M United Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 He is appealing the decision but he will lose. There is no chance the council will allow him to continue as he pleases with his track record. By the way another strange point is the dog doesn't only try to attack other dogs, horses (police for example) cows, possums etc are all in the same boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 This owner and his dog are a menace to society. Training with a very experienced behaviourist could help keep the dog under control but from the sounds of things the owner is not responsible enough to really work with the dog and make sure this dog never ever escapes or has a change to kill again. If the dog ever gets loose it will kill again, be it somone else's pet or a kid on a skateboard. Lots of dogs will try to nip at a passing skateboard but not try to attack the kid on it. This is not a dog that will just give a nip or a bite but one that attacks to kill. Dogs with a temperament like that are born that way and the safest option for most of them is pts before they cause more tragedy. This one should have been pts for killing the Boxer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I didn't think it has nothing to do with the breed either but the people at the boot camp seemed to think he cant be fixed and said its his breed. They are obviously clueless. I am seeing it from the poor ladies view. I can't imaging taking your dog to a vet, having it get into a serious fight and dying. I would be devastated. Anyhow i got him the info through someone i know of the Australian version of the dog whisperer. He will need to save some money as he is a pensioner, i think he charges around $300 per 30 mins but gaurantes to fix your dog or you don't pay anything. But the handler will also need to be sorted out (training) as he doesn't always think like a normal logical person would. Don't get me wrong he is a nice guy and loves his dogs but how can you enjoy a dog which you can never let him off the leash anywhere even a park? It sounds like the dog is genetically predisposed to having a very high prey drive. That isn't 'breed' as such, as the dog is a random cross breed. But we can say that it is breeding that is likely to have created this dog. Being an angry or careless owner doesn't make your dog want to kill other dogs on sight. Prey drive does. The dog has been declared dangerous. GOOD. It must always wear a muzzle. Yes, there are all sorts of training people that offer money-back guarantee, but nobody with a brain will take your money and call this dog fixed. The type and amount of of training necessary to stop the behaviour is well beyond the capability of most people, and can be all undone in a single instant. It's great the owner loves the dog, but they just need to keep it muzzled in public, on lead, and well away from other dogs, for the rest of its life, and think much more carefully next time they go to buy a dog. That isn't too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Sounds like trouble. foolish owner in possession of an aggressive reactive dog. Sure to be more attacks unless he gets serious about taking responsibility for the dog. He reminds me of my brother. He used to have an aggressive dog that attacked a little girls small terrier. He said it wasn't his dogs fault because "the dog just jumped into his (the dogs) mouth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerB Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 What a joke. A dog with a track record of attacking, an owner who doesn't give a crap and yet together they're allowed to continue being a mennace to society. Can you please let me know what part of NSW this is in? As a parent with kids and an owner of a puppy, i want to make sure it's nowhere near me and to ensure i have nothing to worry about. People b!tch and moan about dangerous dog legislation and how unfair it can be, but if you ask me, based on cases like this, it goes nowhere near far enough to ensure the saftey of society in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 What a joke. A dog with a track record of attacking, an owner who doesn't give a crap and yet together they're allowed to continue being a mennace to society. Can you please let me know what part of NSW this is in? As a parent with kids and an owner of a puppy, i want to make sure it's nowhere near me and to ensure i have nothing to worry about. People b!tch and moan about dangerous dog legislation and how unfair it can be, but if you ask me, based on cases like this, it goes nowhere near far enough to ensure the saftey of society in general. The owner walks his dog onlead, takes it to the vet, spent $1500 on training, tried to stop the boxer from entering the vets etc - that doesn't sound like an owner that doesn't give a crap to me. If a kid on a skateboard rode right past my dogs on the path I would be telling them off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerB Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) The owner is wanting to fight the conditions being put on his dog that has a history of attacking other animals and people. To me that is not giving a crap. So hang on, do we need to ban kids on skateboards? As much as i hate the things (skateboards not kids :) ), as an owner of a dog it is my responsibility to ensure my dog can cope with a kid on a skateboard. Interested to know why would you tell the kids off when they are doing nothing wrong? This is current NSW law Foot scooters, skateboards and rollerblades may be ridden on footpaths unless there are signs that specifically prohibit them. However, riders must keep to the left and give way to other pedestrians http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/pedestrians/skateboardsfootscootersandrollerblades.html Also to add - my view is pretty simple on issues like this and it's basically if the majority of society need to change their behaviour so that a particular dog can function, then that dog doesn't really belong in society. I'd say the same of cats/birds/people whatever. Why should everyone in this dogs neighbourhood be petrified of walking the street because one owner and his dog can't function around other animals/kids on skateboards? Edited February 12, 2013 by BoxerB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M United Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) Just to clarify about the skateboards, there are many, many signs where he walks his dogs saying $500 fine for riding a skateboard. Yes it is illegal but its not his job to enforce the law. We all know most dogs do not like skateboards his though is in a different case as it will attack the human riding it. Im assuming once the human is down he will then take the skateboard not continue to attack the human but its not something anyone would want to happen to find out. Anyhow the majority of the people riding the skateboards are over 20 years old, there not kids. If you haven't figured it out already im talking about Sydney City, lots of business suits, teens and adults riding them. The people who ride these skateboards are careless and hoons and ride so fast they could seriously hurt someone. I think thats why he does not like skateboarders as they are also dangerous. He carries a muzzle on him its only a matter of time before he has to put it on him all times. He is on a lead the whole time he is with him so he wont be able to attack another animal unless it comes to him. TO be fair to him his first dog fight he was on a lead and the other dog was not on a lead and they both met at a corner so he could not have seen and the fight happened. The second fight was in a park he was off leash on a metal muzzle and boweled over 2 dogs (same owner had them both). He doesn't let him at all off leash after that. I would say he is not completely careless, he doesn't just let his dog do anything he always has him firm in his hands, but to him its been a couple of unfortunate situations. But it doesnt take away the fact that he doesnt control him properly. and if it was my dog i would not allow him to fight other dogs or go at skateboards. He does care about his dogs but to be honest his the type of person that cares to much in a way where he wont punish them for doing bad things. Edited February 12, 2013 by M United Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M United Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Both the dog and owner sound like a menace. As for finding a behaviourist, I would run a mile from anyone who guarantees they can "fix" any dog or they'll refund you. $300-$400 should also get you at least a 2 hour consultation, not 30 minutes (unless it's a top vet behaviourist which from what I've seen can be up to around $600 but includes a written assessment as well). This guy i have been told is the best in Austalia and he is actually working on his own tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuddleDuck Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 If he has been declared dangerous the owner carrying the muzzle won't help-he needs to put it on the dog for it to work!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 So he spent $1500 on a boot camp program to help his dog? I actually see that as a very positive sign, it shows he does indeed recognise there is a problem and is willing to expend resources to fix the problem. I wonder if you could refer him to a good behaviourist whether he would go. Forgot to see what state you're in. Maybe if you tell us location someone here would know a good behaviourist in that area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M United Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 He lives in Sydney City. He does care about his dog, he knows there is an issue as he attacks any animal after he was attacked when he was 1 year old. Just remember before he was attacked he was not a dangerous dog. Anyhow like i said half his problem is he doesn't discipline his dogs, and he doesn't do this on purpose he just doesn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 He lives in Sydney City. He does care about his dog, he knows there is an issue as he attacks any animal after he was attacked when he was 1 year old. Just remember before he was attacked he was not a dangerous dog. Anyhow like i said half his problem is he doesn't discipline his dogs, and he doesn't do this on purpose he just doesn't know. and a lot of dogs "attacked" don't become aggressive. Look at the age of the dog when the supposed attack happened. 12 months old, just becoming fully mature. what ever happened the dog is now dangerous and the owner needs to step up to the mark and muzzle the dog while out and about, just not carry the damn thing around. Too bad for the other dog/skateboard rider if they meet coming around a blind corner. It's way too late to discipline the dog, which most likley wouldn't have worked anyway. It's a dangerous dog and he needs to abide by the dangerous dog laws and that's what you should be telling the owner. And if he won't comply then you need to alert the council to that fact or you are going to have death and injuries to dogs and people on your conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M United Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 His already been charged as a dangerous dog, he will appeal and obviously lose. It's up to the council then to enforce the law and make sure he is complying which im sure they will as it is a very serious case. Im actually glad this has happened (and i knew it will) because even though i like his dogs, i dont like dogs that fight to hurt/kill animal or human etc and that needs to be sorted. Most dog lover would agree with that. He hasn't put on the muzzle on im assuming he has a certain time to comply or he just doesn't want to put it on, either way the council will sort it out. Ive told him if the council tells you to put the muzzle on all times make sure its on all times you wont get away with not having it on. Up to him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disintegratus Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 how can you enjoy a dog which you can never let him off the leash anywhere even a park? I have a dog I can't let offlead anywhere, and I still enjoy him immensely aside from his fear aggression issues, he's one of the best behaved dogs I know, and I honestly could never ask for a dog more devoted to me :) I imagine (pure speculation here) that most of the reason he would be fighting the conditions would be because he doesn't want his dog to have to sleep in a cage outside. I don't blame him, I'd do the same thing. I would have no issues with any of the other conditions, but to me, a dog with that history should not necessarily be forced to live in a cage. The dog has not gone out actively seeking things to attack, nor has it been wandering at large when it has attacked. I agree that's it's bloody stupid for the vet to have taken the dog off lead to weigh him, I can't fathom a reason he would need to do this. Even when I've taken cats or ferrets to the vet, I take the animal out of the carrier, keep it contained, weigh the carrier, then weigh the animal in the carrier. Tada! No need to have an unrestrained animal AT ALL. unless he's using heavy gauge chain, I can't see lead/collar weight adding anything significant to the total weight anyway. I think the owner does need some attitude adjustment in terms of not disciplining his dog, but I think a session with a good behaviourist should see to that :) As for the OP's original questions, I think any dog can be a good dog, breed has very little to do with it. I think THAT DOG can't be trusted ever, just as due to his history, I will never trust my boy off lead in a public place; but I think to say that a particular breed can't be trusted is a broad and damaging generalisation, and a very upsetting attitude coming from a dog lover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Don't get me wrong he is a nice guy and loves his dogs but how can you enjoy a dog which you can never let him off the leash anywhere even a park? Very easily. My dog isn't good with other dogs. She is 9 soon and we have never had an issue with her because I make sure she and other dogs are safe. I have no problems with dog aggressive dogs. I have problems with idiot owners who ignore the problem and do nothing to keep others safe. The issue here is the owner and if he can't step up then this dog should be taken off him. My niece got bitten on Sunday, nasty wound to the hand that's put her out of action for a while. The dog was destroyed We found out that she was the fourth or fifth child this dog had attacked. The owner knew it wasn't good with kids but instead of locking it up when she had visitors she let it run around. The Owner was very lucky the attack wasn't worse and that it was my niece and not one of the other kids (niece is very tough and a huge dog lover) These type of dogs should never get a second chance. Thing is I feel sorry for the dog. It's not their fault they have idiot owners but it is them that pay the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 He lives in Sydney City. He does care about his dog, he knows there is an issue as he attacks any animal after he was attacked when he was 1 year old. Just remember before he was attacked he was not a dangerous dog. Anyhow like i said half his problem is he doesn't discipline his dogs, and he doesn't do this on purpose he just doesn't know. Tell him to contact k9Pro! Seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 His already been charged as a dangerous dog, he will appeal and obviously lose. It's up to the council then to enforce the law and make sure he is complying which im sure they will as it is a very serious case. Im actually glad this has happened (and i knew it will) because even though i like his dogs, i dont like dogs that fight to hurt/kill animal or human etc and that needs to be sorted. Most dog lover would agree with that. He hasn't put on the muzzle on im assuming he has a certain time to comply or he just doesn't want to put it on, either way the council will sort it out. Ive told him if the council tells you to put the muzzle on all times make sure its on all times you wont get away with not having it on. Up to him now. The only grounds for appeal are that the proper procedure wasn't followed by council. Which means he will very likely lose, as the procedure is very simple and was probably followed. I would report him for not having the dog muzzled in the mean time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Don't get me wrong he is a nice guy and loves his dogs but how can you enjoy a dog which you can never let him off the leash anywhere even a park? Lots of dogs can't be offlead. There is a saying in my breed that an offlead Pyr is a disapyr :laugh: . Many dogs spend their lives being always onlead in public areas. And no, they are not in any way 'missing out' and they definitely have plenty of fun! And it can be a case (as it seems to be in this one) that the more you think the dog should have 'freedom' the more you are responsible for the dog having that taken away from it - to a greater extent than if some reasonable controls were applied in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Don't get me wrong he is a nice guy and loves his dogs but how can you enjoy a dog which you can never let him off the leash anywhere even a park? Lots of dogs can't be offlead. There is a saying in my breed that an offlead Pyr is a disapyr :laugh: . Many dogs spend their lives being always onlead in public areas. And no, they are not in any way 'missing out' and they definitely have plenty of fun! And it can be a case (as it seems to be in this one) that the more you think the dog should have 'freedom' the more you are responsible for the dog having that taken away from it - to a greater extent than if some reasonable controls were applied in the first place. :laugh: :laugh: Love it! Have to agree though, my Anatolian x cannot be let offlead. He just bolts. Recall is not in his vocabulary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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