Amstaff Vs Sbt

[Salukifan]

In my experience a lot of dogs can't read Boxers well. That can create issues in offlead situations too.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[ellz]

In my experience a lot of dogs can't read Boxers well. That can create issues in offlead situations too.

My Staffords over the years have mostly intensely disliked Boxers....I have no idea why they just have. There has never been any kind of incident. Maybe it is just because they can be so bouncy and "in your face"???

[Aidan3]

Whether you get a male or a female, or a SBT or a boxer, it doesn't really matter.

Could I just interject here as a breeder/owner of Staffords and say that I would always recommend a male Stafford over a female as a pet.....whether I've been unlucky or something else, I don't know...but I've always found the males to be a lot more tractable and easily dealt with.

As has been mentioned in this thread, I too believe that the word "bitch" was coined for a female Stafford!!!

I'd agree with that, but as far as how you handle and train them goes you wouldn't pick one over the other because of your own place in the pack or some physical ability to assert dominance that you may or may not have. How they interact with other dogs is a different story...

[Keira&Phoenix]

Just adding my 2 cents.

I avoid dog parks like most responsible bull breed owners (such as the ones on here). Not because my girl, because of other dogs. Just like everyone has stated, she won't start it, will finish it. There has been several occasions previously where I have gone to a dog park with a group of friends and their dogs and a strangers dog has gotten in my girls face, been asked politely by her to back off, they very rarely comply, they then start to chase her around and I end up having to grab the other dog or kick at it so she doesn't need to escalate. This is why I won't go anymore, because a) its not a healthy environment for her, and b) if I don't grab the other dog in time she will escalate and then she gets the blame because she is "one of those dogs".

Have to agree with Aiden2 re: "dominating the dog".

Stop watching Cesar Milan. Dominance is not what you think it is. And dogs are not plotting to take over the world in their spare time.

By being in control of all the resources ie: food, water, toys, sleeping spaces etc you are automatically the leader/in control. This is what dominance is: the control of a resource/s. Not physical dominance.

Developing a relationship based on mutual respect and trust is what is needed.

I have a female Pitt x and a female Ridgie X Mastiff, I have never in their lives needed to exert any dominance over them because we have functioning working relationships based on mutual trust and respect. Achieved completely using positive reinforcement and (non physical) positive punishment.

Back to the question at hand.

Staffy and Amstaff - Even if you heavily socialise as pups you may end up with a dog that is dog selective or aggressive.

Boxer probably a better choice if your wanting dog friendly, although will still need lots of socialisation.

All of these breeds are great companions, can spend the time alone (just make sure you teach it to be happy being alone while its a pup), great as walking/jogging/running partners. Boxer's tend to be a bit more bouncy then the other two.

Get a male, they are more relaxed, more cuddly and easier in general. Females are smarter and cheekier (the word bitch means what it does for a reason).

Males can be taught not to mark if that is a concern.

[megan_]

A question about "he won't start it, but he'll finish it". It is perfectly normal for one dog to give a dog a bit of a telling off "get out of my face/stop jumping on me" growl. For those that say their dog wouldn't start a fight but would finish it, would your dog respond to this gesture as a fight?

[Aidan3]

I think Boxers are highly underrated. In the old days they didn't tend to respond too well to correction-based training, plowing the paddock for an hour. I've had a number come to me and their owners have been amazed at what their supposedly "stupid" dog was capable of in a single session.

[ellz]

A question about "he won't start it, but he'll finish it". It is perfectly normal for one dog to give a dog a bit of a telling off "get out of my face/stop jumping on me" growl. For those that say their dog wouldn't start a fight but would finish it, would your dog respond to this gesture as a fight?

My Stafford boy wouldn't. He puts up with all manner of bolshy, tail over the back, pushy behaviour from my adult male (entire) American Cocker which other dogs would take as an instant challenge.

But that said, who knows what would happen in a dog park free-for-all. Seems that there are no rules or boundaries to behaviour there and with the wrong dogs it could be positively disasterous.

And could I add here, I feel EXACTLY the same way about the "puppy kindergartens" that are fashionable now with many large vet clinics. Most are simply a juvenile version of the dog park, being run by junior vet nurses who have absolutely no idea about the needs of individual breeds and personalities. I never recommend my puppies be taken to these. Waiting until the puppy is old enough for a structured obedience class is far more sensible imo.

[mantis]

Owning any bull breed means you need to be able to read body language and act on it. I have seen many staffys in dog parks, and what Pav says is smack on, they play hard and rough and don't take well to being told off by other dogs.This can escalate very quickly.

I do take my BT girl to one as she loves to play, as long as no running is involved, boxing and slamming is her thing, and labs are good boxing buddies, however i am very aware that she will never start anything but would finish it, and have left whenever a rude dog continually mounts her.

Also i hear they are very good at destroying stuff if left along time, and the staffys i have fostered could bounce over a 6 ft fence if they wanted too. :laugh:

It doesn't have to be a long time, my Kenny was a shocker when I left him alone. He chewed up many couches, futons, doonas & cushions, he also destroyed a 6 pack of toilet paper one day & made my backyard look like it had been snowing.

Saying that, you have to love them, as they are the sweetest doggies in the world.

[Rainy]

Just a quick point you are talking about Staffordshire Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier. If you see, or some one try's to sell you an English Stafford RUN A MILE !!!! if they can even get the name right i doubt that they would be breedeing for the correct outcome.

My SBT's would fit your reqirements quite well, my boy has more of a laid back attitude and loves a good snuggle however he is more protective of the property and family and wont back down from a percived threat from any dog or person, My bitch on the other hand loves anyone and everyone and will back away from any threatening behavior from other dogs.

As for the dog park debate well personally i refuse to have my dogs oflead with any dog i dont know, so they are a strict no go for me and i dont advise anyone to go to them either. its not nessaceraly the dog on the end of your lead that is the problem its the fact that you have no idea what the other dogs in the park could / would do to yours.

Im happy to give you some Stafford breeders websites that i belive are reputable if you want to shoot me a pm.

[jamie231]

I wouldn't describe Boxer temperament as being like the other two breeds.

What sort of temperament DO you like in a dog - can you describe it?

Hard question to answer, but I'll try. I like a (dare I say it) "masculine' type dog, I like the appearance of a muscular dog and I like a dog that is willing to defend it's owner and property.

In terms of temperament, I would say I prefer a dog that is CAPABLE of holding it's own in a fight, but takes a lot of pushing to do so. I'd like to think a stranger could approach me and my dog and be able to pat it.

i hope that helps !

Cheers

[ellz]

I wouldn't describe Boxer temperament as being like the other two breeds.

What sort of temperament DO you like in a dog - can you describe it?

Hard question to answer, but I'll try. I like a (dare I say it) "masculine' type dog, I like the appearance of a muscular dog and I like a dog that is willing to defend it's owner and property.

In terms of temperament, I would say I prefer a dog that is CAPABLE of holding it's own in a fight, but takes a lot of pushing to do so. I'd like to think a stranger could approach me and my dog and be able to pat it.

i hope that helps !

Cheers

OK, not a Stafford then.

I'm afraid as a breeder, I'm not fond of prospective purchasers who want a dog for appearance first and foremost. And Staffords make dreadful guard dogs...much better WATCH dogs....ie, WATCH the burglar come in the window, WATCH the burglar take the TV, HELP the burglar carry the DVD player and then jump in the car to go for a car ride.

Staffords are more than capable of holding their own in a fight, it is, after all, what they were bred for but they don't take a lot of pushing as a rule because quite often, the body language of the "pusher" is enough to have them on alert.

Strangers can most certainly approach my dogs for pats, especially if they are under 3 feet tall....but I prefer they not do so unless I give permission.

[Salukifan]

Scratch both Amstaffs and SBTs from your list then. ANY aggression towards people would be a serious breed fault.

If you want a dog that's protective but happy to be patted off its own turf, you're asking quite a bit, particularly when you add in the running partner factor. Frankly I wonder if a utility gundog might suit you better.

[Kavik]

I think it sounds like a Boxer would be more suited out of the breeds you say you prefer. Although I would say many dogs have problems reading the body language and play style of all 3 breeds, they can be quite in your face when playing with other dogs, and boxers stand quite upright in stance.

[jamie231]

great, this is why I've sought the opinions of this forum.

Thanks everybody, and I'm staring to get a better Idea. I think Amstaff is off the list now for me, the above points all suggest that it may not be as suitable for my needs. also i think male will be better suited.

I do have a question for the SBT breeders that have so kindly offered their opinions; I have been doing all the above things with a young (2y) old blue SBT male for the last two years and he has been perfect. He comes running/walking with me in the evenings, is stable when people approach us to pet him, and never gets into trouble with other dogs. when it is quiet i absolutely trust him to have a run off lead and he always comes back when called.

he has been ideal really; is this not indicative of the norm ???

really appreciate your responses, if this is not the case with most staffords then yes, perhaps I do need to be looking more towards a boxer or otherwise.

cheers,

jamie.

[Staffyluv]

I wouldn't describe Boxer temperament as being like the other two breeds.

What sort of temperament DO you like in a dog - can you describe it?

Hard question to answer, but I'll try. I like a (dare I say it) "masculine' type dog, I like the appearance of a muscular dog and I like a dog that is willing to defend it's owner and property.

In terms of temperament, I would say I prefer a dog that is CAPABLE of holding it's own in a fight, but takes a lot of pushing to do so. I'd like to think a stranger could approach me and my dog and be able to pat it.

i hope that helps !

Cheers

OK, not a Stafford then.

I'm afraid as a breeder, I'm not fond of prospective purchasers who want a dog for appearance first and foremost. And Staffords make dreadful guard dogs...much better WATCH dogs....ie, WATCH the burglar come in the window, WATCH the burglar take the TV, HELP the burglar carry the DVD player and then jump in the car to go for a car ride.

Staffords are more than capable of holding their own in a fight, it is, after all, what they were bred for but they don't take a lot of pushing as a rule because quite often, the body language of the "pusher" is enough to have them on alert.

Strangers can most certainly approach my dogs for pats, especially if they are under 3 feet tall....but I prefer they not do so unless I give permission.

Totally agree - not a guard dog at all.

None of ours have been.

However they are happy to be the meet and greet committee..

My current boy is a total wuss.. He has been bailed up by a few dogs now and he rolls over.

We have a little Pom at our park who tells him what to do.

My old guy wasn't like this at all - he was pretty friendly until a couple of other dogs got the better of him and then I couldn't have other dogs around him. It was all to stressful...

We've never had boxers but I have an aunt and uncle who have had a few - they love them and I have to admit all their dogs have been really lovely dogs.

[mantis]

I wouldn't describe Boxer temperament as being like the other two breeds.

What sort of temperament DO you like in a dog - can you describe it?

Hard question to answer, but I'll try. I like a (dare I say it) "masculine' type dog, I like the appearance of a muscular dog and I like a dog that is willing to defend it's owner and property.

In terms of temperament, I would say I prefer a dog that is CAPABLE of holding it's own in a fight, but takes a lot of pushing to do so. I'd like to think a stranger could approach me and my dog and be able to pat it.

i hope that helps !

Cheers

Sorry, but after reading this post, I don't think any Bull Breed or large breed is for you.

[Guest donatella]

I think it's totally over- generalising to say the staffys, amstaffs or bull breeds in general are not suitable for dog parks... Depends on the owner, depends on the individual dog, depends on the training and socialisation, depends on the park. Same as with absolutely any breed.

Just wanted to highlight that part of my previous post, seeing as the surrounding sentences have been commented on.

And I just wanted to reiterate, 99.9% of responsible Stafford owners do not subject their dogs to the free-for-all that is the average local dog park. It simply isn't worth the angst.

And no, it isn't the same as with absolutely any breed. When you own a bull breed, you take on a particular set of responsibilities. Some of these are not placing your dog in a situation that could endanger it, you or those around you. End of story.

I'd say the responsible owners are in the minority to be honest. Australia is over flowing with staffies, you only have to look at your local pound to see all the poorly bred ones. One of the most popular dogs around here and unfortunately the ideal dog for a lot of dickhead owners too.

[Guest donatella]

I think it's totally over- generalising to say the staffys, amstaffs or bull breeds in general are not suitable for dog parks... Depends on the owner, depends on the individual dog, depends on the training and socialisation, depends on the park. Same as with absolutely any breed.

Just wanted to highlight that part of my previous post, seeing as the surrounding sentences have been commented on.

And I just wanted to reiterate, 99.9% of responsible Stafford owners do not subject their dogs to the free-for-all that is the average local dog park. It simply isn't worth the angst.

And no, it isn't the same as with absolutely any breed. When you own a bull breed, you take on a particular set of responsibilities. Some of these are not placing your dog in a situation that could endanger it, you or those around you. End of story.

I'd say the responsible owners are in the minority to be honest. Australia is over flowing with staffies, you only have to look at your local pound to see all the poorly bred ones. One of the most popular dogs around here and unfortunately the ideal dog for a lot of dickhead owners too.

[ellz]

Precisely why I have never bred often.

Too many people who think they should own a Stafford and too few people who are actually what I term as "qualified".

They aren't a breed for everybody, they aren't a breed for people who base their choice upon appearance. They aren't a breed for somebody who wants a dog which will be a social butterfly. They aren't a breed for people who will leave them alone for hours on end and then complain because their house and/or garden has had a dramatic "makeover".

They are NOT a breed for somebody who isn't prepared to put in the hard yards to correctly raise and socialise them and help them to become a good member of society.

And yes, I sound negative. It's because I've seen too often the by-products of a dog that has been purchased/adopted for the wrong reasons and then blamed because they had a bad owner.....

Editing for spelling because I'm battling with new fingernails v touch typing......

Edited November 5, 2012 by ellz

[Dame Aussie]

My first dog was a Boxer, beautiful, loyal sooky boy, BUT he did not like strangers. This was partly our fault as there wasn't puppy pre school etc back in those days and he wasn't as well socialised as he could have been.

They're not what I would call an easy dog but just lovely to live with. I agree with HW though that a gun dog might be better for what you're after.