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Inexcusable Negligence


Xyz
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Why do we always have to blame someone? Why not just accept that people, and that includes all of us, make mistakes?

Methinks that people that make mistakes are most likely to blame somebody else. :(

And there's a difference between 'cause' and 'blame'. To improve outcomes in the future.... in respect to potentially preventable things going wrong... it's necessary to tease out what events/decisions caused the problem.

Seeking 'causation' has become the correct catch-cry around mistakes/errors in hospitals...so that there's openness in examining factor/factors which led to something going wrong.

'Blame', which is full of emotional overtones of witch-hunts, only leads to temptations to cover things up or total emphasis on punishing someone. Meanwhile the opportunity to learn for the future gets lost.

As it's in danger of being lost in this thread. The immediate cause is as T just said... an owner acting, after a phone call with a vet, to give a cat 4 times the dose of a medication recommended.

And the causes of something like that happening need to be further teased out. Like, need for highly specific instructions, including warnings about dangers.... from vet to owner.

Teasing back further.... the need for debate about the nature of that medication being given to animals.

And further back ... the opportunities for emergency vet treatment.... with cost concerns.... in that area.

Far more potential for illuminating veterinary emergency treatment .... than running with the notion of 'blame'.

Incidentally, the very subject heading for this thread.... is one of 'blame'. A 'cause' heading would say something like.... 'Medication use/dosage linked to cat's death.'

Edited by mita
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Why do we always have to blame someone? Why not just accept that people, and that includes all of us, make mistakes?

Methinks that people that make mistakes are most likely to blame somebody else. :(

And there's a difference between 'cause' and 'blame'. To improve outcomes in the future.... in respect to potentially preventable things going wrong... it's necessary to tease out what events/decisions caused the problem.

Seeking 'causation' has become the correct catch-cry around mistakes/errors in hospitals...so that there's openness in examining factor/factors which led to something going wrong.

'Blame', which is full of emotional overtones of witch-hunts, only leads to temptations to cover things up or total emphasis on punishing someone. Meanwhile the opportunity to learn for the future gets lost.

As it's in danger of being lost in this thread. The immediate cause is as T just said... an owner acting, after a phone call with a vet, to give a cat 4 times the dose of a medication recommended.

And the causes of something like that happening need to be further teased out. Like, need for highly specific instructions, including warnings about dangers.... from vet to owner.

Teasing back further.... the need for debate about the nature of that medication being given to animals.

And further back ... the opportunities for emergency vet treatment.... with cost concerns.... in that area.

Far more potential for illuminating veterinary emergency treatment .... than running with the notion of 'blame'.

Incidentally, the very subject heading for this thread.... is one of 'blame'. A 'cause' heading would say something like.... 'Medication use/dosage linked to cat's death.'

Very well said, thank you.

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Why do we always have to blame someone? Why not just accept that people, and that includes all of us, make mistakes?

Methinks that people that make mistakes are most likely to blame somebody else. :(

And there's a difference between 'cause' and 'blame'. To improve outcomes in the future.... in respect to potentially preventable things going wrong... it's necessary to tease out what events/decisions caused the problem.

Seeking 'causation' has become the correct catch-cry around mistakes/errors in hospitals...so that there's openness in examining factor/factors which led to something going wrong.

'Blame', which is full of emotional overtones of witch-hunts, only leads to temptations to cover things up or total emphasis on punishing someone. Meanwhile the opportunity to learn for the future gets lost.

As it's in danger of being lost in this thread. The immediate cause is as T just said... an owner acting, after a phone call with a vet, to give a cat 4 times the dose of a medication recommended.

And the causes of something like that happening need to be further teased out. Like, need for highly specific instructions, including warnings about dangers.... from vet to owner.

Teasing back further.... the need for debate about the nature of that medication being given to animals.

And further back ... the opportunities for emergency vet treatment.... with cost concerns.... in that area.

Far more potential for illuminating veterinary emergency treatment .... than running with the notion of 'blame'.

Incidentally, the very subject heading for this thread.... is one of 'blame'. A 'cause' heading would say something like.... 'Medication use/dosage linked to cat's death.'

Well said Mita. My post was aimed at other threads on this forum as well as this one and its title, but I do agree with your clarification and refinement of some of the issues in this thread.

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I'd love to know who went to the media with the story... and what they intended the story to portray... because as written it really looks like the "blame" is being squarely rested at the feet of the vet in question, rather than sharing it with the owner - who was the one to actually overdose and kill his beloved pet.

Does anyone think that the vet wouldn't have given the usual cautions about dosage of human medications when used with animals? Does anyone think that the vet wouldn't have advised the owner to take the cat in to a clinic at the time if he could? I'm tipping she didn't just give her medication/dosage advice, then hang up...

The story as written certainly looks like an allocation of blame on the vet alone... which really isn't right.

T.

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The story as written certainly looks like an allocation of blame on the vet alone... which really isn't right.

T.

lots of other vets in Canberra who would be happy to see her stop practising, that is where my money would be for the 'tip'.

Edited by Diva
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I'd love to know who went to the media with the story... and what they intended the story to portray... because as written it really looks like the "blame" is being squarely rested at the feet of the vet in question, rather than sharing it with the owner - who was the one to actually overdose and kill his beloved pet.

T.

thing with this is, no one but the owner and the vet know exactly what dose was said over the phone, what warnings were given, how clear were the instructions etc. Vet says they said this, owner says they did that, stories don't match, but kitty is dead nevertheless.

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The vet advised the owner to come in with the cat and he declined :mad

Maree

CPR

and you know this how?

Via my carer who is a close friend of Jan's and takes her dogs and my foster dogs to her when needed, I think that is pretty much from the "horse's mouth"

Maree

CPR

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i would also like to way in on this it was only brought to my attention this article a couple of days ago. I use Jan for my own dogs and all my fosters dogs where i can. I have known Jan for years she treated my horses for me when i had them and helped me out with my older dog before i went into rescue. She is a one of a kind vet that was there for my dog when not many others vet would have been, it was xmas eve, to help her out and then put her to sleep when she was passed the point of being helped. I have never seen any other vet whilst putting an animal to sleep with the care that she does she always talks to them softly and is a remarkable vet. She has helped with many of my foster dogs who have come from the pounds very sick and has brought them through some pretty hairy stuff. She has my full support she is one of the few vets around that i think other vets can learn something from and that is affordable vet treatments to those who cannot pay the amazingly high prices that are charged else where. I like the fact that they bring up with ppl that bring their dogs in for treatment that if they are entire they tell them the facts about keeping an entire dog and what this does to their health etc. You tell me another vet that does this, i would love to know. We all know in rescue the importance of desexing animals for numerous reasons but the number of times that average joe public has said that they had no idea of the implications of keeping an entire dog and have said to me if i had of known i would have done things differently. I do use other vets when necessary and without naming names have been told by a vet that vets are being told in veterinary conferences not to deal with rescue or breeders as there is no money in this. I feel this is disgusting and i must admit ringing around recently to see if i can find more vets to come on board has shown that they are putting this into practice. I understand that she is not everyones ideal vet but like all the others she deserves to be able to carry on her work, she tries hard to do what is right by the animals.

It is not always you get what you pay for and i have spent a lot of money at i wont mention the vet on here but diagnosis for my horse i was told he had cancer in his eye and that it would need treatment of cryosurgery to help cure it well long story short i got a second opinion and am glad i did as this was not the issue and a bit of eye cream treatment helped cure this and it went away! I am saying that there is some vets out there that have not got the animals best interest at heart and i hear so many times of over diagnosis and misdiagnosis of animals.

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Hall vet does. Infact I had a bit of a tiff with one over enthusiastic vet nurse there because I would not desex one of my pups. I was showing at the time and waiting to see how the pup would turn out.

Lots of vets push the desexing thing. Obviously they see all the bad that happens. Increase risk of cancer, bad pregnancies etc.

You know what makes a good vet to me. Heart and knowledge. The vet I use gave us his personal number when one of my dogs was nearing the end. He let my mum pay what she could. He knew us and has always sent a card and remembers each aninal even after they are gone. He doesnt bullsh!t us and tells the truth. However he is very good at what he does AND one of few vets that doesnt diagnose by glancing at a pet.

Id rather someone who would take the best care of my pet. The idea that there is no other choice and all canberra vets over charge is silly.

If people are comfortable to use Jan more power to them. In this case the owner is obviously the one who made a mistake.

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Hall vet does. Infact I had a bit of a tiff with one over enthusiastic vet nurse there because I would not desex one of my pups. I was showing at the time and waiting to see how the pup would turn out.

Lots of vets push the desexing thing. Obviously they see all the bad that happens. Increase risk of cancer, bad pregnancies etc.

You know what makes a good vet to me. Heart and knowledge. The vet I use gave us his personal number when one of my dogs was nearing the end. He let my mum pay what she could. He knew us and has always sent a card and remembers each aninal even after they are gone. He doesnt bullsh!t us and tells the truth. However he is very good at what he does AND one of few vets that doesnt diagnose by glancing at a pet.

Id rather someone who would take the best care of my pet. The idea that there is no other choice and all canberra vets over charge is silly.

If people are comfortable to use Jan more power to them. In this case the owner is obviously the one who made a mistake.

would you mind shooting me a pm with the name and surgery of your vet? I have been in Canberra for a few years now but am still interested to try out vets that others recommend. (BTW - I think I met you not long after I moved to the ACT, when you had rats and a rescue litter?)

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It appears the posts in the negative are mostly interstaters, the ones in the area are going on what they have "heard" around town, the ones in the positive for Jan have and will continue to use her for the obvious reasons and when I am on that side of town, that is enough for me. :)

Maree

CPR

Edited by keetamouse
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Hall vet does.

Not sure what Hall Vet does in this context but I've always found them to be excellent and we've had some difficult stuff. There are three Canberra Vets I recommend to people:

Helen Purdham at Hall Vet

Ivan Gavazov at Weston Woden Animal Hospital (particularly for Sighthounds)

Sandra Hassett at the Animal Medical Centre in Philip (particularly for performance dogs/structural problems)

I also hear good things about Hamish at Queanbeyan but I've never been there.

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Hall vet does.

Not sure what Hall Vet does in this context but I've always found them to be excellent and we've had some difficult stuff. There are three Canberra Vets I recommend to people:

Helen Purdham at Hall Vet

Ivan Gavazov at Weston Woden Animal Hospital (particularly for Sighthounds)

Sandra Hassett at the Animal Medical Centre in Philip (particularly for performance dogs/structural problems)

I also hear good things about Hamish at Queanbeyan but I've never been there.

Same choices here. I use 2 of those, and have heard good things about the other two.

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Me three!

I've used Ivan ever since I got my first dog. He is now doing rescue work for us as well :D

Have used Sandra as well for a dog that was potentially being adopted to interstate flyballers so they wanted her checked by Sandra first.

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Pretty terrible journalism. If you give any living creature 4 times the recommended dose of any medication there are likely to be fatalities. I feel sorry for the vet who tried to help him, and the poor cat who died as a result of his carelessness.

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