Steve Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 You can have a bunch of people who decide to start a club or a group and never incorporate and then you can have someone come up and say - Here's a hundred bucks to use for ..... and as long as you use it for that .... No big deal you never even have to declare it or show it as far as income is concerned but if you use it for something else they could scream about it and sue you. But you cant actually ask for donations which includes having a make a donation link on your facebook or website etc unless you have approvals to fund raise in each state and when you are asking for donations on the net you have to ensure you have approvals to fund raise in all of the states unless you specifically say only those in one state can donate. Same with raffles. You can run auctions and sell stuff to anyone but that then becomes taxable income and you need an ABN which you can get as an unincorporated entity. Its illegal to operate using a business name which isnt registered with Asic [ used to be fair trading] and you need an ABN for that too. If you want to pay no tax you need to register as a charity which can be done when you apply for your ABN .You dont pay tax on donations anyway but you do pay tax on salable items if you dont have this. If you want to accept donations and allow people who donate to claim that as a tax deduction you have to apply for a deductible Gift recipient status via the ATO. If you are not an incorporated association you can be sued personally if you make a mistake if you are incorporated the association is liable and you wont loose the house. Its possible to get approvals to fundraise if you are not incorporated but its harder in some states its hell and rescue is able to get charitable status but this all comes with the need for yearly audits and accountability and that is expensive and a pain in the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniek Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) If you are not an incorporated association you can be sued personally if you make a mistake if you are incorporated the association is liable and you wont loose the house. Unless of course members of the committee haven't taken due care, or have knowingly acted irresponsibly or illegally. Incorporating is not a cop out to avoid responsibilities. Edited December 21, 2012 by anniek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc You still need to identify exactly who you are, keep a separate bank account and follow other rules. You can't just fund raise under a fake name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc The dog isn't in your care? It's owned by someone else, and currently in a different persons house. You have no ties to the dog legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc You still need to identify exactly who you are, keep a separate bank account and follow other rules. You can't just fund raise under a fake name. Yup no problems there we have a seperate account for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc You still need to identify exactly who you are, keep a separate bank account and follow other rules. You can't just fund raise under a fake name. Yup no problems there we have a seperate account for the dogs. That is only one of many obligations. I'm not really trusting anything you say anymore, you just agree with people and do the opposite. So instead of replying perhaps you should take it as a warning to go and get advice on your responsibilities. You have no legal rights over the two dogs you 'rescued' last week, they are not in permanent homes, and so you had just better hope, like we all do, that nothing bad happens to those dogs. You cannot get them desexed or sell them until they are legally yours, and you should not be listing them for adoption. If Lucky causes any problems, you can expect to be sued personally, as you selected her from a pound and placed her in the community under the guise of an organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc The dog isn't in your care? It's owned by someone else, and currently in a different persons house. You have no ties to the dog legally. Yes. Why do you keep saying the dog is in your care when you have told us the dog is with someone 5 minutes away from you?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greylvr Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc The dog isn't in your care? It's owned by someone else, and currently in a different persons house. You have no ties to the dog legally. Yes. Why do you keep saying the dog is in your care when you have told us the dog is with someone 5 minutes away from you?! The dog is staying in a foster home which we pay for everything for it why can't you guys get it through your heads . Anyway I will leave you to wallow in your shit storm and have fun doesn't mean anything all the rescues I have talked to have said the same thing and don't even come here and these are some great rescues So have fun with your drama and crap talking. We will continue to do our thing which is saving dogs and getting our paperwork together and going forward. Stalk the Facebook if you want to see the wonderful things we achieve the more likes we get the better so thanks for your help in liking our page and spreading the word of our group. Have a great Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Hopefully the donations received have been passed on to the people who actually have the dogs, Ina and Lucky. I'm sure the rescue that took on Ina would be grateful. Cause they too can't do anything with the dog at the moment cause there is a lack of paperwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc The dog isn't in your care? It's owned by someone else, and currently in a different persons house. You have no ties to the dog legally. Yes. Why do you keep saying the dog is in your care when you have told us the dog is with someone 5 minutes away from you?! The dog is staying in a foster home which we pay for everything for it why can't you guys get it through your heads . Anyway I will leave you to wallow in your shit storm and have fun doesn't mean anything all the rescues I have talked to have said the same thing and don't even come here and these are some great rescues So have fun with your drama and crap talking. We will continue to do our thing which is saving dogs and getting our paperwork together and going forward. Stalk the Facebook if you want to see the wonderful things we achieve the more likes we get the better so thanks for your help in liking our page and spreading the word of our group. Have a great Christmas. you don't have to like your FB page to see it. And the word is being spread but not in the way you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 The dog is staying in a foster home which we pay for everything for it why can't you guys get it through your heads . Nobody can seem to get it through your head that you are not the legal owner of these dogs in any sense. To keep saying they are your dogs is misleading. Just because you feel responsible for them doesn't mean that you have any rights over them, you are in no position to help them if they are neglected or abused or are seized by authorities. You put the dogs in a situation that you have no legal control over at all, and this is completely unethical to do. An ethical rescue has the dogs signed into their own name as a matter of priority, and then draws up a written contract with any foster carer they place their dogs with. If the dog is not in your name, any contract you have with the carer is invalid. You are completely ignorant of Australian law and community expectations. You are a classic example of dodgy rescue in almost every way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crickets Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 The dog is staying in a foster home which we pay for everything for it why can't you guys get it through your heads . Nobody can seem to get it through your head that you are not the legal owner of these dogs in any sense. To keep saying they are your dogs is misleading. Just because you feel responsible for them doesn't mean that you have any rights over them, you are in no position to help them if they are neglected or abused or are seized by authorities. You put the dogs in a situation that you have no legal control over at all, and this is completely unethical to do. An ethical rescue has the dogs signed into their own name as a matter of priority, and then draws up a written contract with any foster carer they place their dogs with. If the dog is not in your name, any contract you have with the carer is invalid. You are completely ignorant of Australian law and community expectations. You are a classic example of dodgy rescue in almost every way. Ain't that the truth Greytmate! It used to be one of the hardest things I had to deal with in rescue....saying 'no' to a dog in need that I could not get surrender paperwork for. I was absolutely no use to the dog until I could say it was legally mine. If the subject matter in this thread wasn't so serious with such serious & far reaching implications, it would be the funniest thing i'd read in a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Oh well. If people want to delude themselves, so be it. Karma, or a lawsuit, will come back and bite them on the arse eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Oh well. If people want to delude themselves, so be it. Karma, or a lawsuit, will come back and bite them on the arse eventually. And they will blame someone else, as they never take responsibility for anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyd Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I feel for the group that made the donation in good faith to what they thought was a legitimate rescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Oh well. If people want to delude themselves, so be it. Karma, or a lawsuit, will come back and bite them on the arse eventually. The thing I am worried about is the implications for legitimate, law abiding and ethical rescue organisations. Unfortunately it can only take one bad experience with a dodgy rescue to prevent some pounds/organisations/people releasing dogs to OTHER rescue groups. What's to stop a pound going "well, we released a dog to rescue X and look what happened - it got shuffled around from owner to owner, and nobody even knows where it is anymore. Rescues are bleeding hearts with no understanding of how the system operates here." It doesn't matter what a good rescue does, if that's the attitude of a pound, and the experience they've had, it affects OTHER, legitimate rescues. Damage done. I am beyond caring what happens to this "rescue" and Greyluvr. It's the consequences for everybody else that now concern me. The way the law (and society more broadly) work tends to be that when something goes wrong, laws and requirements will be put in place or tightened to prevent it happening again. In this case, some idiot acting illegally and naively, and flouting laws, regulations and practices has already done the kind of damage that may come back to bite EVERYBODY on the arse. The damage is done. I wish she'd just float away quietly and let everyone mop up the mess and move on from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Please tell me I've misinterpreted your Facebook post and Lucky is not being moved again?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniek Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Please tell me I've misinterpreted your Facebook post and Lucky is not being moved again?! oh FFS - and the other one went somewhere without a bed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) In Victoria you only need a license if you take in more than 10,000 dollars which we are not. It doesn't count if people want to donate toys etc we do have a dog in our care we pay food vet toys etc Dunno who told you that but Id get it in writing if I were you. You dont have to apply to the Victora Fair trading dept if you dont get more than 10,000 in donations but thats ONLY after you have non profit status awarded you via the ATO. You still have t comply with accountability and audits. If you dont get 10,000 a year paying for an accountant and audits will take a fair chunk out of that before you start . You will also need public liability insurance and volunteers insurance - how much will be left of your 10,000 to pay for the dog's expenses ? Edited December 22, 2012 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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