Border Collie Breeders?

[melzawelza]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has come to me recently for advice on getting a dog that fits her family. She is intending to purchase from a Registered breeder (yay!) and is really doing heaps and heaps of research which is great.

The dog she really wants is a Border Collie but is unsure if one would be the right fit for her family.

She has a 3.5yo and a 1.5yo.

Have talked to her at length about supervision with children, mouthy puppies, training etc and she is really going about everything the right way and learning everything she can. She is also prepared to wait if now isn't the right time for a puppy.

I've asked her how much time she could realistically dedicate to exercise and she has said an hour a day. Now, I am not a Border person but I am wondering if there are any breeders who have lines that are more laid back and may be suitable for the kind of lifestyle my friend can offer? She understands about mental stimulation as well which I've discussed with her at length.

She is more than prepared to look at another breed if Borders just aren't suitable full stop but because Borders aren't my breed I've really gone as far as I can with advising on whether they may be suitable, and I think at this point she needs to speak to a few breeders who could hear her situation and let her know if any of their dogs may be suitable.

Does anyone have any breeder recommendations that have dogs that are maybe less performance-bred and more suited to home life with an active family with children that she could contact?

ETA: This is her first dog, and her first experience with registered breeders, so I'm hoping that whatever breeders may be recommended will also be open and willing to chat to her about the topic (some are not so inviting!).

Edited November 26, 2013 by melzawelza

[RiverStar-Aura]

I know nothing of BC's but I do feel they have the potential to be good family pets. Regardless of breed, all puppies are hard work and time consuming so as long as your friend puts in the time and effort, things could go well.

The main thing, aside from suitable breeds, is to look at your life and make sure you can fit a puppy into the schedule. The kids are young and will be taking up a lot of your friend's time, so is she able to add a third child (for lack of better word) into the mix?

If yes, then go for it!! :D Good on her for looking into registered breeders first!

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I wouldn't rule them out, but I'd be getting her to go and meet some as they can all be very different! My 2 are not getting heaps of time from me at the moment and they are coping fine, but they have been trained to cope with that. Certainly if I'd not been able to give Kenz 45+min walks plus heaps of training and play every day when she was up to 2 years old, my life would have been miserable. Hamish however has just been chilled out from day 1. So BC's are not a breed I'd rule out but I'd also be looking at what else is out there. And I think I'd also be asking (which you probably have) why she wants a BC?

But if she can give around an hour of exercise each day as well as some training and if the dog was a house dog and living with the family then I wouldn't rule out a BC. But I'd be looking out for working/performance dogs in the lines as then she might be getting in to dogs that are needing more than she may be able to give!

[Agility Dogs]

I've got a bit of experience now with BC's but not much with kids so for what it's worth......

I've got 3 active BC's and all are great with kids, but all need management around kids (or management of kids.) One would chase and nip if given the chance, one can knock kids over if they are playing and the kid holds the ball (or whatever toy) up - she will jump at it. (Which to be fair is what she's been taught to do). The third one doesn't like having his tail or pants pulled at (really doesn't like) and while I can do it I'm not sure that a child would be accorded the same level of tolerance (he tried to bite me the first time I pulled a burr our of his pants).

The other thing is that they are an active breed that need a job. Even my lazy boy who I've built drive into needs a job or he becomes more difficult to manage. I'm not saying that all BC's need to do agility or something equally as challenging, but they do need time and a place in the family as an absolute minimum requirement if you want them to be sane. I don't know (genuinely don't know because I have no experience) whether the demands of a young family will allow that.

Once they've considered whether they can manage/cope with this sort of thing (I'm not saying all dogs are like mine, but they need to consider that they could be like that or could have any one of a thousand other behaviours)then would be the time to start looking at breeders.

Like any breed there is a massive difference in temperament so talking to breeders in their area is a great place to start. I like breeders I can talk to and who will show an ongoing interest in my dogs.

[Agility Dogs]

I wouldn't rule them out, but I'd be getting her to go and meet some as they can all be very different!

But I'd be looking out for working/performance dogs in the lines as then she might be getting in to dogs that are needing more than she may be able to give!

SNAP.

[*kirty*]

Also tell her to look at Aussie Shepherds. Similar temperament to BCs but can be a little more chilled out than BCs.

[melzawelza]

Thanks so much guys, all very helpful and along the lines of what I have said too (that there is a lot of variation even within a breed, and it can be hard to know when getting a puppy whether the dog is going to be higher or lower energy etc).

Kirty I did mention Aussie Shepherds for that exact reason but it was in amongst a lengthy post with all sorts of info so I'll see if she missed it of if she's had a look.

I've made a few other breed suggestions too, another option for them may be a Lab but I've warned her that Lab puppies can be absolute destructo nightmare dogs when puppies/young adults and she needs to be prepared! :laugh:

If anyone can recommend any breeders that she could call to have a chat to that would be much appreciated! I know there are a lot of fad colour breeders in BC so would prefer some recommendations.

Edited November 26, 2013 by melzawelza

[Pretty Miss Emma]

Thanks so much guys, all very helpful and along the lines of what I have said too (that there is a lot of variation even within a breed, and it can be hard to know when getting a puppy whether the dog is going to be higher or lower energy etc).

Kirty I did mention Aussie Shepherds for that exact reason but it was in amongst a lengthy post with all sorts of info so I'll see if she missed it of if she's had a look.

I've made a few other breed suggestions too, another option for them may be a Lab but I've warned her that Lab puppies can be absolute destructo nightmare dogs when puppies/young adults and she needs to be prepared! :laugh:

If anyone can recommend any breeders that she could call to have a chat to that would be much appreciated! I know there are a lot of fad colour breeders in BC so would prefer some recommendations.

Would she prefer someone in her state or is she happy to go interstate?

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I just read this which was on FB, and it poses some good questions to ask yourself before getting a puppy and is a bit of fun to read! I definitely agree with the bit saying how many of the certain breed of dog have you met and how many breeders have you spoken to - good points! But it is a bit of a fun read with a good message.

[kelpiecuddles]

That blog is awesome PME, know what I'm reading tonight :D

To the OP, I got a kelpie when my children were small. I don't think it's a total no go BUT I spent A LOT of time in the first 6-12 months or so and just trained the hell out of her, first thing being an off switch. Now that she's older and well trained the time she needs from me is much, much less and it's more enjoyable because it's less training and more just having fun but if she can't commit that time in the first 12 months then I wouldn't go for any working breed.

Edited November 26, 2013 by kelpiecuddles

[dancinbcs]

I have sold Borders puppies to families with very young children but the parents have been super organised, Dad has been happy to be the dog trainer and exerciser and they have been experienced dog owners. Also there is often only one or two puppies in an average litter that suits this sort of situation and sometimes there is none. The right puppy is much more important than the lines or the breeder but the breeder needs to be able to recognise what a suitable puppy is for different stages of the lives of families.

What I have never done is sold a Border puppy to anyone as their very first dog. To me this is like learning to drive in a Ferrari. I have always had plenty of experienced homes to sell to so have never needed to consider a complete novice dog owner but really doubt I would consider selling a puppy to one. If your friend is planning on being the one to raise and train the dog as well as look after two toddlers then I really think this is the wrong time for her to get a puppy of any sort. Better to wait until her youngest child is 3 before getting a dog and then consider a young adult dog with some training, perhaps a failed show dog, if she really wants a Border. Otherwise look at easier breeds and Aussies are not much easier and have the added disadvantage of liking to play much rougher than Borders, so are likely to send a toddler flying. Raising Border puppies is easy if you know what you are doing but a nightmare, especially for the dog, if you don't. They read your body language all the time and respond to it, so you need to know how to act around them. Some can be incredibly destructive and others never destroy anything, regardless of how they are raised and trained. They are a breed that needs to be with the family and are not happy shoved out in a yard on their own.

[benshiva]

Also tell her to look at Aussie Shepherds. Similar temperament to BCs but can be a little more chilled out than BCs.

Sorry I disagree with this comment. I have a lot to do with both breeds together and the Aussies are far more "clown like" and on the go than the Borders. I don't find them chilled out compared to Borders at all.

Just my observations though

I must add, I've sold Borders to people with young kids on quite a few occassions. I DID however make sure that the calmest puppy in the litter went to these people. In 14 years I've never had a complaint.

I have also sold to first time owners, I've been careful and made sure that the people had the correct attitude toward Border ownership and were active and willing to spend a TONNE of time training and living with the dog.

Edited November 26, 2013 by benshiva

[rusty&biscuit]

I have to agree with some of the things said about Aussies, they do like to play rough and my own has sent my younger cousins flying before, and they were 10 at the time! So you'd have to be quite careful with a 1.5 year old I'd imagine. But as we all know there are individuals in the breed and either mine is more boisterous than normal, or she's have to search for one less boisterous than normal...if that makes sense :laugh:

But good on her for doing her research and being so committed to finding the right dog for her family, please keep us updated

[Mystiqview]

With every litter of puppies - there will be the introvert and the extravert. Regardless of breed.

People tell you to "pick the first puppy that comes to you" - this is the extravert and will generally always be the first into everything. The best puppy often for newbies is the second or third puppy that comes to you. They have sat back that little bit and assessed that you are good to go to, where as the first puppy has gone "oh goodie - new shiny thing". The introvert can also be a good puppy - but bear in mind that these puppies can also take more work as they do not have the same initial confidence as their extroverted litter mates.

Introduce the introverted puppy to the wrong stimuli during a fear period (all puppies have them) and you can make them fearful of that for life. The biggest mistake that many make is doing the show and tell as soon as they get their new puppy home. Let the puppy get used to the family and routine before taking it around to everyone and having big family bbq's.

I have sold BC's to new families as a first dog - not everyone is an idiot or is unable to look after a border collie first up. Would I sell them the most unruly dog in the litter - NEVER. A good breeder will try to match the personality of their pups/lines/breeding to the family who is enquiring - not just sell them the first puppy they see. If a breeder has nothing suitable for the family, a good breeder would also say so in a nice way and possibly give suggestions of other good ethical breeders the person could try.

Maybe also look at an older dog first up. Many breeders will run on two pups for 6 months - 12 months as possible show potentials and later decide that one pup just does not have that element they are looking for. Perfectly good pups and you have bypassed the teething, chewing and bad parts of puppy hood. These dogs should also have been given basic training and manners.

I have also found that it is just as important to exercise the brain as much as exercising the body. A bored DOG is a destructive dog - it does not need to be a border collie/working dog be destructive. The brain can easily be exercised by tricks and obedience, rally-o etc.

[Dame Aussie]

Will it just be her or does she have a partner that will be helping? I think an hour a day may not be enough while the dog is young, especially with two toddlers

I wouldn't recommend any working breed to be honest, it could go ok but if it doesn't she will have a lot of issues with two babies and a BC puppy!

Re Aussies, not at all calmer than BC's in my experience, mine is mental and probably wouldn't cope in the situation you've described, attention wise anyway.

[sparkycat]

What about a Lappie? - they are very gentle with kids and are happy to lounge around all day or go for a run. Mine is always being mistaken for a BC X .

[Mystiqview]

In all honesty though.

I have known single parents with young children do much better with working/active dogs that single person or even a family with older children. Or someone who have their dog as an outside dog only for example.

I think just because they have a young family does not automatically qualify them as unsuitable for a working or active dog.

The best you can do is give them all the information of the good, bad and damn ugly and let them make an educated decision from there. At some point in time, they need to start doing their own research and start talking to breeders and get a feel for whether a particular breed is suitable to their lifestyle.

I am sure Benshiva can give some good NSW breeders locally to them.

[OSoSwift]

I think just because they have a young family does not automatically qualify them as unsuitable for a working or active dog.

Exactly!

[Esky the husky]

Yep, they might be a young family that goes out for long walks with the stroller and takes the dog along for rides in the car when dropping kids off at kindy or whatever.

That said sparkycat's suggestion of a Lappie is not a bad one either if the family could commit to a little bit of grooming :)

[Dame Aussie]

Yeah of course, I'm only going off the OP and erring on the side of caution. I wouldn't cope with a working dog and two toddlers so I guess I'm basing my advice on me :laugh:

Melz will know whether her friend is up to it or not I'm sure :)

Edited November 27, 2013 by Aussie3