Tralee Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Jo, If you look through the thread since the beginning of the pink nose comments you will not find me supporting either side. I am quite capable of considering both arguments, analysing and synthesising the material, and then making my own final evaluation. What you will see, however, is a lot of rattling inside my head. I am not breeding 'pele rosa' dogs. In fact, I don't currently have a bitch here at all. No one has said that nose skin cancer is restricted to dogs with depigmented noses. What has been said it that the risk is higher than if the nose is fully pigmented. Then the confounds have not been eliminated and the science has no VALIDITY. So all lines are contaminated by this gene because people are putting prettiness above health and working ability. Not all dogs go to working homes. I would like to think that we could be working towards some kind of a protocol for dogs that appear with 'pepe rosa' A small gene pool is not a disaster if you breed inteligently, if you are falling for the AR garbage you need to go do some more reading. It is entirely possible to have a very small population of healthy animals if you select wisely and cull ruthlessly. ... it just means a bunch of people are again breeding for the ring and forgetting that health is the most important thing to consider. I'm not familiar with AR material. Why would I read rubbish in the first place? There is no way I'd risk introducing a defective enzyme producing gene that is at best unknown and worst capable of causing significant disease just because I wanted to do better in the ring. Breeding isn't for pussies. Then this is the faith you are trying to peddle. If its unknown then you only believe it is so. I have a lot of experience with the unknown, enough to know nothing remains hidden, there is evidence if one knows where to look. The question then is: What have I seen? I think my answer has already been stated. pussies. lol Edited May 6, 2013 by Tralee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Do you ever use sunscreen? I would hate to see a sub type of a working breed that was unable to ever be fit for purpose. Do you realise that you are suggesting that there be a different category for pink nose Maremma that includes no working. What is a Maremma that can't work? It boils down to this. If breeders don't take the gene seriously by the time the effects of it are known it will be too late because the gene will be widespread. Why take the risk because it looks pretty? You have no clue about the health of the dogs in Italy with pink noses, unless you have their blood test results you can't take their word for it. It's a disorder, I think you are forgetting that, even the brown (not pink) nose dogs have a disorder. Plenty of Australian breeders lie about their dog's health, don't think the Italians are above that. They don't seem to have been doing such a great job with Maremma, there is a big crisis with hips isn't there. I wouldn't be looking to favourably on a group of breeders that let something as important as hips get out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 I've only read the last four or five pages. I have no idea about Tralee's breeding program or his individual dogs. But I do note he has responded to questions publically (to his own detriment) criticizing his dogs and a series of personal jibes and belittling comments which I do not think is fair. Any other breeder would have had this thread deleted. And to the breeders participating in this public flogging: you should know better. I dont care that Tralee is responding, you all know it is not a fair situation for him to be in wrt the group criticism and public scrutiny of his dogs. errhh! Thanks I think. Hell no, I'm not offended. Dialogue is not only necessary it is absolutely paramount. I am not afraid of being wrong, and people should not use that admission disproportionately because I also love being right. For crissakes I got a MA out of it so its served me well. But the jury is out, so call me a fence sitter if you want but I have not done anything other than defend a pup against culling. You would not get out of here alive if you had ever attempted to take Chalice from me and did not retreat, and I suspect the owners of Lumen feel very much the same. The two dogs, both from separate litters have not shown any health issues, to date. I homed both of them to homes that were above and beyond far superior to any other home my pigment dogs have gone to. So when I do something worth crucifying me for, then come and call. Oh wait, maybe I should have phrased that differently because you don't need to do something wrong to get yourself crucified. Tralee this is twice in this thread Ive tried to explain this - no one not one person that I know of and certainly not one thats been involved in this thread would expect you to kill a dog because its born with no pigment .I would absolutely think you an animal if you did and would never consider it myself. For you to keep on about it looks like you are dodging the issue.I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really have misunderstood so . Read my lips - When someone says cull it from a breeding program it means don't use it to breed with not don't let it live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 If you have 10 puppies and 2 have almond shaped eyes you wouldn't think twice about taking one of them over the others [ all else being equal] to keep for breeding.You wouldn't consider what other genes you may loose by selecting this shaped eye yet you say you wouldn't eliminate a dog without pigment because you may loose other genes that link with it. Now so far [ touch wood] I haven't had to consider this because in over 20 years I've never bred one with lighter pigment. I have never bred one or had one with thyroid problems,cancer , joint problems or itchies and Im up to over a couple of hundred. My biggest issues are head shape and eye shape in what I'm selecting for once Im sure of the working ability now Ive sorted out the coats. Ive mucked it up a bit along the way but Ive learned a bit too. Its simple - doesnt need to be complicated at all - light pigment is undesirable its a fault, just as a club foot would be a fault and no one would breed with it regardless of what other genes may tag along with it - unlikely - but I don't want light pigment showing up in my whelping box and if affected dogs are going to be bred rather than being overlooked for breeding as they have been until recently sooner or later its going to happen. Im about to buy myself a new boy and Im going to be ticked off if he throws pink noses more than I can say - a pedigree doesn't tell me where the pink noses were so Im flying blind and the more that are in the gene pool the greater the risk Im going to see it. I dont want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 and your point is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Horrible coats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 They look like they been scissored into poodle puppy clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) Showgrounds at Pisa. Edited June 14, 2013 by Tralee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Multi Champion Ramon 58kg Audio is in Italian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larrikin Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 They look like they been scissored into poodle puppy clips They look to have very open coats, which wouldn't be weather resistant. Not that I can talk my girl is butt naked at the moment :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Coats which need grooming which is a bit silly for dogs supposed to be working under all weather conditions. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 Coats which need grooming which is a bit silly for dogs supposed to be working under all weather conditions. Just saying. Or maybe, just maybe, the coats have been continuously groomed giving thema different appearance. I know my dogs looked markedly different after a bath and a brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Maybe but not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Interesting as in Europe ( including Italy) pyreneans are generally severely penalized for over groomed and washed coats. They are as a rule shown very naturally as it shows better working coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Oh Dog! I thought this thread had died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Rebanne . View it anyway? Nuh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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