New Rescue

[Greytmate]

How is what you are describing different than this

That's a good question because the difference is quite large.

Steve has given you a broad overview of what sorts of things need to be considered in order for an organisation to avoid trouble.

I am busy today but will try to get back here tonight with a list of examples of what an individual would do to rehome a dog and how that differs from what an organisation is required to do. I will also be able to explain the different expectations the community has of the two.

[Greylvr]

How is what you are describing different than this

That's a good question because the difference is quite large.

Steve has given you a broad overview of what sorts of things need to be considered in order for an organisation to avoid trouble.

I am busy today but will try to get back here tonight with a list of examples of what an individual would do to rehome a dog and how that differs from what an organisation is required to do. I will also be able to explain the different expectations the community has of the two.

I am running to work but will check in tonight.

[Alkhe]

It's almost the difference between baking cookies for your friends or for a primary school fete or something, and opening a cookie shop. You can bake cookies and give them to your friends or sell them at a fete or something, but the requirements for doing that differ greatly to opening up a shop and selling them to the public. Even if it's just one shop with a little bit of floor space. It might seem disproportionate to have to think about insurance, business registration, food hygiene standards and preparation, documentation, council regulations and registration, body corporate issues, safety inspections..

If you just want to start a little business in a little shop, it might seem overkill to have to organise all of that, but it's vital, and doing it imperfectly or not doing it all will bite you in the arse, and may have adverse consequences for other small business owners and food sellers. The reason there ARE so many regulations and checks and balances, and why people will get uall up in arms about it being a nanny state etc etc, is a result of that.

That's the best parallel I can think of while I'm sweltering in this ridiculous heat at the moment :laugh: .

[Steve]

You would be amazed at how many start out simply thinking that saving a dog or two is going to be a cinch.

But many learn by trial and error and get kicked around with out much good coming out of it for the dogs or the community.

A lot of people have put in a hell of a lot of work to try to lift the image of rescue so the public are confident about taking in a second hand dog .When someone comes along with a great heart but not much of what it takes to start everyone has to weather through the negatives and that can impact on the entire industry of rescue dogs. It creates massive problems and increases stress levels and you see high burnout and frustration. Just when someone gets the hang of it they move on and all their knowledge and experience is lost. Its also stuff that you often do to run a rescue when no one else is watching so there is a temptation to cut corners. Why bother with the paperwork or the checks on the dogs and the potential homes,making good relationships with your foster carers bringing in just a dog or two over your legal numbers etc and then it all comes undone.

I know the list I gave is long and seems a huge task but even if you only think you will rescue one or two dogs per year the best thing you can do for yourself and the dogs is to work through it before you start because it shows you where the risks are and helps you to eliminate them and work out whether its all going to be worth it or not.

At the moment you are saying you want to educate people - well that's a great idea but who will you educate, where and how.What resources will you need to do that are there funding options such as grants etc available. Nothing is ever as simple as it sounds and for too long some rescue have operated by hit and miss and trial and error which will have a devastating impact on regulations and laws and its time that became a thing of the past. When you get caught up with ego and your own needs and politics and desires sometimes you loose sight of what is best for the dogs and that in my opinion is unforgivable. you cant know potential issues if you dont work through the basics FIRST.

[mita]

That's the best parallel I can think of while I'm sweltering in this ridiculous heat at the moment :laugh: .

Actually, I thought that was a very good parallel... pointing out the difference between baking cookies for a fete and opening a cookie shop.

You must think well in the heat. :)

[Greylvr]

It's almost the difference between baking cookies for your friends or for a primary school fete or something, and opening a cookie shop. You can bake cookies and give them to your friends or sell them at a fete or something, but the requirements for doing that differ greatly to opening up a shop and selling them to the public. Even if it's just one shop with a little bit of floor space. It might seem disproportionate to have to think about insurance, business registration, food hygiene standards and preparation, documentation, council regulations and registration, body corporate issues, safety inspections..

If you just want to start a little business in a little shop, it might seem overkill to have to organise all of that, but it's vital, and doing it imperfectly or not doing it all will bite you in the arse, and may have adverse consequences for other small business owners and food sellers. The reason there ARE so many regulations and checks and balances, and why people will get uall up in arms about it being a nanny state etc etc, is a result of that.

That's the best parallel I can think of while I'm sweltering in this ridiculous heat at the moment :laugh: .

Actually that is a great example!

[Greytmate]

It is a pretty good analogy, although even baking stuff for a fundraiser is a little more regulated in some jurisdictions than baking for friends.

There are many people who privately rehome adult dogs. Some are show dog people who might rehome a dog they have run on because it doesn't suit their breeding program, and some are greyhound owners who place their retired racers that are not suited for breeding with. Some are just pet owners who need to rehome their own dog for some unfortunate reason. As long as these dogs have good pet temperaments and are healthy and desexed, there is nothing wrong with them doing this and it is good that thes owners take responsibility for finding good homes for their dogs. The people who do this generally do not ask for or accept any help or resources from outsiders, as they regard it as their own responsibility and their own business.

There are some people who do this with dogs they have rescued. They have one dog at a time, they register it in their own name while they foster it, and they work totally independently. As long as the number of dogs sold each year is low, and the number kept is below limits, council generally has no problem with this. The people choose to work alone like this do so generally because they do not want to have to answer to other people, and that is fine as long as their actions don't affect anyone else.

Anyway that is my take on what private rehomers do, although other people might have different experiences with those who do this.

The difference between what these people do and what an organisation does is quite substantial. Some are because of regulations and some are to do with community expectations. Keeping in mind that rescue is unregulated enough to allow some very bad practices to happen, you would use Steve's guidelines to avoid a situation where angry people are coming after you.

A rescue org is expected to be open to enquiries from the public and from surrenderers and to return all calls and emails. For a gh rescue it means often being lied to and emotionally blackmailed by unscrupulous industry people and others looking to offload dogs with a minimum of guilt and cost. The pressure is great and so that is why all gh rescue orgs have to develop a strict policy on how to intake dogs fairly. And before you know it, you have a waiting list. Just like the big orgs do. Except the little orgs cannot process and rehome dogs as quickly as the bigger orgs and that can lead to even more grief from people pressuring you to take dogs.

A private rehomer can avoid this because they do not call themselves a rescue org or promote themslves as a rescue org and so there is no expectation that they will take in surrenders from anyone. They control where they choose to take their next dog from and do not have to be seen to be fair. It's their own business.

A rescue org must have a rigorous systems of referal of all problems to qualified professionals. To avoid being sued for negligence, any legal advice, veterinary advice, behavioural advice, etc must be provided by people with a professional qualification. While orgs are run by volunteers and staffed by volunteers, their knowledge and experience counts for nothing if they are taken to court. So organisations must have access to a network of professionals that they trust for advice on anything remotely doubtful.

Ethical private rehomers will use professionals like vets too, but private rehomers are not treated like businesses if taken to court. As an individual, there isn't the expectation that they follow best practice or any particular process As long as they don't lie or withhold information from buyers they are not likely to be held to the same high expectations as rescue orgs are.

Organisations need to have clear policies about who they adopt to so as not to be accused of being discriminatory or unfair. The public often get confused between organisations so if one org has an overly tough or confusing policy then it can lead to people being frustrated with rescue as a whole.

A private rehomer doesn't need a policy. They can sell their dog to whoever they feel like selling it to, with no apologies to anyone.

Organisations must be able to work under privacy laws which mean that information on people must be stored appropriately and controlled. Private rehomers do not have to worry so much about this as they are not keeping that sort of information on people aside from people who adopt a dog.

Organisations get constant enquiries from people needing advice about rescue dogs. They have a responsibility to provide the advice or refer to somebody that can help.

Private rehomers do not have to field these enquiries and are not expected to be experts on rescue or on the breed. They are not expected to hold a particular stance on racing and don't get grief from those who are against that particular stance. They don't have to answer question like that.

Organisations need to be able to deal with the fruit loops out there who are eager to foster but are found not to be suitable for fostering. They need to have a way to closely monitor and support all carers, and that may include drastic things like driving out to pick up a dog with no notice, or dealing with an injured dog where the carer has chosen to have it treated at the most expensive vet surgery in town instead of at the vet that you have an account with. Without a system in place for monitoring and training the carers, things just go wrong sooner or later. With dogs that have been institutionalised working dogs (greyhounds), there are particular problems that carers need to be educated about for them to rehabilitate these dogs into good housepets.

Private rehomers don't use carers and so don't have to run a foster care program. The only dogs they are responsible for are their own and they use individual judgement to train the dog in their own way and match it to the right home.

Organisations in Australia are pretty much regarded as businesses and the successful ones are run like that. Even orgs with only a few people in them. That's why a business plan is an essential tool to keep things on track.

I'm sorry if this has been a bit rambly. I don't have my computer so have to type this on a phone so please excuse any errors.

If you want to run an organisation and raise funds and promote dogs, you need to properly understand a lot of different categories of legal requirements, you need a reliable network of professionals that are willing to work with you at different times, you need to understand the culture of the racing industry, you need to understand how to make judgements on old racing injuries and have a basic knowledge of greyhound anatomy and common ailments, and you need to understand the culture and expectations of the community and dog buyers. If you want to do this the best way to start to learn is by fostering for a successful organisation and then helping them promote or fundraise.

But if you don't want to answer to anyone else about what you do, and if all that you say about yourself is true, then there is no reason why you shouldn't rehome your friend's dogs privately. Prepare the dog for life as a pet and advertise it for sale in the classifieds with just your private contact details.

There's probably more I could say on this but I'm finding it a bit hard to type on the phone, so if there is a particular area you want me to explain further I will do do when I have access to a computer again. This is my own interpretation of how different methods of rehoming work , so others may feel differently or have different ideas about it. But I hope that it has made it a little clearer about why so many people have spoken up, and given you realistic options to pursue your passion for helping greyhounds.

[Clyde]

Greylvr, running a rescue isn't rocket science like some would lead you to believe. Just be open and ethical and you'll do fine. Everyone starts somewhere and you already have experience. There is no perfect rescue group (well, I can actually think of a few but I am sure others would fault them :laugh:) so just do your best. The best thing you can probably do is step back from DOL a bit as it will cause no end of grief with criticisms etc. Interesting, that the three groups that I find the most well run and ethical, none have anything to do with this forum.

The only thing which makes me a bit uncomfortable, and I might not have understood it correctly - is taking dogs from the one trainer and asking for donations. It's kind of a bit too close to a private rehoming IYKWIM.

Anyway, good luck with it all!

[Greylvr]

It is a pretty good analogy, although even baking stuff for a fundraiser is a little more regulated in some jurisdictions than baking for friends.

There are many people who privately rehome adult dogs. Some are show dog people who might rehome a dog they have run on because it doesn't suit their breeding program, and some are greyhound owners who place their retired racers that are not suited for breeding with. Some are just pet owners who need to rehome their own dog for some unfortunate reason. As long as these dogs have good pet temperaments and are healthy and desexed, there is nothing wrong with them doing this and it is good that thes owners take responsibility for finding good homes for their dogs. The people who do this generally do not ask for or accept any help or resources from outsiders, as they regard it as their own responsibility and their own business.

There are some people who do this with dogs they have rescued. They have one dog at a time, they register it in their own name while they foster it, and they work totally independently. As long as the number of dogs sold each year is low, and the number kept is below limits, council generally has no problem with this. The people choose to work alone like this do so generally because they do not want to have to answer to other people, and that is fine as long as their actions don't affect anyone else.

Anyway that is my take on what private rehomers do, although other people might have different experiences with those who do this.

The difference between what these people do and what an organisation does is quite substantial. Some are because of regulations and some are to do with community expectations. Keeping in mind that rescue is unregulated enough to allow some very bad practices to happen, you would use Steve's guidelines to avoid a situation where angry people are coming after you.

A rescue org is expected to be open to enquiries from the public and from surrenderers and to return all calls and emails. For a gh rescue it means often being lied to and emotionally blackmailed by unscrupulous industry people and others looking to offload dogs with a minimum of guilt and cost. The pressure is great and so that is why all gh rescue orgs have to develop a strict policy on how to intake dogs fairly. And before you know it, you have a waiting list. Just like the big orgs do. Except the little orgs cannot process and rehome dogs as quickly as the bigger orgs and that can lead to even more grief from people pressuring you to take dogs.

A private rehomer can avoid this because they do not call themselves a rescue org or promote themslves as a rescue org and so there is no expectation that they will take in surrenders from anyone. They control where they choose to take their next dog from and do not have to be seen to be fair. It's their own business.

A rescue org must have a rigorous systems of referal of all problems to qualified professionals. To avoid being sued for negligence, any legal advice, veterinary advice, behavioural advice, etc must be provided by people with a professional qualification. While orgs are run by volunteers and staffed by volunteers, their knowledge and experience counts for nothing if they are taken to court. So organisations must have access to a network of professionals that they trust for advice on anything remotely doubtful.

Ethical private rehomers will use professionals like vets too, but private rehomers are not treated like businesses if taken to court. As an individual, there isn't the expectation that they follow best practice or any particular process As long as they don't lie or withhold information from buyers they are not likely to be held to the same high expectations as rescue orgs are.

Organisations need to have clear policies about who they adopt to so as not to be accused of being discriminatory or unfair. The public often get confused between organisations so if one org has an overly tough or confusing policy then it can lead to people being frustrated with rescue as a whole.

A private rehomer doesn't need a policy. They can sell their dog to whoever they feel like selling it to, with no apologies to anyone.

Organisations must be able to work under privacy laws which mean that information on people must be stored appropriately and controlled. Private rehomers do not have to worry so much about this as they are not keeping that sort of information on people aside from people who adopt a dog.

Organisations get constant enquiries from people needing advice about rescue dogs. They have a responsibility to provide the advice or refer to somebody that can help.

Private rehomers do not have to field these enquiries and are not expected to be experts on rescue or on the breed. They are not expected to hold a particular stance on racing and don't get grief from those who are against that particular stance. They don't have to answer question like that.

Organisations need to be able to deal with the fruit loops out there who are eager to foster but are found not to be suitable for fostering. They need to have a way to closely monitor and support all carers, and that may include drastic things like driving out to pick up a dog with no notice, or dealing with an injured dog where the carer has chosen to have it treated at the most expensive vet surgery in town instead of at the vet that you have an account with. Without a system in place for monitoring and training the carers, things just go wrong sooner or later. With dogs that have been institutionalised working dogs (greyhounds), there are particular problems that carers need to be educated about for them to rehabilitate these dogs into good housepets.

Private rehomers don't use carers and so don't have to run a foster care program. The only dogs they are responsible for are their own and they use individual judgement to train the dog in their own way and match it to the right home.

Organisations in Australia are pretty much regarded as businesses and the successful ones are run like that. Even orgs with only a few people in them. That's why a business plan is an essential tool to keep things on track.

I'm sorry if this has been a bit rambly. I don't have my computer so have to type this on a phone so please excuse any errors.

If you want to run an organisation and raise funds and promote dogs, you need to properly understand a lot of different categories of legal requirements, you need a reliable network of professionals that are willing to work with you at different times, you need to understand the culture of the racing industry, you need to understand how to make judgements on old racing injuries and have a basic knowledge of greyhound anatomy and common ailments, and you need to understand the culture and expectations of the community and dog buyers. If you want to do this the best way to start to learn is by fostering for a successful organisation and then helping them promote or fundraise.

But if you don't want to answer to anyone else about what you do, and if all that you say about yourself is true, then there is no reason why you shouldn't rehome your friend's dogs privately. Prepare the dog for life as a pet and advertise it for sale in the classifieds with just your private contact details.

There's probably more I could say on this but I'm finding it a bit hard to type on the phone, so if there is a particular area you want me to explain further I will do do when I have access to a computer again. This is my own interpretation of how different methods of rehoming work , so others may feel differently or have different ideas about it. But I hope that it has made it a little clearer about why so many people have spoken up, and given you realistic options to pursue your passion for helping greyhounds.

Ok I read all this but can you tell me what the difference is in say a private rescue. Someone that has no problems doing what you say the orgs do but on a smaller scale?

I have no problems opening my home to adopters, etc I have no problem networking with professionals etc but I do not have the desire to be a huge organization running massive fundraisers or anything like that. If someone wants to donate old beds, or some food, toys or something that would be helpful but as far as going out and trying to get grants or large sums of money there are no plans or desire for that.

Greylvr, running a rescue isn't rocket science like some would lead you to believe. Just be open and ethical and you'll do fine. Everyone starts somewhere and you already have experience. There is no perfect rescue group (well, I can actually think of a few but I am sure others would fault them :laugh:) so just do your best. The best thing you can probably do is step back from DOL a bit as it will cause no end of grief with criticisms etc. Interesting, that the three groups that I find the most well run and ethical, none have anything to do with this forum.

The only thing which makes me a bit uncomfortable, and I might not have understood it correctly - is taking dogs from the one trainer and asking for donations. It's kind of a bit too close to a private rehoming IYKWIM.

Anyway, good luck with it all!

I know its not rocket science :laugh: I find it very rewarding and love love rescuing it really is in my heart I believe its what I do best helping animals. I have helped so many animals not just dogs I use to save wild mustangs in Nevada training them and rehoming them now that was heartbreaking those poor horses.

No we will take from more than this one trainer but she is a start and we can branch out from there. Shelter dogs and owner surrenders if we have room if that makes sense. We are working on finding a bit or property to purchase which would allow us to a bit extra but we have no desire at this point to take in a large number of dogs to keep it fair on ourselves and the dogs kwim?

Thanks though I might just have to step away for a bit because I really shouldnt be doubting myself. I am a good person a damn good rescuer so why shoudlnt I help these dogs. I guess its just a play on words on how we will do it. Maybe I should just not care what people think as long as I am doing the right thing and properly placing healthy sound dogs what does it matter but it does bother me when people think I am not on the up and up because I am.

[trifecta]

Interesting, that the three groups that I find the most well run and ethical, none have anything to do with this forum.

I'm with you Clyde

[Greytmate]

Ok I read all this but can you tell me what the difference is in say a private rescue. Someone that has no problems doing what you say the orgs do but on a smaller scale?

You either operate as a private rehomer and adopt out dogs under your own name or you start an organisation or business and run the rescue under that structure and accept all applicable incorporation or business laws.

You seem to assume that only larger rescues need to do this, but the majority of rescue orgs in Australia are run on a micro scale and may have few or no volunteers.

There is no category of business in Australia that allows you to fundraise or sell animals under an organisation name without being subject to a lot of laws and standards that do not apply to a private individual selling a dog in their own name.

Read Steve's post again to learn more about what needs to be done to be considered an ethical organisation.

All the things you say you want to do (except involve other people in your rescue) are things that a good ethical private rehomer would do.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Greytmate

[Clyde]

Maybe I should just not care what people think as long as I am doing the right thing and properly placing healthy sound dogs what does it matter

:thumbsup:

[juice]

Just something that springs to mind.

If you are just taking from one trainer, basically giving her the easy ( free) way out of disposing of her dogs, what happens when other trainers cotton on and want to offload theirs onto you for nothing and start dumping them outside your place?

i have fostered many greys, and bull breeds, and own a bull breed atm, i would say greys are far more likely to want to kill a small fluffy than a bull breed.

[mita]

It's almost the difference between baking cookies for your friends or for a primary school fete or something, and opening a cookie shop. You can bake cookies and give them to your friends or sell them at a fete or something, but the requirements for doing that differ greatly to opening up a shop and selling them to the public.

That's the best parallel I can think of while I'm sweltering in this ridiculous heat at the moment :laugh: .

Actually that is a great example!

It also means you can choose which level you want to work at. And plan things accordingly....

[Greylvr]

Just something that springs to mind.

If you are just taking from one trainer, basically giving her the easy ( free) way out of disposing of her dogs, what happens when other trainers cotton on and want to offload theirs onto you for nothing and start dumping them outside your place?

i have fostered many greys, and bull breeds, and own a bull breed atm, i would say greys are far more likely to want to kill a small fluffy than a bull breed.

Something to consider, I was planning on picking the dogs up from the trainers houses.

[Greylvr]

Maybe I should just not care what people think as long as I am doing the right thing and properly placing healthy sound dogs what does it matter

:thumbsup:

Yeah why give up because of a few nay sayers Ill get this all worked out. Thanks to those that have supported me and given me good advice.

[Greylvr]

Just an update, I have made some connections with some greyhound rescues who like me dont think rescuing should be a competition. I will be in contact with them and hope to be able to network with a few rescues to be able to save more greyhounds. For me and a few other rescues its not about who gets the dog as long as a responsible rescue saves them and does right by them we are happy.

So thought I should just update you guys that we will go forward with rescuing and rehoming greyhounds as we can. We will also be networking with a few more greyhound rescues that do a great job to help where we can. Networking is important but its important you network with the groups that ethics are inline with your own.

I am sure this will be great for us as we can not only rescue but help these other rescues with transports and other things and they can help us grow into a great rescue so thats it, I am sure some will be very mad we are going forward but it doesnt matter to us what people say or think it matters that we can save dogs that need saving.

Ill keep in touch

[rebelsquest]

So have you gone with the name Homes for Hounds, or is it just coincidence that there is a new Melbourne based greyhound rescue with that name?

[anniek]

So have you gone with the name Homes for Hounds, or is it just coincidence that there is a new Melbourne based greyhound rescue with that name?

oh is that the one bringing greys down from Sydney via pound rounds?

[Greylvr]

Yes we did go with Homes For Hounds

Edited December 12, 2012 by Greylvr