suziwong66 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Wilbur appears to like my company best; he won't let me have a shower or go to the loo without him - heaven help me if i try to close the loo door! If he sees me trying to close the loo door he will literally run to try and stop me He doesn't do that with anyone else in the house. If i manage to get the door closed, he will bang it with his nose insistently until i come out or let him in. I'm always the last to go to bed and he will nearly always stay up in the sitting room with me until i go to bed too. He sleeps on OH's side of the bed - that's only because OH gets up first in the morning and gives Wilbur his breakfast bone; his allegiance is to the food more than it is to OH. As much as i suspect i'm his heart person i'm not stupid enough to ignore the reality that food is his first and best friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'd like to think that Monte thought I was his heart human. But he was a dog. A dog I loved very much and one who relied on me to keep him going but he didn't choose me or think of me as his 'heart' human because he didn't have that ability. Sure, he gravitated to me but that was instinct because he knew I was his carer and he would get food, warmth and security. So you don't believe dogs have an ability to love their people? They are just being pragmatic and self serving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Within 24 hours of picking up Lewis he was mine. He likes people and he will snuggle with other people but I am the one human he will do anything to get to. We are on a farm and if I leave him at the house for example, if someone opens the door and he gets outside he will run to the kennels. If I am not at the kennels he will run to my inlaws and back until he finds me or convinces himself I am not there. For that reason if I am not here he is in his dog yard where he cannot get out or let out accidentally. My HUsband took him for a drive around the sheep, I was at the house, he stopped at the shed to get something, Lewis got out fo the car and was running home not listening to the calls to come back. I call him once he spins on a dime. My husbands now deceased Stafford got fed by me, I did all of his daily care etc. I was okay, my husband said lets go, I was left in his dust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) I'd like to think that Monte thought I was his heart human. But he was a dog. A dog I loved very much and one who relied on me to keep him going but he didn't choose me or think of me as his 'heart' human because he didn't have that ability. Sure, he gravitated to me but that was instinct because he knew I was his carer and he would get food, warmth and security. So you don't believe dogs have an ability to love their people? They are just being pragmatic and self serving? Yes and no. I believe love is an emotion that requires higher order thinking. No, I don't believe they're being pragmatic and self serving as again, I believe both of these require higher order thinking. I believe dogs form attachments. I believe dogs form bonds. I believe dogs can show signs of depression in a clinical sense over the loss of something or someone they formed a bond with. But do they 'love'? No, I don't think they do. I don't think dogs look at one human over another and think 'Oh my, my heart human. How I love thee.' I'm sure my dogs gravitate toward me for several reasons, none of which are attributable to 'love'. I'm the main caregiver and the one most likely to play with them, feed them and tend to their needs. I'm the strong leader in the house. I do think it curious that Olivia shows a preference for males but I believe that is something that was formed in her earlier years or a preference for some other reason. Who knows. I am far from an animal behaviour expert. Edited August 6, 2013 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3labs Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 These are lovely stories. Both Ernie and Tess came from bad homes and I think they are as close to me as I am to them. When I got Tess everything about her told me to leave, but I couldn't. I had to get her out of the awful place and thought I would rehome home her. By the next day I knew she wouldn't be going anywhere else. At first she was terrified of women, and would only go to men. I am not sure when it happened, but for some time now she is attached to me and no longer pulls me down the road to see men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm sure my dogs gravitate toward me for several reasons, none of which are attributable to 'love'. I'm the main caregiver and the one most likely to play with them, feed them and tend to their needs. I'm the strong leader in the house. None of that explains though why the person my basset is most attached to is a 3 year old who doesn't feed her, doesn't walk her and doesn't train her. All she recieves from my 3 year old is cuddles, most of which the dog instigates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Over the course of my dog owning life I have been lucky enough to have a couple of dogs that have picked me as their person above all others. Currently I have Cowan who really isn't that interested in anyone other than me. He is not spooky, just merely takes a step back so those unfavoured people can't touch him. If they push it and try and bribe him with food he looks away and pretends he doesn't see/hear them. It does have it's disadvantages as he is extremely difficult to leave with anyone if I want to go away. On the other hand I have also had a dog who I am pretty sure didn't like me. She suffered my pats and cuddles but I always got the feeling I didn't quite measure up for Millie. Fortunately we become closer as she aged, she was a real character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I'm sure my dogs gravitate toward me for several reasons, none of which are attributable to 'love'. I'm the main caregiver and the one most likely to play with them, feed them and tend to their needs. I'm the strong leader in the house. None of that explains though why the person my basset is most attached to is a 3 year old who doesn't feed her, doesn't walk her and doesn't train her. All she recieves from my 3 year old is cuddles, most of which the dog instigates... Saying your three old is your dogs 'heart human' doesn't explain it either though. :) If your 3 year old walked into my house, my Boof would gravitate towards him too. Boof loves little toddlers and children. He'll immediately sit beside them. I've had him since he was 8 weeks old and he hasn't grown up with really small children. I have no idea why he loves kids. My cat on the other hand ran and hid in a bedroom the minute a toddler came into our house. Dogs simply do not possess complex emotions. That is scientific fact. It isn't something I've made up. This thread is as good as any example of anthropomorphism I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah82 Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 This thread is as good as any example of anthropomorphism I've seen. Alternatively you're just trying to ruin everyone's fun. Also being self serving does not require high order thinking, this comes from the Id, the part of our psyche that says "I want it and I want it now" and is focused on fulfilling your basic desires. Dogs are perfect examples of creatures that rely on the Id which is why dog training is very reward based, that's not to say that dogs aren't capable of outwardly displaying signs of other more complex emotions like sympathy and love although why they do this I suspect will continue to remain a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 This thread is as good as any example of anthropomorphism I've seen. Geez Anne, it was just a hypothetical question - none of us are offering up scientific studies to back up what we may have experienced. And the same could be said about people identifying a dog as their heart dog. They are just personal feelings and beliefs. I'm sure the dog doesn't have a clue about the depths of our feelings towards them. I doubt they understand love but they certainly exhibit signs of loyalty and protection and they certainly bond with some people far more than others. I have no idea why - hence the thread. Given we talk about dogs as companion animals there must be some emotional connection they make with us or they would exhibit the same behaviours with everyone who fed or patted them and we have all seen evidence that isn't the case. I am certainly not alone in ending up with a dog in my life that was never meant to be for me, but certainly seems to be the right thing for the dog. I was simply exploring that idea the same way we often explore the concept of heart dogs. Doesn't make scientific sense, but it may just exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 (edited) This thread is as good as any example of anthropomorphism I've seen. Alternatively you're just trying to ruin everyone's fun. Also being self serving does not require high order thinking, this comes from the Id, the part of our psyche that says "I want it and I want it now" and is focused on fulfilling your basic desires. Dogs are perfect examples of creatures that rely on the Id which is why dog training is very reward based, that's not to say that dogs aren't capable of outwardly displaying signs of other more complex emotions like sympathy and love although why they do this I suspect will continue to remain a mystery. Ruin everyone's fun? How? I'm not the one questioning others or their beliefs and opinions. It is my beliefs and opinion under scrutiny here. This thread is as good as any example of anthropomorphism I've seen. Geez Anne, it was just a hypothetical question - none of us are offering up scientific studies to back up what we may have experienced. And the same could be said about people identifying a dog as their heart dog. They are just personal feelings and beliefs. I'm sure the dog doesn't have a clue about the depths of our feelings towards them. I doubt they understand love but they certainly exhibit signs of loyalty and protection and they certainly bond with some people far more than others. I have no idea why - hence the thread. Given we talk about dogs as companion animals there must be some emotional connection they make with us or they would exhibit the same behaviours with everyone who fed or patted them and we have all seen evidence that isn't the case. I am certainly not alone in ending up with a dog in my life that was never meant to be for me, but certainly seems to be the right thing for the dog. I was simply exploring that idea the same way we often explore the concept of heart dogs. Doesn't make scientific sense, but it may just exist! I never asked anyone to offer scientific studies. I simply added my beliefs, just like everyone else and just like you said yourself. My thoughts were then questioned and so I responded to people questioning my beliefs. And I'm the bad guy!? :laugh: Perhaps you might want to add the disclaimer that only people who think canines have the ability to choose a 'heart person' need respond in the thread. :laugh: As for anthropomorphism, it is exactly that. Sorry if you feel that is harsh. It isn't meant to be a negative or positive. It simply is what is being described in this thread. Edited August 7, 2013 by ~Anne~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share Posted August 7, 2013 You may as well have said that the thread was stupid and that anybody who offered an opinion based on personal experience that it might exist is even stupider. There are all kinds of ponderings that go on in DOL. I like the diversity and that not everyone agrees or has the same experiences. I even love that there are actual experts on certain topics who are willing to share their knowledge. But how is a discussion about whether something that we humans feel or have experienced with our dogs, anthropomorphism? I'm not saying dogs have the same emotional abilities as humans. I'm asking is it possible that strong connections can be instigated by dogs for reasons unknown to us humans and has anyone else experienced something of this nature? Some have and some haven't. I've had this issue with you before where you have been dismissive of me discussing a personal experience. Just because my experiences may be different to yours does not make mine untrue, incorrect, impossible or wrong. It is simply different and it would be nice if it could be respected as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 If your 3 year old walked into my house, my Boof would gravitate towards him too. Boof loves little toddlers and children. Hang on. I thought you just said dogs weren't capable of feeling love. Dogs simply do not possess complex emotions. That is scientific fact. It isn't something I've made up. I think just about any one who had worked with dogs with an open mind would disagree with you. This thread is as good as any example of anthropomorphism I've seen. It is a long time since labelling someone anthropomorphic has been seen as a put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 My dogs and I like to hang together, call it what you will but we have fun :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I never asked anyone to offer scientific studies. I don't see why you should be confused. You said that it is a scientific fact that dogs don't have complex emotions. If you are going to state something categorically, you shouldn't get tetchy because someone asks you to show you where those scientific reports are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I'm sorry you feel that by my not sharing the same opinion as you makes you feel I am dismissive of what you feel. You are actually being dismissive of my thoughts and you are turning a discussion thread into a personal grievance that you appear to have with me. I am not being dismissive or indicating you or anyone else is stupid. I contributed to the thread and actually indicated my clear understanding and empathy saying that I'd like to think I was Monte's chosen one. I was questioned on my comments and I responded to them. You've chosen to take everything ive said perisnally. End of story. Attributing human abilities to a non-human form is anthropomorphism. Love is a complex human emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 I think we know what Anthropomorphism is, Anne. As I said, it is long time since saying someone is "guilty" of anthropomorphism is a put down. If human beings consider themselves a higher intelligence, they should have the intelligence to know that there are more things they don't understand than they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 End of story. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 End of story. Really? Get over it and stop picking a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 Not interested in the drama, but I think most dogs would warm to someone - anyone - who feeds them for 15 years +, walks them every day , trains them, and provides them with the necessities of life. I love my dogs and we have a great relationship, but they'd be just as happy living with mr & mrs cosmolo. I'm glad about that as it shows they have coping skills and they wouldn't fall apart if I wasn't around (they'd pine for a while, but them they'd move on ), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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