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Jellyblush

Please Help Me Save My Dog

889 posts in this topic

She stretched the bars then reached her paw through and swatted at the catch until it opened!

SMART!

May I suggest a stronger crate ..one of the mesh ones or something? that way there is no way to put a foot thru and risk getting hurt ..or getting her lower jaw caught....

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Try not to stress too much Jelly just keep working on it, my girl has done terrible damage to her teeth over the years I will upload some pics, the crate training has really helped her and even though she did attack the crate badly once and did a lot of damage (to her and it!), luckily it's a really strong crate and survived the attack more or less. She has really settled a lot and is heaps better in the crate (and in general) these days. I've had her here full time for more than a year now, before that she was bounced around a bit which wouldn't have helped her anxiety.

Here's a couple of pics of her teeth, the little ones are pretty much down to nothing.

IMG_3779.jpg

IMG_3776.jpg

And of course a pic of the troublemaker herself :)

IMG_3794.jpg

ETA OMG I can't believe how huge those pics are clearly I should have scrubbed my fingernails after coming in from the horses before taking close up pics :laugh:

Edited by WoofnHoof

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Oh! she is beautiful! But her poor little teeth :( Do you think she has a happy life now?

I hope you are all right. Roo didn't seem in particular distress on the video. Just determined. Where would I get a stronger crate do you think ? I've only seen versions of that one I've got online and in pet shops. I will definitely be trying the leash hook and cable tie idea. I'll do a bit more practice tomorrow.

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Thanks Jelly she is a gorgeous girl :) I reckon 99% of the time she's happy or content these days, storms are her biggest issue by far and thankfully I've been home most of the time when we've had storms go through so I've been able to stop her getting over the top. I think a lot of the previous damage she's done was due to storm anxiety and being left outside without enough interaction.

I'm not sure where my crate came from I think mum picked it up from a garage sale so it's an older type with just the door at the front not the sides, it does have thicker bars than the ones that are in the shops these days she did bend the bars but not enough to get out luckily. It's quite a large one so maybe the larger crates have a thicker/stronger mesh? I had it for the husky but he doesn't really need it as much.

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tdierikx   

http://shop.vebopet.com.au/store/dogs/dog-cages-crates/

Scroll down towards the bottom for the cage crates - larger ones on page 2.

Vebo crates are very sturdy, and the best price by far, although shipping to Victoria may be a little pricey.

I also saw that Petbarn have now got in some sturdy looking cage crates, but Vebo ones are cheaper and well known for their quality.

T.

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JRG   

C Crates are good and strong.

I have a number of crates of different makes and the C crates are by far the strongest.

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Thanks guys, those vebopet ones look good and deliery to Vic isn't too bad; still only half of what I paid at Petstock for the Kramar one!

The c crates look good too JRG but have a wait on them, I think I need something stronger now.

This will be my third crate in 10 days....is that excessive?!

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Sheridan   

Thanks guys, those vebopet ones look good and deliery to Vic isn't too bad; still only half of what I paid at Petstock for the Kramar one!

The c crates look good too JRG but have a wait on them, I think I need something stronger now.

This will be my third crate in 10 days....is that excessive?!

Possibly excessive ...

The sturdiest crate I've had is the one I got for my first wheaten, which I got from Roll Over Rover in Grovedale (Geelong). Had it for years. It has a metal tray but even without that it it really heavy. I couldn't see a brand on it, though. :(

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pebbles   

Jelly, Before you get another crate sight unseen perhaps give the shop a ring, ask what strength the wire is, think it's called tensile? I'm sure someone else on here will know what you ask for then again check on here and ask if that's a good strong one. I'm sure someone or their OH will be able to help. I've got one big one which looks much the same as the one in the pic and it's not that strong but ok for what I use.

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Jelly, Before you get another crate sight unseen perhaps give the shop a ring, ask what strength the wire is, think it's called tensile? I'm sure someone else on here will know what you ask for then again check on here and ask if that's a good strong one. I'm sure someone or their OH will be able to help. I've got one big one which looks much the same as the one in the pic and it's not that strong but ok for what I use.

Have to second this. If Roo has destroyed 3 crates, before you get another you really need to know that it is the answer. I have a couple of crates from Vebopets and I'm not really sure they'd withstand a Roo assault.

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This isn't a good outcome. :(

I would have thought the object of the crate training was to reduce the anxiety and activity associated with your absence, not just to keep her in increasingly fortified boxes.

I will repeat the advice I gave at the start of the thread.

Whatever you decide to do, set a time limit now. This has gone on for years and is ruining your life.

If the problem has not been solved or considerably improved by the date you set, then it's kindest to say enough's enough. The problem has worsened over time, if you allow it to continue to deteriorate you risk her fatally injuring herself.

Nobody can promise you that this dog can be improved, but you do have the power to ensure she will never suffer again.

While it is good that you are willing to make the effort, without a time scale to gauge improvement, I'm not sure how you say whether the training has been successful or not.

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Sheridan   

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

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In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

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In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

I am not suggesting there be an instant result. I am suggesting that Jelly have a realistic and informed idea of how long this should take, and not let it drag out indeterminately because there will always be people with suggestions for improvement, that won't ever stop.

But in the mean time, the dog is still anxious when Jelly is not there and prone to getting in very dangerous situations. It is only Jelly that will suffer if the dog seriously harms itself.

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Sheridan   

In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

I am not suggesting there be an instant result. I am suggesting that Jelly have a realistic and informed idea of how long this should take, and not let it drag out indeterminately because there will always be people with suggestions for improvement, that won't ever stop.

But in the mean time, the dog is still anxious when Jelly is not there and prone to getting in very dangerous situations. It is only Jelly that will suffer if the dog seriously harms itself.

No, you're suggesting that Jelly put Roo to sleep. If it doesn't work by this date, put your dog to sleep.

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In response to Greytmate's non-too-subtle post and Jelly, who is the only important person in this thread, crate training can take a while. Some dogs are instant, 'Yay' a den!' and some dogs it takes a while. It's only been a short period of time since you started. You knew it would take some time and Roo has made great improvements in that short period but it will be up and down. Yes, there's been a setback, but don't let others get to you because it wasn't an instantaneous result.

I am not suggesting there be an instant result. I am suggesting that Jelly have a realistic and informed idea of how long this should take, and not let it drag out indeterminately because there will always be people with suggestions for improvement, that won't ever stop.

But in the mean time, the dog is still anxious when Jelly is not there and prone to getting in very dangerous situations. It is only Jelly that will suffer if the dog seriously harms itself.

No, you're suggesting that Jelly put Roo to sleep. If it doesn't work by this date, put your dog to sleep.

Yes I am.

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frufru   

I have been following this thread but have not posted previously - just a normal pet owner with crate trained dogs. As others have said - retraining behaviour takes time and you and Roo have seen significant improvement with Nek. Retraining takes time and there will be setbacks but overall you have seen a positive change. Will just add that if you had started with something sturdy like a C-crate Roo would not have been able to bend the bars and you would not have gone through 3 crates. Having to leave Roo in the crate for 8 hrs the other day so early in the retraining was asking a lot and she did it! Moving too quickly with the crate training perhaps - what did Nek say?

Best of luck

Edited by frufru

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Hey everyone, sorry if I've confused you - Roo has not gone through three crates. She has managed to get out of one not overly strong one.

The reference to three is the number I will have purchased for her IF I buy another stronger one.

Greymate, I do understand your point, and agree that improvements must be seen in a reasonable time period. I have a timeframe in mind which I have discussed with my vet behaviourist, and wish to discuss with Nekh when I see her on the weekend as well, remember Roo is also on a new medication which I do not expect is working at it's full capacity yet since she's only been on it 11 days.

When Roo's anxious moments are greater than her happy moments it will be time to pts. With my current arrangements for her care she is crated a total of under 20 hours per week. That leaves a lot of very happy time EVEN IF you assume she's anxious every second she's in the crate, which I don't.

One bust out of the crate in the first 10 days of crate training is not the end of the story for me and thanks very much to Sheridan for your comments :)

I think I may have gone too fast. I also crated her too soon after eating (i.e. she had energy). Remember also that I videoed her. She did not exhibit any particular signs of anxiety in the video aside from exiting the crate. The lip licking, quivering etc were not present. I am encouraged by this.

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Timeframes and goal setting can be really good to help ascertain at what point you should see improvement and how much, but I would also be hesitant to set a hard and fast deadline, d day etc because it can add stress and pressure which the dog will pick up on. Jelly started this thread because she doesn't want to PTS so it makes sense that people are going to suggest ways to improve the dog's behaviour so she doesn't have to.

The fact that she was able to leave her in the crate for 8 hours the other day without the dog going completely ape says to me that this might work, and it's very early days yet in terms of this particular training regime. She is a bit of an escape artist it seems so she does need to be thwarted in that respect no matter what size enclosure. My horse figured out how to open the gate between paddocks, I now have to tie the gate up with a special knot he can't undo, escape artists can be a PITA. :)

Anyway that's my 2c, I'd be speaking to Nek and getting a couple of strong clips :)

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