So Annoyed!

[stellnme]

on a completely unrelated note. WTF is with voting in led pencil? Do we really trust people not to change them?

Pencils are used because they are cheaper, they last longer, are more easily stored and less likely to be stolen. Having worked in polling places at elections, it is quite impossible to tamper with the votes - they are put into a sealed box by the voters themselves, then counted in the presence of the scrutineers and the polling official/s, so all above board!

[Tralee]

That IS NSW Tralee.

I know but it is prescriptive not proscriptive.

I've worked in NSW schools all my life, and I would confidently take my dogs on to school premises (out of hours) which are not fenced with locked gates.

As a corollary, Agricultural High Schools have fenced areas for this very reason.

[Rosetta]

I see the point in MUP's case is the inconsistency in allowing some dogs in but not others. It comes down to having no guidelines in place and people - who often really have no proper training - applying their own illogical "rules" on the day.

[Salukifan]

That IS NSW Tralee.

I know but it is prescriptive not proscriptive.

I've worked in NSW schools all my life, and I would confidently take my dogs on to school premises (out of hours) which are not fenced with locked gates.

As a corollary, Agricultural High Schools have fenced areas for this very reason.

No Tralee, it isn't. Your experience and confidence in breaking a law doesn't make what you do legal.

[Salukifan]

on a completely unrelated note. WTF is with voting in led pencil? Do we really trust people not to change them?

The Electoral Act specifies pencil. But you can use your own pen if you want to.

The level of scruitineering is meant to prevent changes to ballot papers. Apparently the rationale for pencil is that they can be sharpened whereas pens just run out. Or so the AEC says.

[Christina]

I don't think any of the dogs should be allowed in, there are places dogs just don't need to go.

& this is a huge contribution to the problem we have with dog attacks, adults & children being scared of dogs, dogs being scared of adults & children & imagined breed hysteria.

Dogs need to go everywhere & this was a perfect example of a good chance to socialise the dog which was made unpleasant by someones uncalled for bad attitude.

[Are You Serious Jo]

What about the rights of people who are allergic or are frightened of dogs, don't you think they have rights too? I love dogs but there are times I want to do people things with no dogs.

Tralee, do you realise you are arguing law with two solicitors now? You clearly don't understand the laws they are discussing. If I were you I'd be listening closely because you are getting some good hints on how to keeps your dogs safe and you out of trouble.

[Clyde]

Personally I would not leave my dog tied up outside on a fence with lots of people around and out of my line of sight.

I don't get the need to take the dog when you go and do things like voting - I do dog things with my dog and leave him at home when I do people things.

I agree. I can't stand going to 'people things' and dogs are there. I work with dogs, I have dogs, so chances are other peoples dogs hone in on this and don't leave me alone. I resent taking my daughter to kiddies parks and people having their dogs there. I should be able to relax and not watch out for other peoples dogs in a dog free zone. Other people assume that everyone loves their dogs because ohmydogtheyresocute. Even yesterday, I went to an Open House for a friend and they had a huge GSD there in the yard. He stunk and would not leave me alone, I got GSD hair all over my pants and then they stunk too. The owners should have locked him up or taken him out with them - lovely old boy but I was not in dog mode and so not in the mood. I also had my daughter with me and nobody knew if the dog was friendly or not so had to make her sit out on front step on her own.

Don't inflict your pets on others if it's not a suitable environment for them. Half the time I think they become peoples' security blankets.

[westiemum]

on a completely unrelated note. WTF is with voting in led pencil? Do we really trust people not to change them?

The Electoral Act specifies pencil. But you can use your own pen if you want to.

The level of scruitineering is meant to prevent changes to ballot papers. Apparently the rationale for pencil is that they can be sharpened whereas pens just run out. Or so the AEC says.

And I took my own mine pencil and eraser as I voted below the line in the senate - and the eraser was very handy!!!

[mita]

Personally I would not leave my dog tied up outside on a fence with lots of people around and out of my line of sight.

I wouldn't either. Even if there's a 'designated' dog parking area.... & even if there's someone posted to keep an eye on the dogs there.

Too many risks for my dog from being out of my immediate supervision out in public. Being stolen, another dog attacking, some stupid member of the public hurting or teasing. The list goes on.

If my dogs can't be in my immediate care.... all the time.... when out in public places, then they don't go.

Edited September 8, 2013 by mita

[westiemum]

I don't think any of the dogs should be allowed in, there are places dogs just don't need to go.

& this is a huge contribution to the problem we have with dog attacks, adults & children being scared of dogs, dogs being scared of adults & children & imagined breed hysteria.

Dogs need to go everywhere & this was a perfect example of a good chance to socialise the dog which was made unpleasant by someones uncalled for bad attitude.

Yes I agree Christina. The attitude to dogs in Australia needs re-balancing IMO. There needs to a loosening up of dogs in public places. Its rare (ever?) I hear of leashed dogs creating problems. There's a very dog friendly cafe (outside) near me and with my three westies, all leashed, and a couple of other dogs all at the feet of their owners and there's never been a problem. The cafe owners wouldn't allow it if there was .

I ran into a westie in the BA baggage queue at Vienna International Airport in 2010 and no-one, absolutely no-one batted an eye-lid - he was leashed, trotting along and there to greet his 'Mum' who was coming home (Of course I chatted with his owner). Can you imagine the uproar if a dog so much as put a whisker inside an Australian airport?? I'd be a major incident of epic proportions. I have often wondered if there is a connection between dog fear, breed fear, dogs being scared (and more unpredictable) of people and dog fights and bites and our highly restrictive dog practices in public. Sooooo many people seem to have no experience with animals these days - part of the problem and/or part of the hygiene obsession??

Edited September 8, 2013 by westiemum

[westiemum]

Personally I would not leave my dog tied up outside on a fence with lots of people around and out of my line of sight.

I wouldn't either. Even if there's a 'designated' dog parking area.... & even if there's someone posted to keep an eye on the dogs there.

Too many risks for my dog from being out of my immediate supervision out in public. Being stolen, another dog attacking, some stupid member of the public hurting or teasing. The list goes on.

If my dogs can't be in my immediate care.... all the time.... when out in public places, then they don't go.

Agree in the sense that my dogs need to be under my complete control in public - but I think we are making a rod for our own backs in not exposing leashed controlled dogs and people to each other sensibly in more public places. The rest of the world seems to manage it, why can't we?

Edited September 8, 2013 by westiemum

[mita]

Brisbane's Sunday Mail newspaper this morning has bunch of pics from around voting locations. One shows a cute little white dog, on a leash, sitting behind its owner's feet, as she fills in her ballot paper.

[westiemum]

Brisbane's Sunday Mail newspaper this morning has bunch of pics from around voting locations. One shows a cute little white dog, on a leash, sitting behind its owner's feet, as she fills in her ballot paper.

Same here Mita. The woman next to me in the polling stataion had a very well behaved mixbreed dog, possibly a foxie mix a on a leash next to me. He looked a bit like Ollie my previous foster which is why I noticed him (and I was there a while as I voted below the line! ) . He was a lovely little dog and not a problem at all and well under control. Nobody seemed concerned.

[Guest donatella]

Some attitudes in here show just how undog friendly Australia really is. In America and Europe you'd be faced with dogs in people places and have to like it, in bars, hotels, on planes, trains etc.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Australian dog owners aren't considerate enough for the government to allow dogs to go everywhere. Don't worry he is friendly would be heard everywhere as dogs were chewing on legs or other dogs. We can't even get people to keep leads on. IF people were more responsible I'd like to see dogs able to go more places. Not everywhere because non dog people have rights too. I don't want to be confronted with the nuf nufs we have now with their out of control dogs.

[mixeduppup]

Australian dog owners aren't considerate enough for the government to allow dogs to go everywhere. Don't worry he is friendly would be heard everywhere as dogs were chewing on legs or other dogs. We can't even get people to keep leads on. IF people were more responsible I'd like to see dogs able to go more places. Not everywhere because non dog people have rights too. I don't want to be confronted with the nuf nufs we have now with their out of control dogs.

But would they be just as out of control if they were allowed most places and had the socialisation and training they required just by a change in lifestyle? Right now most dogs are kept so fenced in, caged up, locked up that we wouldn't have any idea what it would be like to let them have more access and be with their people. I loved being in America as dogs were allowed so many places that we deny them.

[minimax]

Australian dog owners aren't considerate enough for the government to allow dogs to go everywhere. Don't worry he is friendly would be heard everywhere as dogs were chewing on legs or other dogs. We can't even get people to keep leads on. IF people were more responsible I'd like to see dogs able to go more places. Not everywhere because non dog people have rights too. I don't want to be confronted with the nuf nufs we have now with their out of control dogs.

Exactly.

When I was in Europe there was dogs everywhere, and it was great (especially when I saw a pair of black pugs in a bakery :laugh: ). And they were all on a lead. Aussie's wouldn't cope with having to leash their dogs if they were able to take them everywhere Europeans could, the freedom would just be too much and they would be compelled to abuse it.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Australian dog owners aren't considerate enough for the government to allow dogs to go everywhere. Don't worry he is friendly would be heard everywhere as dogs were chewing on legs or other dogs. We can't even get people to keep leads on. IF people were more responsible I'd like to see dogs able to go more places. Not everywhere because non dog people have rights too. I don't want to be confronted with the nuf nufs we have now with their out of control dogs.

But would they be just as out of control if they were allowed most places and had the socialisation and training they required just by a change in lifestyle? Right now most dogs are kept so fenced in, caged up, locked up that we wouldn't have any idea what it would be like to let them have more access and be with their people. I loved being in America as dogs were allowed so many places that we deny them.

You make it sound like dogs are required to be kept caged all their life whereas the truth is we have lots of places dogs can go and do. Yet with this freedom it is abused with dogs continually let off leash and other on lead dogs attacked. If those dog owners cannot manage to socialise and train their dogs with the large amount of freedom they currently have what makes you think more freedom will make that change? There is no point comparing us to other countries because we have an entirely different culture, too many people with no respect for anyone else.

[mixeduppup]

Australian dog owners aren't considerate enough for the government to allow dogs to go everywhere. Don't worry he is friendly would be heard everywhere as dogs were chewing on legs or other dogs. We can't even get people to keep leads on. IF people were more responsible I'd like to see dogs able to go more places. Not everywhere because non dog people have rights too. I don't want to be confronted with the nuf nufs we have now with their out of control dogs.

But would they be just as out of control if they were allowed most places and had the socialisation and training they required just by a change in lifestyle? Right now most dogs are kept so fenced in, caged up, locked up that we wouldn't have any idea what it would be like to let them have more access and be with their people. I loved being in America as dogs were allowed so many places that we deny them.

You make it sound like dogs are required to be kept caged all their life whereas the truth is we have lots of places dogs can go and do. Yet with this freedom it is abused with dogs continually let off leash and other on lead dogs attacked. If those dog owners cannot manage to socialise and train their dogs with the large amount of freedom they currently have what makes you think more freedom will make that change? There is no point comparing us to other countries because we have an entirely different culture, too many people with no respect for anyone else.

Maybe that respect starts with giving people a little bit more freedom. Perhaps they think they have to let their dog off because it isn't allowed anywhere else. With a bit of education and a more dog-friendly nation we could possibly earn respect and trust.