Another One Bites The Dust

[Miranda]

Thanks Miranda, I do love the Gordons. They even have enough coat for me! Possibly not crazy enough ... ;)

Oh I don't know, they do have their moments :laugh:

Unfortunately the biggest problem in all breed clubs is getting people on committee, too many members (not in our club thank goodness) love to whinge, but aren't prepared to do anything positive to instigate change, it's very easy to sit on the sidelines and complain, not so easy to join committee and actually do something. At the moment we have two pet owners on committee, one is our newsletter editor and one is our obedience co-ordinator and also runs breed rescue (and horror of horrors she also owns a crossbreed but guess what, she hasn't been expelled from the club :D) Neither of them is involved in showing.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Miranda

[Sheridan]

So, there were 299 registrations of maltese in 2011.

My breed registrations in 2011:

• kerry blue terriers - 50
• wheaten terriers - 70

And there were breeds with far fewer registrations. A breed club makes no difference at all to increasing registrations.

I agree with Crickets. A breed club offers little to the pet owner as it's all about showing. You can do that without a breed club.

Thats scarey. So few of the general public are even aware of the huge variety of choice they have in pedigree dogs,and wouldn't have a clue what a wheaten or Kerry Blue is.I was rapt to see pics on DOL not long ago of a some ones Lakeland...I'd forgotten them,though they were a favourite when I was younger.Made my day :)

Actually, that's pretty good for wheatens and kerries.

[Steve]

Big politics and its where you see some of the worst of the dog world. - not for me.

Please don't generalise Steve, a lot of breed clubs do their very best for their members. Even though we are a minority breed we run a very successful club and have a large membership. Not all breed clubs are the same, the fact that you had a negative experience with one club doesn't give you the right to tar all clubs with the same brush.

Miranda Im not going to get into the crap here because I dont think its in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with breed clubs is not just about the ones I have been a member of and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally.

[Sheridan]

Thanks Miranda, I do love the Gordons. They even have enough coat for me! Possibly not crazy enough ... ;)

Oh I don't know, they do have their moments :laugh:

Unfortunately the biggest problem in all breed clubs is getting people on committee, too many members (not in our club thank goodness) love to whinge, but aren't prepared to do anything positive to instigate change, it's very easy to sit on the sidelines and complain, not so easy to join committee and actually do something. At the moment we have two pet owners on committee, one is our newsletter editor and one is our obedience co-ordinator and also runs breed rescue (and horror of horrors she also owns a crossbreed but guess what, she hasn't been expelled from the club :D) Neither of them is involved in showing.

Perhaps that's the key. Don't have people in competition with each other in important positions.

[Salukifan]

Thanks Miranda, I do love the Gordons. They even have enough coat for me! Possibly not crazy enough ... ;)

Oh I don't know, they do have their moments :laugh:

Unfortunately the biggest problem in all breed clubs is getting people on committee, too many members (not in our club thank goodness) love to whinge, but aren't prepared to do anything positive to instigate change, it's very easy to sit on the sidelines and complain, not so easy to join committee and actually do something. At the moment we have two pet owners on committee, one is our newsletter editor and one is our obedience co-ordinator and also runs breed rescue (and horror of horrors she also owns a crossbreed but guess what, she hasn't been expelled from the club :D) Neither of them is involved in showing.

Perhaps that's the key. Don't have people in competition with each other in important positions.

Assuming of course that you have the luxury of choice. People aren't lining up for such jobs and with volunteers, you work with what you get.

[Miranda]

Big politics and its where you see some of the worst of the dog world. - not for me.

Please don't generalise Steve, a lot of breed clubs do their very best for their members. Even though we are a minority breed we run a very successful club and have a large membership. Not all breed clubs are the same, the fact that you had a negative experience with one club doesn't give you the right to tar all clubs with the same brush.

Miranda Im not going to get into the crap here because I dont think its in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with breed clubs is not just about the ones I have been a member of and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally.

Steve, just suppose I posted:

'I owned a couple of Maremmas and I'd rather own just about any other breed than ever go there again. Nasty temperament and where you see some of the worst traits in dogs'

Would you not have replied requesting me not to generalise and tar all Maremmas with the same brush? And what would you think if I replied

'Steve I'm not going to get into the crap here because I don't think it's in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with Maremma is not just about the ones I've owned and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally'

Need I say more?

Anyway my apologies to all for going OT, I will now bow out of this thread :)

Edited December 20, 2012 by Miranda

[jerry lee]

Big politics and its where you see some of the worst of the dog world. - not for me.

Please don't generalise Steve, a lot of breed clubs do their very best for their members. Even though we are a minority breed we run a very successful club and have a large membership. Not all breed clubs are the same, the fact that you had a negative experience with one club doesn't give you the right to tar all clubs with the same brush.

Miranda Im not going to get into the crap here because I dont think its in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with breed clubs is not just about the ones I have been a member of and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally.

Steve, just suppose I posted:

'I owned a couple of Maremmas and I'd rather own just about any other breed than ever go there again. Nasty temperament and where you see some of the worst traits in dogs'

Would you not have replied requesting me not to generalise and tar all Maremmas with the same brush? And what would you think if I replied

'Steve I'm not going to get into the crap here because I don't think it's in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with Maremma is not just about the ones I've owned and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally'

Need I say more?

Anyway my apologies to all for going OT, I will now bow out of this thread :)

The difference is Steve is speaking from personal experience while you are speaking as a person in denial.

It's not just dog clubs that suffer the little empire builders syndrome, it happens in all types of clubs, not to be confused with only clubs of any particular persuasion.

[Miranda]

Big politics and its where you see some of the worst of the dog world. - not for me.

Please don't generalise Steve, a lot of breed clubs do their very best for their members. Even though we are a minority breed we run a very successful club and have a large membership. Not all breed clubs are the same, the fact that you had a negative experience with one club doesn't give you the right to tar all clubs with the same brush.

Miranda Im not going to get into the crap here because I dont think its in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with breed clubs is not just about the ones I have been a member of and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally.

Steve, just suppose I posted:

'I owned a couple of Maremmas and I'd rather own just about any other breed than ever go there again. Nasty temperament and where you see some of the worst traits in dogs'

Would you not have replied requesting me not to generalise and tar all Maremmas with the same brush? And what would you think if I replied

'Steve I'm not going to get into the crap here because I don't think it's in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with Maremma is not just about the ones I've owned and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally'

Need I say more?

Anyway my apologies to all for going OT, I will now bow out of this thread :)

The difference is Steve is speaking from personal experience while you are speaking as a person in denial.

Oh dear it looks as if I'll have to bow in again :laugh:

Of course I'm speaking from personal experience, I've been a general/committee member of breed clubs for nearly 40 years :)

[asal]

well excuse me for posting. I still think it's a shame clubs close.

dont feel you said the wrong thing, actually you will be getting the last laught. IF AND I MEAN IF?

There are any ANKC members left in the next 10 years, they will have to do it.

it was only the existance of thousands of stumpy tailed cattle dogs that the breed is again an ankc breed, well at the moment. although unless the hunt and kill reg'd breeders by the animal libber and they who must not be named.

its lucky for those who like them they are safe and well in the great unwashed enclave of the unknown and untracables.

At the rate its going, dogs will be a black market, cant advertise any to sell, it will be word of mouth only.

think im being alarmist?

think again. my treatment when that officer turned up to "inspect" a registered breeder, changed like from dark to light, the minute i was no longer one of THEM.

one second I was the enemy to be found lacking at all costs to cosy chat and nice to meet you. real eye opener. the chnge when it was obvious i had no breeding dogs anymore.

chilling too.

Edited December 20, 2012 by asal

[jerry lee]

Big politics and its where you see some of the worst of the dog world. - not for me.

Please don't generalise Steve, a lot of breed clubs do their very best for their members. Even though we are a minority breed we run a very successful club and have a large membership. Not all breed clubs are the same, the fact that you had a negative experience with one club doesn't give you the right to tar all clubs with the same brush.

Miranda Im not going to get into the crap here because I dont think its in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with breed clubs is not just about the ones I have been a member of and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally.

Steve, just suppose I posted:

'I owned a couple of Maremmas and I'd rather own just about any other breed than ever go there again. Nasty temperament and where you see some of the worst traits in dogs'

Would you not have replied requesting me not to generalise and tar all Maremmas with the same brush? And what would you think if I replied

'Steve I'm not going to get into the crap here because I don't think it's in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with Maremma is not just about the ones I've owned and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally'

Need I say more?

Anyway my apologies to all for going OT, I will now bow out of this thread :)

The difference is Steve is speaking from personal experience while you are speaking as a person in denial.

Oh dear it looks as if I'll have to bow in again :laugh:

Of course I'm speaking from personal experience, I've been a general/committee member of breed clubs for nearly 40 years :)

Which, in many cases, is the problem.

Your club may just be the bestest little club on the planet.

Obviously Steve didn't have the enlightening experience of membership.

She must have been unforunate enough to experience the same despotic attitudes lots of other clubs display.

As have I.

[asal]

Big politics and its where you see some of the worst of the dog world. - not for me.

Please don't generalise Steve, a lot of breed clubs do their very best for their members. Even though we are a minority breed we run a very successful club and have a large membership. Not all breed clubs are the same, the fact that you had a negative experience with one club doesn't give you the right to tar all clubs with the same brush.

Miranda Im not going to get into the crap here because I dont think its in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with breed clubs is not just about the ones I have been a member of and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally.

Steve, just suppose I posted:

'I owned a couple of Maremmas and I'd rather own just about any other breed than ever go there again. Nasty temperament and where you see some of the worst traits in dogs'

Would you not have replied requesting me not to generalise and tar all Maremmas with the same brush? And what would you think if I replied

'Steve I'm not going to get into the crap here because I don't think it's in the best interests of purebred dogs but my experience with Maremma is not just about the ones I've owned and I get why some people don't have a great experience with them generally'

Need I say more?

Anyway my apologies to all for going OT, I will now bow out of this thread :)

The difference is Steve is speaking from personal experience while you are speaking as a person in denial.

Oh dear it looks as if I'll have to bow in again :laugh:

Of course I'm speaking from personal experience, I've been a general/committee member of breed clubs for nearly 40 years :)

Yes, Steve.

is right.

it was a fellow member of my breed club who set the seizure of stringy up to get me kicked out wth a conviction.

I constantly tried to get them to understand "the more diminutave preferred" was destruction of the breed to ceaser only deliveries.

only pedigree dogs exposed achieved the deletion. Show breeders seem to either wear blinkers or too scred to speak up ? so the stuff that gives fodder to the libbers

(I know I promised to never post again.)

its tough to read this stuff and see how IGNORANT everyone seems to be of what is going on

Edited December 20, 2012 by asal

[Salukifan]

...

Your club may just be the bestest little club on the planet.

Obviously Steve didn't have the enlightening experience of membership.

She must have been unforunate enough to experience the same despotic attitudes lots of other clubs display.

As have I.

I don't think its unfair to suggest that one person's (or even more than one persons') negative experiences shouldn't colour the entire debate JL.

I also haven't had experiences that put me off club membership. All breed clubs elect their Committees. They are required to under ANKC regulations. If people care enough about how things are run, there are methods of changing them. Fact is most don't and they get the Committees they deserve as a result. You're struggling to get a turn out to a lot of AGMs.

I enjoy the activities of the clubs I'm a member of. So do a lot of people. Sure some folk don't but they can change things if they choose to.

It's the Marvin attitudes of some of those within the ANKC fold (and those swiping from outside) that put a lot of newbs off the purebred dog world. People should be given a balanced view and allowed to decide for themselves rather than deterred by a heap of negativity.

[Miranda]

Which, in many cases, is the problem.

Your club may just be the bestest little club on the planet.

Obviously Steve didn't have the enlightening experience of membership.

She must have been unforunate enough to experience the same despotic attitudes lots of other clubs display.

As have I.

jerry lee I am sure that some breed clubs do display 'despotic attitudes', but the point I am making is that one shouldn't make gross generalisations, unless you've been a member of every breed club in existence you can't possibly know that every club is the same.

And I do agree that one of the big problems with breed clubs is the lack of new blood on their committees, there are certain personality types that, because they've run the club for so long, begin to think that they own it (not sure if you were including me as one of these types, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :)). But this isn't always their fault as the general members allow this to happen by refusing to participate. The solution is to get new people, including pet owners, onto committees to join in the running of the club. Easier said than done I know, but it is possible, it just requires good communication and a little effort. Once again I am speaking from personal experience.

And yes our club is definitely 'the bestest little club on the planet' :laugh:

[Diva]

I am not sure if the number of dogs registered necessarily directly corelates with breed club decline, my breed maintains 3 state breed clubs. Not easy I am sure but we have a lot less registered each year than Maltese do. And while I don't want to add to the negativity, I think a lot of clubs, not just dog clubs, struggle to maintain a working membership base these days, there is so much else competing for people's time. Add in the aging demographic in dog showing, a little breed politics and a few exclusive cliques (and I am not saying that is so for the Malts, I have no idea about them), and maybe combining into multi breed clubs does become a better solution for some breeds. Or even better having a strong non-showing/companion/performance presence on the executive. I am a member from a distance of 2 or our 3 clubs - I haven't joined the third and closest because I am allergic to breed politics, and it is easiest to avoid that in the more distant clubs. Not perhaps the bravest of attitudes but once bitten and all that.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Diva

[jerry lee]

...

Your club may just be the bestest little club on the planet.

Obviously Steve didn't have the enlightening experience of membership.

She must have been unforunate enough to experience the same despotic attitudes lots of other clubs display.

As have I.

I don't think its unfair to suggest that one person's (or even more than one persons') negative experiences shouldn't colour the entire debate JL.

I also haven't had experiences that put me off club membership. All breed clubs elect their Committees. They are required to under ANKC regulations. If people care enough about how things are run, there are methods of changing them. Fact is most don't and they get the Committees they deserve as a result. You're struggling to get a turn out to a lot of AGMs.

I enjoy the activities of the clubs I'm a member of. So do a lot of people. Sure some folk don't but they can change things if they choose to.

It's the Marvin attitudes of some of those within the ANKC fold (and those swiping from outside) that put a lot of newbs off the purebred dog world. People should be given a balanced view and allowed to decide for themselves rather than deterred by a heap of negativity.

Censorship of opinions, such as Steves, or indeed attacking the opinions with misquided hyperbole should not go unchallenged either HW.

Try getting a true but uncomplementary missive printed in your state bodies journal & see how far you go.

The three monkeys gig doesn't cut it in a democracy....or at least it shouldn't

" If you always do what you have always done,

You will always get what you have always got"

Edited December 20, 2012 by jerry lee

[asal]

I know what I would like to say but I would be hung and quartered on here for doing so, I blame part of this problem on the limited register good in theory bad in practice.

BANG ON.

along with the desperateratiom by anyone who does have a purebred with main rego to NEVER let a newbie have main rego in case they puppy farm it.

as well the now wide held belief to be ethicl you must be able to say "I never sell my puppies on main register"

Ethical to me, has become as much a swear word as the now acceptable f*#% once was.

There is still the bright side, I suspect I will live to see, soon every one will be ethical because no one can find a M/R pup anyway.

Still get the giggles over an acquaintance who was one of the ultra ethicals....nope never sold a M/R pup. went on holidays and left dogs with relative. one came in season and the neighbouring dogs started being a nusisance...so got em all desexed...vet was sooooo helpful.

Well she can never slip from her ethical perch now, not a soul she could get a descandant from to get started again. To me they arent Ethical but Deadend, breeders.

Edited December 20, 2012 by asal

[Baileys mum]

I just had a quick look at the ANKC puppy registration statistics, & sadly noticed that in 1988 there was 817 Australian terrier puppies registered, but last year there where only 272, so the numbers have really declined alot in 23 years. The breed is however much more popular these days in the USA & Europe.

I also noticed that in 1988 there where 2,019 Maltese puppies registered, but in 2011 only 299, so yes the numbers this gorgeous little breed are really declining too.

I also thought it interesting that in 1988 there where 2,444 Staffordshire Bull terrier puppies registered, & in 2011 there where 4,483 registered...nearlly doubling in number. So I guess its really what breeds are popular at the time, but it is very scary & worrying to see some of our beloved breeds declining so much in numbers.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Baileys mum

[Salukifan]

Censorship of opinions, such as Steves, or indeed attacking the opinions with misquided hyperbole should not go unchallenged either HW.

Try getting a true but uncomplementary missive printed in your state bodies journal & see how far you go.

The three monkeys gig doesn't cut it in a democracy....or at least it shouldn't

" If you always do what you have always done,

You will always get what you have always got"

Disagreement isn't censorship.

I have no idea what you mean by a "true but uncomplimentary missive". A letter? If it's not complementary about an individual and its printed, its defamation territory. No editor is going to do that.

Democracy only works with the participation of the body politic. Believe me when I say that CC members get the Councils they deserve. Queensland's elections are a case in point.

It's a shite load of work to be on Club and CC committees. From where I sit you tend to see the same folk lining up for mulitple gigs and the rest do sweet FA. If people want things to change then perhaps its time for them to step up and do it rather than whine bout how things are now.

[Miranda]

Censorship of opinions, such as Steves, or indeed attacking the opinions with misquided hyperbole should not go unchallenged either HW.

Try getting a true but uncomplementary missive printed in your state bodies journal & see how far you go.

The three monkeys gig doesn't cut it in a democracy....or at least it shouldn't

" If you always do what you have always done,

You will always get what you have always got"

Disagreeing with a post isn't censorship jerry lee.

Have you ever been on the committee of a breed club?

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'. Attributed to Burke :)

[jerry lee]

Censorship of opinions, such as Steves, or indeed attacking the opinions with misquided hyperbole should not go unchallenged either HW.

Try getting a true but uncomplementary missive printed in your state bodies journal & see how far you go.

The three monkeys gig doesn't cut it in a democracy....or at least it shouldn't

" If you always do what you have always done,

You will always get what you have always got"

Disagreeing with a post isn't censorship jerry lee.

Have you ever been on the committee of a breed club?

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'. Attributed to Burke :)

Attacking an opinion & attempting to disparage it because you don't agree with it is attempted censorship, same horse, different cart.

If you actually did own maremmas & that was you honest opinion, it would be fair comment.

But the wording suggested it was only malicious hyperbole.

In my eyes, I saw evil....well maybe not exactly evil, but naughtiness none the less.

So I spoke against it.

Mr Burke should happy don't you think?

Have I ever been on the committee of a breed club?

Yes.

It didn't take long to figure out all issues were well & truly sorted before any meetings were convened. Meetings were merely a vehicle to record the prearranged votes. The clique ruled...& still does as far as I know.

I attended three meetings. Same old same old at each.

I then served only as a volunteer if needed.

HW,

Uncomplimentary is not necessarily defamatory.

It could be in relation to a matter published in a previous issue for e.g.

Which is an actual example. It was a statement made by the president which I personally know of four members who disagreed with so strongly they all wrote in. I would image there were many more.

None were published.

Once upon a time there were many ''uncomplimentary" letters complaining about poor facilities, or suspect handling, suspect judging etc, etc.

Not any more. Only thank you notes these days.

Censorship rules when a clique rules.