Steve Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 THe ANKC has age limits for bitches, and if the bitch is older, she has to have a current health certificate from the vet and the breeder has to get permission from the relevant state body before the mating - I think that is a good compromise. What is it we are compromising on though? If you are a a breeder and you determine your bitch is in good health why do we need to have to jump through hoops to get approval to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temperamentfirst Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 THe ANKC has age limits for bitches, and if the bitch is older, she has to have a current health certificate from the vet and the breeder has to get permission from the relevant state body before the mating - I think that is a good compromise. What is it we are compromising on though? If you are a a breeder and you determine your bitch is in good health why do we need to have to jump through hoops to get approval to do so? I think that it is, per normal, a case of the rotten apples spoiling it for everyone - the sorts of breeders who are so keen for another litter that they do not take account of the bitch's health. A vet certificate of health means a professional disinterested person makes the call. I don't think it is a big deal to get a certificate, not when you see bitches who have had a litter (average number 10 pups) every year since they were 2, bred yet again at age 9. That sort of thing is one of the reasons we are facing draconian regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 THe ANKC has age limits for bitches, and if the bitch is older, she has to have a current health certificate from the vet and the breeder has to get permission from the relevant state body before the mating - I think that is a good compromise. What is it we are compromising on though? If you are a a breeder and you determine your bitch is in good health why do we need to have to jump through hoops to get approval to do so? I think that it is, per normal, a case of the rotten apples spoiling it for everyone - the sorts of breeders who are so keen for another litter that they do not take account of the bitch's health. A vet certificate of health means a professional disinterested person makes the call. I don't think it is a big deal to get a certificate, not when you see bitches who have had a litter (average number 10 pups) every year since they were 2, bred yet again at age 9. That sort of thing is one of the reasons we are facing draconian regulations. O.K I hear you except why is it bad for a bitch to be bred every year since they are two until they are 9 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temperamentfirst Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 It's a rotten life, exhausted by huge litters, only just recovered from carrying and rearing then bred again. Big litters take a lot out of a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Back in the dark ages where no one was telling us how old a bitch should be before she shouldn't have a litter it was nothing for bitches to be mated and have wonderful healthy lives and superb litters well into their teens and every sign showed they thrived on it. There isnt any science to say they should stop at any given age or time in their lives and in all honesty unless you have actually had a bitch that whelped in her teens how can you assume its too hard on them? So much is dependent on breed and its about her health not her age. you'd be crucified for doing it now, regardless of the bitch being up to it or not. Of course there's no science, it's pen pushers and animal lib drawing the lines in the sand these days, regardless of them being wrong. But hey, they have to protect the dogs from the puppy farmers some how Meanwhile, thanks to 'improved' and often very costly fertility therapies, women are having babies into their 40s and 50s. Go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 It's a rotten life, exhausted by huge litters, only just recovered from carrying and rearing then bred again. Big litters take a lot out of a bitch. Well that's not my experience prior to all of these beliefs when breeders did mate their bitches every season the bitches were healthier and lived longer. Sad really that breeders who have come in over the last 15 or 20 years will never get to know the difference but when we were able to do it the bitches thrived and made beautiful babies. I believe due to what Ive seen pre breeding mythology that bitches take a break themselves if they are not ready to go again - they have a delayed heat, or don't mate or don't get pregnant for a season or two and then go again. Im more than happy to be shown evidence that its better for bitches to be held off and rested which isnt based on assumption rather than experience or studies but in my opinion based on what I have seen and experienced bitches in good health are most times ready to go again next season and if they arent then the breeder should be the one determining this . Here's my three big beefs 1 even if I take my bitch to a vet and he determines she has bounced back and is healthy and more than able to have another litter that is taken out of my hands due to laws and codes. 2. Even though the bitch's reproductive system is unique to only this species it is manipulated by what has become the norm pushed by those who never bred dogs and the basic science of canine reproduction is completely thrown in the bin 3. That modern breeders are educated by animal rights propaganda and real research and experience and science is no longer needed because its taken out of a breeders control.Most of us believe it because we couldn't challenge it even if we wanted to. All in case some puppy farmer does mate dogs in poor condition though in my opinion if a bitch really is in poor condition she wont get pregnant any way. She will go down hill during a pregnancy and feeding and raring if she isn't fed adequate diet and treated appropriately but that's not the same as whether she will be fit to be mated again next season. We should have the right to test it and do what suits our girls and our breed and what is best for the species - but those days are gone and based on whats on the table in 5 years time new breeders will be telling us that we shouldnt mate a stud dog after 6 because its hard on them and having too much sex is a terrible life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Back in the dark ages where no one was telling us how old a bitch should be before she shouldn't have a litter it was nothing for bitches to be mated and have wonderful healthy lives and superb litters well into their teens and every sign showed they thrived on it. There isnt any science to say they should stop at any given age or time in their lives and in all honesty unless you have actually had a bitch that whelped in her teens how can you assume its too hard on them? So much is dependent on breed and its about her health not her age. you'd be crucified for doing it now, regardless of the bitch being up to it or not. Of course there's no science, it's pen pushers and animal lib drawing the lines in the sand these days, regardless of them being wrong. But hey, they have to protect the dogs from the puppy farmers some how Meanwhile, thanks to 'improved' and often very costly fertility therapies, women are having babies into their 40s and 50s. Go figure! Yeah I had last baby at 45 and it was good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 THe ANKC has age limits for bitches, and if the bitch is older, she has to have a current health certificate from the vet and the breeder has to get permission from the relevant state body before the mating - I think that is a good compromise. Its not the ANKC which has limits on maximum ages for bitches - some states do but not the ANKC . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHaze Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I just checked out the codes of practice for the VCA/DogsVic (Part 20.1) - they list minimum breeding ages, no more than 2 litters in 18 months, no more than 6 times in life without vet cert & permission from vca. But no where there does it list a maximum breeding age. Am i correct i thinking that if its not listed there then they dont have any enforceable rules for maximum ages in victoria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I just checked out the codes of practice for the VCA/DogsVic (Part 20.1) - they list minimum breeding ages, no more than 2 litters in 18 months, no more than 6 times in life without vet cert & permission from vca. But no where there does it list a maximum breeding age. Am i correct i thinking that if its not listed there then they dont have any enforceable rules for maximum ages in victoria? yep I rang Dogs NSW they tell me no max age except I cant mate a bitch over 8 without a vet certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Reproductive success in female wolves has been studied. Seems to show that reproductive success declines slowly from an early peak (~3 yrs), but is heavily influenced by nutrition and support from pack. I'd read that to say that mating after six years is fine, given good nutrition and adequate care. see http://www.youtube.c...d&v=B95eb-M4XPI Edited July 1, 2013 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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