A Raw / Vets All Natural Diet

[persephone]

Amino cal plus do a google search, can be used just to make sure your puppy is getting everything

the diet stated gives plenty of calcium, it doesn't need a supplement.

I agree :)

add good treats , and some large recreational bones, the odd slipper and toy .... :p

[DeltaCharlie]

The other thing you need to remember with Vets is that the commercial food industry sponsors their university degrees and provide the nutrition information that they study. There is an awful lot of bias in the whole thing.

So, it isn't necessarily the vets fault entirely. They have been taught throughout their degree that the best diet is a commercial one and that raw is bad (commercial companies aren't exactly going to promote raw are they?)

[ellz]

The other thing you need to remember with Vets is that the commercial food industry sponsors their university degrees and provide the nutrition information that they study. There is an awful lot of bias in the whole thing.

So, it isn't necessarily the vets fault entirely. They have been taught throughout their degree that the best diet is a commercial one and that raw is bad (commercial companies aren't exactly going to promote raw are they?)

It's like the hairdressing industry. Different salons are sponsored by different product brands. They don't recommend any others and none of them are very kind about "supermarket" brands of product either.

[zoeinthecity]

The other thing you need to remember with Vets is that the commercial food industry sponsors their university degrees and provide the nutrition information that they study. There is an awful lot of bias in the whole thing.

So, it isn't necessarily the vets fault entirely. They have been taught throughout their degree that the best diet is a commercial one and that raw is bad (commercial companies aren't exactly going to promote raw are they?)

It just amazes me that they have completed university degree(s), one would think they have a modicum of critical thinking skills.

[ellz]

The other thing you need to remember with Vets is that the commercial food industry sponsors their university degrees and provide the nutrition information that they study. There is an awful lot of bias in the whole thing.

So, it isn't necessarily the vets fault entirely. They have been taught throughout their degree that the best diet is a commercial one and that raw is bad (commercial companies aren't exactly going to promote raw are they?)

It just amazes me that they have completed university degree(s), one would think they have a modicum of critical thinking skills.

I'm sure they do have these, but are smart enough to abide by the old adage "you don't bite the hand that feeds you"....

:laugh:

[noisymina]

My vet now stocks raw. She has installed a brand new freezer after the old one carked it during the floods/power outages.

When I first went there, she was pretty non-committal when I mention I fed raw. . Not any more. She saw my old dog pass on with a complete set of perfect teeth. :D

Edited March 27, 2013 by noisymina

[Jess the Lab]

ZoeInTheCity,

I've never fed raw nor use Vets all natural so I don't have an opinion there, but for your vet to say no to raw usually means they want you to go down the path of buying their supposedly A-grade Science Diet/Eukanabe dog food. Yes, they are economically stacked in the clinic as opposed to having extra overhead to have a running fridge to keep raw food. And most of all, the vets are 'sold' to the commercial arrangement with Science Diet.

Test the water by asking, "so if I don't feed raw, what is the best dog food for my dogs?" If he/she said either Science Diet & Eukanabe, then run and never look back!!!

The vet industry here is rigged. It's similar to the GP/doctor (for humans) in developing countries. The very same GP would recommend the anti-biotics that he/she sells (There's no such thing as pharmacists in developing countries). The doctor is the sales man for the medicines! Sounds like our vets in Australia?!? Yah, why not convince my customer to buy the supposedly clinically proven dog food that I coveniently sell!

Edited March 27, 2013 by Jess 123

[shirra]

Are there any dangers feeding too much calcium to a dog who has completed growing?

[minimax]

Are there any dangers feeding too much calcium to a dog who has completed growing?

It can still cause bone abnormalities in full grown dogs

[megan_]

Are there any dangers feeding too much calcium to a dog who has completed growing?

I believe so

[kazbar81]

I agree I would find another vet. I find that Vets who disregard things that they dont know about are not the best

[alpha bet]

Vets All Natural has been around a long time - this was designed by Bruce Symes, a vet. In America Wendy Volhard has a diet which appears to be of a very similar nature. Both of these guys have been researching continually and perhaps could easily be seen as the experienced specialist in this field - these were in the days many years before Eukanuba or Science Diet was every on the shelves of the Vet Stores. In the early days these 'specialist' have both spent many years never making any money on the feed but working to improve their knowledge and to pass this on. Perhaps now they will start to receive some rewards financially as well.

So who do we believe, these guys,who have dedicated themselves for many years or your local vet who might be well meaning but is really more like a GP..... or the pet food manufacturer ?

Many Vet's can't even keep up to date on what is the correct vaccination even tho the AVA has advised.

Personally happy to accept that VAN and Volhard have given me ample information to trust their judgement and I also feel confident they will continue to provide information for the future - surely I can also trust they have added the right balance of minerals etc so there is no need for me to spend further money on the latest trent.

[Nekhbet]

It just amazes me that they have completed university degree(s), one would think they have a modicum of critical thinking skills.

I started the vet science course - finances prevented me finishing. I went to uni with people who had NEVER OWNED A PET. They were frightened, turned off and even rejected some species entirely. So, what do you expect those people to believe? Whatever they're told because their interest is not always lying on the straight and narrow.

VAN is a complete food, it was made so people did not have to worry about adding this and that. Dog food is not the massive mystery some people make it out to be, dogs have done very well over thousands of years without dry kibble and cans.

Over calcium can cause heart problems, muscular problems, kidney stones, GI problems, nutritional absorption problems, joint pain and bone problems.

Everything has it's limit to when it can hurt you.

[Rosetta]

The other thing you need to remember with Vets is that the commercial food industry sponsors their university degrees and provide the nutrition information that they study. There is an awful lot of bias in the whole thing.

So, it isn't necessarily the vets fault entirely. They have been taught throughout their degree that the best diet is a commercial one and that raw is bad (commercial companies aren't exactly going to promote raw are they?)

It just amazes me that they have completed university degree(s), one would think they have a modicum of critical thinking skills.

The vet's degree would appear to be minimal in the areas of nutrition and behaviour issues. I was surprised at my vet's attitude when consulted about a behavioural issue - it was a "specialist" area and I needed to consult with a veterinary behaviourist. They can be very expensive for the average pet owner unfortunately and many people cannot afford it. Even some basic advice - found easily on the internet - would be helpful to people who don't have the resources to research for themselves but nothing at all was offered. I don't even ask for advice on feeding after seeing all the Hills products in the waiting room :)

[persephone]

I was surprised at my vet's attitude when consulted about a behavioural issue - it was a "specialist" area and I needed to consult with a veterinary behaviourist.

Were you surprised they recommended a behaviourist?

Behaviour IS a specialised area .

vets with normal training ,cannot , IMO, be expected to understand and be able to work with anatomy/physiology of multiple species/breeds ..... AND be comfortable in assessing and helping with behavioural issues .

Its like human GPs - they have enough trouble working with physicalities - most are just not equipped to deal with the psycholgical ..or other specialised areas ...and they only have ONE species with which to deal! ;)

[minimax]

I was surprised at my vet's attitude when consulted about a behavioural issue - it was a "specialist" area and I needed to consult with a veterinary behaviourist.

Were you surprised they recommended a behaviourist?

Behaviour IS a specialised area .

vets with normal training ,cannot , IMO, be expected to understand and be able to work with anatomy/physiology of multiple species/breeds ..... AND be comfortable in assessing and helping with behavioural issues .

Its like human GPs - they have enough trouble working with physicalities - most are just not equipped to deal with the psycholgical ..or other specialised areas ...and they only have ONE species with which to deal! ;)

Exactly, I'd be more concerned about a vet that WAS offering specialised diet or behavioural advice!

[Rosetta]

I was surprised at my vet's attitude when consulted about a behavioural issue - it was a "specialist" area and I needed to consult with a veterinary behaviourist.

Were you surprised they recommended a behaviourist?

Behaviour IS a specialised area .

vets with normal training ,cannot , IMO, be expected to understand and be able to work with anatomy/physiology of multiple species/breeds ..... AND be comfortable in assessing and helping with behavioural issues .

Its like human GPs - they have enough trouble working with physicalities - most are just not equipped to deal with the psycholgical ..or other specialised areas ...and they only have ONE species with which to deal! ;)

Yes but GPs do treat mental health issues at a basic level before referring to specialists. All I am saying is that they could offer some basic training in the degree. Or vets with inner city practices who see mostly dogs and cats could at least be able to say look here are some websites you could look at for those that are unable to afford or unwilling to see specialised behaviourial practitioners. To be realistic most people out there would not take it further than the vet.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Rosetta

[persephone]

Yes but GPs do treat mental health issues at a basic level

:) and it is a bit easier for them, again ,as we are the same species, and can communicate ....

[Crisovar]

I was surprised at my vet's attitude when consulted about a behavioural issue - it was a "specialist" area and I needed to consult with a veterinary behaviourist.

Were you surprised they recommended a behaviourist?

Behaviour IS a specialised area .

vets with normal training ,cannot , IMO, be expected to understand and be able to work with anatomy/physiology of multiple species/breeds ..... AND be comfortable in assessing and helping with behavioural issues .

Its like human GPs - they have enough trouble working with physicalities - most are just not equipped to deal with the psycholgical ..or other specialised areas ...and they only have ONE species with which to deal! ;)

Yes but GPs do treat mental health issues at a basic level before referring to specialists. All I am saying is that they could offer some basic training in the degree. Or vets with inner city practices who see mostly dogs and cats could at least be able to say look here are some websites you could look at for those that are unable to afford or unwilling to see specialised behaviourial practitioners. To be realistic most people out there would not take it further than the vet.

GPs prescribe meds..in fact they over prescribe them. Specialists are just that and I expect my health care providers and those of my pets to refer to those when that is what is needed. IMO there are far too many specialist area in Vet Science for them to cover them to any advantage. Too many species and far too many breeds in those. Human medicine is so much easier.

[SeeGee]

VAN is awesome, was reccommend to us via our behaviorist.

Old vet was pleased with our beagles conditions and was open to VAN and raw feeding.

New vet (we moved) ridiculed us and advised us to contact our behaviorist for medical treatment!!!!!

We now drive the 45 mins back to our old vet. Terrifying that "medical professionals" can be so narrow minded - and rude!