Epilepsy

[BC Crazy]

Hi everyone,

Well as the topic suggests, my 3 year old BC girl Stella had an Epileptic seizure early yesterday evening I was so scared as I didn't know what had happened to her. She always gets very upset if our neighbor mows his lawn, last night he started mowing so Stella raced outside to investigate. I pretty much followed her out.

Next thing I notice Stella on her tummy on the ground whining with all 4 legs contorted & sticking out at strange angles. Her whole body was contracting & she was slightly frothing at the mouth. My first thoughts was she had run into something & damaged her spine or something like that. I was beside myself with fear. She kept trying to move but seemed paralysied. Her eye's looked like she was semi unconscious but she was still wagging her tail, bless her. I screamed for MrBCC to come & I went & got a towel & some water. We gathered her up in the towel & wet her head to try & soothe her also to cool her off as she seemed very hot. In all honesty I thought we'd lost her. Rushed her to the Vet's. There was some blood on the back deck where she was laying so we thought she may of impaled herself on a stick or something. The Vet checked her all over & she seemed to be improving very slowly & regained movement in her legs somewhat. He sent us home to keep her under close supervision, which we did. The drops of blood confused him as otherwise all symptoms are leaning to an Epileptic seizure. Turns out the blood wasn't Stella's but MrBCC, he had cut his knee amongst all the kaos.

Went back to the Vets this morning to have some blood work done on Stella & will find out the results in the next few days. All in all a very worrying time. My main concerns are it is so unknown when or even if she will have more seizures. I'm frightened to leave her for a second now in case it happens again. What is the correct way to handle these turns? I just went to pieces. You just feel so bloody terrified. Very worrying times....My poor girl

Wondering if any other folks have had any experience with Epilepsy. I have no experience with this. Many thank's in advance.

[Guest hankodie]

Oh BC, how worrying and awful for you and Stella I don't have any advice, just want to wish her a speedy recovery. Hope the blood results will shed some insight as to what's going on. Big hugs to you and Stella

[BC Crazy]

Thanks hankodie. Yes it is so worrying & you feel so helpless. It was really scarey as I didn't know what was wrong at the time. A million things go running through your head. Stella seems to be doing OK atm although rather quiet . She seems emotionally drained as I am I think. Her grandmother suffers with Epilepsy I found out after having Stella for a couple of months, though I am unsure if Epilepsy is genetic.

[Guest Ams]

I have Grosby who has epilepsy. I had to monitor his seizures to see how frequently they were before they could start medication. I think I had to keep a diary for three weeks. When it was apaarent he was having multiple seizures a week he was started on medication. I am happy to say 50mg of Phenomav twice daily has stopped his seizures altogether. (that I am aware of). He only had seizures at night so he now sleeps in my bed and I have a water proof mattress protector on the bed so if he does have an episode I only have to strip the bed and remake and not worry about the mattress.

When she is fitting try not to intervene ant let the fit take its course. I would hold Grosby's head so he didn't pound it on the concrete but other than that didn't try to restrain him at all. Time the fits if you can and also the recover period as the vet will need this information to grade how severe the epilepsy is. Once the fit was over I would sit with him and talk in a soothing voice and stroke him as he came out of his confused state. He was always then wander up the hall for a small drink of water and I would steady him.

It is freaky when they are having the episodes so remind yourself to keep calm, especially if you have other dogs around as you need to keep them calm as well.

He would be extremely tired for the next 24 hours so I would just let him be.

Since starting on medication he has only had one fit and that was early on when I missed a morning dose. Now I can miss the occasional dose and it doesn't matter as it has built up in his system.

[Tassie]

BCC so very sorry to hear this - you must have been out of your mind with worry.

Epilepsy is not as common among Border Collies here in Australia as it is in the US, I think - and there are some great resources on the net.

Here are a couple that you might find useful as background

link

This one links to a support/discussion group link

And I think this one is regarded as pretty reliable

link

dancinbcs here on DOL is a great source of information about Border Collies. It might be worth flicking her a PM.

I think for dogs the advice is the same as for humans - try to keep yourself calm, keep the dog and yourself comfortable and uninjured, and just speak soothingly until the worst is past. (If the seizure persists more than a few minutes, then straight to vet as emergency.) The dog may be somewhat vague and disoriented for a time after the seizure.

[~Anne~]

Ams, this is very important. Your dog is at risk of seizure with every tablet you miss!

Phenobarbital only stays level for 12 hours before the levels begin to reduce. It doesn't matter how long they have been on the drug. That is why it is administered every 12 hours. It does not stay in the system. Please do not skip doses and ensure you give it to your dog as close as possible to the 12 hours every day.

The only anti epileptic drug that builds up and where the occasional missed dose doesn't matter is bromide. I don't think Keppra builds up either but I could be wrong on that one as it isn't commonly used in Australia and I only used it for a short period with Monte and only when he suffered a cluster of seizures.

BC crazy, we have another member who has spent many years with her BC with epilepsy. Message CaseyKay.

Monte, my epileptic pug passed away earlier this year. He battled epilepsy for over 9 years. He suffered clusters and could have 4 or 5 within an hour. For the most part he was a happy little pug though and lived till a few days short of his 11th birthday.

The post ictal phase, which is the phase post seizure is different for every dog. Monte would run manic before he wound down. Some dogs even become aggressive during this phase. The most important thing is to ensure they cannot injure themselves during the seizure and to keep them cool. During the seizure their heart rate increases dramatically and their body temperature goes up. I used to put the air con on even in Winter but then I was dealing with a brachy breed and they dot. Have great cooling systems anyway.

I always gave Monte some ice cream or yoghurt after a cluster. It helped cool him and helped with fatigue. He did get very tired after a cluster but then he was having a good number of seizures and also running manic. I used to hold him in between to stop him crashing into walls. He used to run around as though he was blind.

If you can, film the next episode. Grab your phone if it is handy. Your vet will need to know the type of seizure and the frequency. There are many types of seizures. It sounds link your dog experienced a tonic clonic, which is what used to be called a grand mal. There are also petite mals and focals.

Seizures can be caused by disease, toxins and injury. When the tests show everything is fine and there is no known cause for the seizures it is given the diagnoses of epilepsy. Not all dogs with epilepsy require medication. If your dog does, rest assured it's not the ned of the world.

[Salukifan]

Don't panic yet.

Easy to say i know but one seizure is not an epilepsy diagnosis.

I have had a dog seize. Once. Never did it again.

Can I suggest you find a qualified and recommended dog chiropractor had have her thoroughly checked as part of working through what happened.

Sorry, ETA yes, epilepsy can have a genetic component - some breeds are more prone to it than others for a start.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Christina]

My daughters chihuahua died aged 16. He had his first seizure at age 3 years. Was out with me gardening & keeled over & was out of it. Thought it was a spider bite & dashed & put him in the car & drove to the vets but when we arrived he was fine as though nothing had occurred.

He had seizures spasmodically with no set pattern. Sometimes he would go a year or more with none & them maybe get 2 in a week. The vet said it wasn't severe or regular enough to need medication. I did notice the few times it happened my doberman bitch was on heat & he was grumpy & frustrated. Maybe coincidence or a trigger, not sure.

Its not always severe & is manageable.

[Guest Ams]

Anne, I don't deliberately skip doses. I am human and sometimes life gets in the way and I forget or am not able to be home to give it.

Grosby had an intestinal blockage and wasn't able to have his phenomav for a week. He was under veterinary care the whole time and they said it wasn't a big consideration.

Obviously I try very very hard to remember to give it to him. He has his own meds dispenser so I know what he has to have and when. It is not his only medication at times and sometimes it can't be given at the same time as other medications.

BC Crazy sorry for derailing your thread.

[~Anne~]

Sorry AMS if you though I was implying that you deliberately miss doses. I really didn't mean it that way. It was the comment: "it doesn't matter as it has built up in his system" that concerned me. Your vets have given you the wrong impression. It does not remain at therapeutic levels after 12 hours and declines fairly quickly.

I know how life gets in the way. My life revolved around Monte's medication schedule and it certainly wasn't easy. I can also admit to giving some doses late. It's life. You can only do the best you can.

[Guest Ams]

Thank you Anne for the apology. I can see why you were concerned.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

I hope Stella and you are ok BC Crazy. How scary. Best wishes from me and Kenzie and Hamish that all works out ok.

[BC Crazy]

Thanks everyone for your support, advice & kind regards :)

Stella hasn't had another turn so far which is great. She actually seems to be her normal, very happy self. Although a tad quieter.

Tassie, thank you for those informative links. I will be going through those. Have just pm'd Dancin, great idea. She is a wealth of knowledge :)

Am's, no worries about the derailing thingo. Takes more than that to upset me LOL.

Anne, I have pm'd Caseykay. thanks for the heads up.

HDW, Chiro is something I certainly didn't consider but will do so now.

Very interesting to read about others who own or have owned dogs with this medical issue. Seems it can be managed very well which is a relief.

I am going to try & remember to film it next time for the Vet to take a look at. I think I will be able to handle the next seizure, if there is one,

a lot better. Remember to breath as I will know what is going on. It was the 'unknown' with this whole episode that made it very frightening.

Fingers crossed everybody for the blood work results. It is a very worrying waiting game.

Edited December 24, 2013 by BC Crazy

[sandgrubber]

Don't panic yet.

Easy to say i know but one seizure is not an epilepsy diagnosis.

I have had a dog seize. Once. Never did it again.

+1

[BC Crazy]

Stella had another seizure this morning Poor girl. I could tell she wasn't herself when she woke up. She was acting very fearful. Wanted me to stay close to her. I think she could feel it coming on. Must be so frighteneing for them. This seizure wasn't as severe as the first. Her body contorted. Very heavy panting. She was still able to move her back legs though. She got very hot. Lasted longer than the first one though.

I knew what was happening & I remained very calm this time. Just stroked her head etc till it passed. Will continue to keep a very close eye on her . Am keeping a record of everything as well to show the Vet.

[~Anne~]

Poor girl and poor you.

She may also have had seizures you haven't noticed. The key signs for Monte having a seizure were wet patches. Not from urine, as he only ever urinated uncontrolled in the last year or two before he died, but from froth and drool. He often also had evidence of being damp or wet on the side of his face where he lay in his drool.

Monte had several different types of seizure activity. Sometimes, usually during his meals, he would stumble around as if drunk or choking. They were the hardest because it was hard to tell if he was choking and if I should panic or if it was another seizure and to keep calm. Some dogs do quirky things such as lfy snap only. Seizures are different for every dog and sometimes every seizure can be different.

Edited December 25, 2013 by ~Anne~

[BC Crazy]

I have thought she may have had other seizures without me noticing Anne. Quite possible. Stella always dribbles & has a slightly wet face as she has an over shot jaw plus she carries her beloved 'Pete" a stuffed pelican dog toy everywhere she goes in her mouth. So the wet face is very much part of Stella. She is a very quirky girl.

I was so hoping it was going to be a one off seizure but, no such luck

Edited December 25, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Guest Ams]

My vet said 3 years is a very common age for onset of epilepsy.

[BC Crazy]

Stel turned 3 last month Ams.... interesting.

She hasn't been herself all day. I think she has been on the brink of having another for the last couple of hours. Very clingy & panting a lot . Her eye's have 'the look'that I am now noticing coincides with her panic look before a seizure. Very lucky the house is very quiet for this feastive season so it has worked out well to keep her as chilled out as possible. So stressful for her & us.

Edited December 25, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Tassie]

Bummer. But it sounds like you are doing all the right htings - and as you say, it's good that your household is quiet at the moment - particularly since you said that she was pretty aroused before the first one.

The only good thing is that she's more likely to get on to meds more quickly than if she was only having random ones. Hopefully you'll be able to get her on a meds regime that suits her.