradork

[megan_]

Thanks Steve - I won't give him any then. Id always check with the vet first