raineth Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Also we who clearly have and use the Internet, forget that there are still lots of people who don't. Advertising in print media or on the local notice boards gives these people a better opportunity to find a registered breeder. Not to mention that there may be breeders who a,so don't have the Internet, so print media is a more accessible way to advertise for them. There are a lot of things that influence whether a breeder is ethical etc, but in my opinion, where they advertise is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 How are people expected to find a decent Breeder when it is like a secret society, Breeders, the ANKC, Breed clubs and state bodies should be out there plastering the internet pages and weekend shopper pages with links help people find a well bred, well raised family dog. It has nothing to do with having to flog your pups off, it has everything to do with raising public awareness that they do have a choice. I can't believe how small minded and elitist some Breeders are becoming. Is it any wonder that memberships and puppy registration numbers are falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) How are people expected to find a decent Breeder when it is like a secret society, Breeders, the ANKC, Breed clubs and state bodies should be out there plastering the internet pages and weekend shopper pages with links help people find a well bred, well raised family dog. It has nothing to do with having to flog your pups off, it has everything to do with raising public awareness that they do have a choice. I can't believe how small minded and elitist some Breeders are becoming. Is it any wonder that memberships and puppy registration numbers are falling. Memberships are no longer falling. Indeed, 2012 memberships were an increase over the previous year. It's not all doom and gloom. ANKC membership stats can be downloaded here. Whilst far behind what they were in the 70's, they are not in free fall. Similarly there were some increases in Group litter registrations in 2012 Edited January 3, 2014 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 We got our first two irish terriers and our first kerry blue from ads in the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Reputable breeders don't need to advertise on those sites as they have people lining up and waiting for pups. I still haven't got over this little gem. Having a breed that is little known by the general public, despite the work we put into promoting it, and having litters than can and will be anywhere from 1 to 13 pups, the concept of having a whole waiting list just standing by is ridiculous and would take years and years to compile - then possibly result in people missing out if the litter is small!. It's common for a couple of people to be waiting, but 13??? What an arrogant and ignorant thing to say. Advertising pups is a vital part of breed promotion. If you only introduce one new person to a breed they had otherwise never heard of, it is worthwhile. I found my breed by a random chance encounter in a public place when I was a kid. And I bought my first purebred dog from a Trading Post ad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Wouldn't the problem of tyre kickers and lots of questions about temperament be answered by really informative ads? I've seen lots of ads on DOL with bare minimum information and the price rarely mentioned. I don't know why price is such a secret? If the price was mentioned, and maybe a bit about the temperament of each puppy and who they'd suit along with ' price not negotiable', wouldn't that help avoid people who don't suit? Especially if it was followed by a short description of the parents both being health tested (where necessary) and what socialisation has happened to make the price unnegotiable. It would certainly show that person has put more effort into raising great puppies than Joe Bloggs down the street who dropped their price when asked. I saw a great ad on Gumtree a while back where the seller had a picture of each pup and what they were like. Each comment mentioned what type of family that pup might best suit. For example it said something like 'I'm Ted. I'm adventurous and bold and am the first in to everything. I would suit someone who wants to do agility or dog obedience so I don't end up ruling your family' etc. At a minimum it could let those uneducated (about dogs) know there's more to buying a puppy than which one looks the cutest. I start advertising my pups once the bitch is confirmed pregnant, first emails to people do include a lot of information including price and the fact I will not know if there is a pup available for them until around 8 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I think for a registered breeder to have to advertise on Gumtree ~ would mean sinking very low, how could you build up a good reputation selling from a crap website? By advertising on Dolforum ~ you would give a buyer utmost confidence in the quality of your breeding stock, and it would be much more classy. Then again, I am of the old school, I found my fav GWP breeder by word of mouth ~ many years ago, with pups of said place always selling out fast, orders going in before they are ready to go, yes, notification of next litter can also be found on Dolforum. You need to read Steve's excellent post again. Do you have any idea how hard it is for some breeders to find good homes for their pups? We don't all breed cav's or golden's. Plenty of dodgy breeders on DOL eta the cav and goldie breeders also have to weed through potential homes, they just usually have a greater number of people interested in their breeds. Edited January 3, 2014 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You took the words right out of my mouth Rebanne. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The majority of my Maremma pups go to working homes.You don't find homes for a dozen working dog puppies from only dogz because its less likely those looking for a working dog think to look here. People who want a pet Maremma come here to look but the breed isnt suitable to just place it without lots of education and lots of screening. I have a litter here which was all sold by 10 days of age and only one of them came through the dogz ad. I get just as many enquiries for puppies when I have an ad up on dogz as I do at any other time BUT Ive been around a long time and now most of my puppy sales go to people who have already had one of my puppies or who know someone who has one of my puppies.I also have a website that is overloaded with stories about the breed and stacked with info to help people understand the breed before they get to speaking with me and I advertise where ever and when ever I get a whim to do so - sometimes when I dont even have any puppies or any expected. I talk lots of people out of the breed and constantly promote and talk about my breed and my dogs and Im good with tyre kickers because Id prefer the opportunity to make a difference to the way they may be thinking for the sake of the breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Just posted this in the FB discussion of the same topic: I can’t help but think some of the reluctance to advertise pups on pet oriented sites comes from the misapprehension that ANKC breeders aren’t in the business of supplying “pets”. “Pet” is an insult in some breeders’ views and it’s a view that needs to be altered and fast. WHERE is the harm in breeding pups of sound body and mind and carefully placing them in homes of people who want nothing more than a good companion? I think some of us need to get over ourselves and reach out to families looking for pups. Yes, you’ll have to sort out the tyrekickers and fantasists but you’ll also be making some families (and pups) very bloody happy. The future of the purebred fancy requires building and maintaining a demand for what we are capable of producing – healthy happy dogs for great family homes. Some of those homes will go onto become involved in the fancy and many of them will commence a life long love of the breeds we sell to them. Time we started to work towards it. If that is not your goal then well and good but you shouldn't be denigrating the people who are guaranteeing a future for their breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I was actually just reading a facebook thread similar and it backed up what you say exactly. One breeder was saying that they will never ever breed a litter for the pet market. It kind of left me wondering really, what’s so bad about that? If you breed responsibly and ethically and within reason I really can’t see how supplying the public with just (well bred, well adjusted and sound) pets can be such a cardinal sin? I thought I must just have missed something. I possibly still have! Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Some of it comes from those who think we shouldn't be breeding pets as you say H W but in the main its mythology created which tags a breeder as a puppy farmer etc if they breed more than they have homes for before they breed them or if they are seen in the same place as someone judged to be lesser people or breeders. Its been pushed by loonies for years and we let them run with it until now when you go looking for how to find a good breeder it will tell you to avoid those who advertise in papers and free websites etc Edited January 3, 2014 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I was actually just reading a facebook thread similar and it backed up what you say exactly. One breeder was saying that they will never ever breed a litter for the pet market. It kind of left me wondering really, what's so bad about that? If you breed responsibly and ethically and within reason I really can't see how supplying the public with just (well bred, well adjusted and sound) pets can be such a cardinal sin? I thought I must just have missed something. I possibly still have! Haha. The reality is that regardless of why you breed the majority of your puppies go to pet homes so whether you breed for the pet market or not you still have to find suitable homes and move out the ones you cant or don't want to keep and deal with the public. If you can do that without needing to advertise - good for you but most of us cant and Id refer to see puppies advertised on other sites and in papers with the breeders still being responsible for their placement than having them disappear and turning up dead or in pet shops because of the craziness it has become. Edited January 3, 2014 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Google often has Dogz at the top of the results when you do a search about buying a breed puppy. I think it's a safe place for people to get reliable information and a place to buy without having to sift through breeders who are falsely claiming to be registered and avoiding the bogus nigerian puppy scam. On sites with multiple types of puppy listings and the hazy understanding people have about doing their breeder homework (such as e.g. hip scores etc) I feel better sending them here or to a breed club/breed specific rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Google often has Dogz at the top of the results when you do a search about buying a breed puppy. I think it's a safe place for people to get reliable information and a place to buy without having to sift through breeders who are falsely claiming to be registered and avoiding the bogus nigerian puppy scam. On sites with multiple types of puppy listings and the hazy understanding people have about doing their breeder homework (such as e.g. hip scores etc) I feel better sending them here or to a breed club/breed specific rescue. Yep but more exposure of the good ones in places where the dodgy ones also advertise help people to see the difference too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I was actually just reading a facebook thread similar and it backed up what you say exactly. One breeder was saying that they will never ever breed a litter for the pet market. It kind of left me wondering really, what's so bad about that? If you breed responsibly and ethically and within reason I really can't see how supplying the public with just (well bred, well adjusted and sound) pets can be such a cardinal sin? I thought I must just have missed something. I possibly still have! Haha. What do they do with pups they don't want to show then? Drown them to keep them out of the hands of the majority pet owning public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I was actually just reading a facebook thread similar and it backed up what you say exactly. One breeder was saying that they will never ever breed a litter for the pet market. It kind of left me wondering really, what's so bad about that? If you breed responsibly and ethically and within reason I really can't see how supplying the public with just (well bred, well adjusted and sound) pets can be such a cardinal sin? I thought I must just have missed something. I possibly still have! Haha. What do they do with pups they don't want to show then? Drown them to keep them out of the hands of the majority pet owning public? Sadly some do - better that than have people talking about you because you have puppies you need to advertise - nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I was actually just reading a facebook thread similar and it backed up what you say exactly. One breeder was saying that they will never ever breed a litter for the pet market. It kind of left me wondering really, what's so bad about that? If you breed responsibly and ethically and within reason I really can't see how supplying the public with just (well bred, well adjusted and sound) pets can be such a cardinal sin? I thought I must just have missed something. I possibly still have! Haha. What do they do with pups they don't want to show then? Drown them to keep them out of the hands of the majority pet owning public? What that usually means is that they won't breed JUST for the pet market. The dogs not wanted or identified as show prospects are sold as pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Google often has Dogz at the top of the results when you do a search about buying a breed puppy. I think it's a safe place for people to get reliable information and a place to buy without having to sift through breeders who are falsely claiming to be registered and avoiding the bogus nigerian puppy scam. On sites with multiple types of puppy listings and the hazy understanding people have about doing their breeder homework (such as e.g. hip scores etc) I feel better sending them here or to a breed club/breed specific rescue. Yep but more exposure of the good ones in places where the dodgy ones also advertise help people to see the difference too. It's my comfort zone. I have zero information on who the dodgy breeders are. And there is still more info here than anywhere else AFAIK. Personally I tried listing rescues on the other sites with the same theory as you. That people should be able to see rescue dogs there too. (and through some kind of agreement every single animal listed on petrescue now shows up on trading post for this very reason). But I gave up. Lots of time wasted. The topper was the guy who constantly sends messages to rescuers that desexing a pet makes it mentally ill and retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) I was actually just reading a facebook thread similar and it backed up what you say exactly. One breeder was saying that they will never ever breed a litter for the pet market. It kind of left me wondering really, what's so bad about that? If you breed responsibly and ethically and within reason I really can't see how supplying the public with just (well bred, well adjusted and sound) pets can be such a cardinal sin? I thought I must just have missed something. I possibly still have! Haha. What do they do with pups they don't want to show then? Drown them to keep them out of the hands of the majority pet owning public? What that usually means is that they won't breed JUST for the pet market. The dogs not wanted or identified as show prospects are sold as pets. Thats exaxtly how it was meant, lucky. No drowning as far as i know! It does devalue the pet buyer a bit too, which is a shame but each to their own and whatever works for you. Edited January 3, 2014 by Steph M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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