Beauceron Needs A New Home

[Simply Grand]

Would the desexing agreement extend to the dog being moved out of the ACT though?

T.

I don't see how there should be any difference if an agreement was signed and the dog was released in good faith. Rare breed or not, I don't like that the topic hasn't been addressed if the dog is available for rehoming entire. If he'd come out under rescue there would be a Dol meltdown about dogs being rehomed entire.

Yes, if he remained in the ACT he couldn't legally remain entire, you can get permission to keep a dog entire after 6 months but both the dog and the owner have to be registered with a recognised registry, of which I assume there isn't one for the Beauceron? Whether he stayed in ACT or not I'd say a contract is being breached by not desexing him. I'd be very surprised (shocked?) if DAS did anything about it though.

However once the dog is in a different jurisdiction it would become subject to the laws of that jurisdiction rather than ACT's wouldn't it?

[Simply Grand]

Powerlegs does have a point, how many random cross bred dogs adopted from the pound are out there with the potential to be bred from intentionally or accidentally because their owners never honoured their desexing agreement? It isn't really up,to any of us to say that the LAW should apply to them but not to the people we trust because we trust them.

However I'll be very happy to hear that this fella has gone to a suitable and responsible home.

FYI if he had ended up at RSPCA instead of DAS he would definitely have been desexed before being released to anyone, even a rescue. Pure speculation but I wonder if that influenced the owner's decision to surrender to DAS instead.

[mixeduppup]

Saying this as an impartial observer..but wouldn't it be great if one rescue thread didn't end in a war?

[Simply Grand]

I'd say its still at discussion point

[Little Gifts]

I am a great supporter of desexing because it is one way of reducing the cycle of unwanted and abandoned dogs but I'm a great supporter of the continued breeding of quality pure bred dogs. I also respect that desexing is not the preferred option for quite a number of DOLers for a range of reasons, including age and breed - there have been some robust threads on this very topic.

What an amazing opportunity this is to have a rare breed of dog here in Australia, in the hands of what seems to be an experienced and responsible new owner. How it got there is a bit of a miracle. If this dog had not ended up in the pound (remember the original owner had been trying to rehome it on Gumtree) I think the comments on here regarding desexing would be quite different. Given the circumstances of this boy being the only one of his kind here in Australia, him being quite young, a large breed AND a working dog, I think it would be appropriate to let him go to his new owner and for his new owner to determine what he would like to do regarding desexing, based on what might be in the best interest of the dog at this point in time and this breed's future here in Australia. It should then be up to this owner to either abide by the agreement or contact the pound/recue group and seek some kind of exemption based on the rare circumstances because this is an unusual, one of a kind situation. For all we know there might be a breeder agreement that he is not to be bred or he may not be a good example of his breed. Maybe the new owner wasn't initially aware of this pound release condition. Maybe the new owner is not even interested in breeding him. Plus he doesn't even have a bitch to breed with in this country. None of this behind the scenes stuff is even our business. We are not the rescue group, pound police and no agreement has even been broken. The poor dog is not even in the new owner's possession yet.

I'm just going to focus on the small miracle that is him finding a new and what seems like perfect home.

[casowner]

I'm not sure where I sit with the whole thing either way I know that there is no way in hell I would let my boy go anywhere undesexed and I will also be importing a LGD breed into Australia and no puppies if I ever have any will go without desexing contracts. The main issue I see is that DAS has sold a dog with a desexing contract and it has been stated on a public forum that that contract will not be honoured which can affect other dogs from being released in future.

On a positive note it is fantastic that a breed savvy, experienced dog trainer will possibly be getting this dog as that is where he needs to be as it sounds like he has bounced enough which is certainly not good for any dog let alone one of his breed. Visually they don't do anything for me but they are very interesting as a breed

Being the only one of his breed in Australia is not a reason to keep them entire, he needs to be a fantastic example of the breed in all facets of his type to make him a breed Ambassador and the new owner would need to put the hard work to get the breed recognised. Having the dog as a working dog is a different story as Nekhbet stated and if that is the reason to keep the dog entire I can understand that but the one only reason makes no sense to me unless bitches were being imported to compliment him. I know someone in the process of bringing a first of the breed over here now and this dog is a fantastic example of the breed and there are absolutely no plans to have pups which is why I will import my own.

I have no doubt that he may be going where he needs to be and that is a huge positive and I am thrilled that he may get the opportunity to work and be trained how he deserves to be. The only thing that I can imagine my part European partner squeeing about is finding huge wads of money so imagining Nekhbet's friend doing that made me smile

Edited April 15, 2014 by casowner

[Nekhbet]

Any contracts can be honoured, the point is not to just whip the dogs balls out on a whim before testing him for what he's good for.

[HappyCamper]

I just dont understand why if he was suppose to be desexed its even under consideration to not do it. I guess that means that if other dogs are turned in and rescues want to get them from the pound and then adopt them out not desexed this is ok? How can we tar rescues for not desexing but then be ok with another dog rescued from a pound for being intact because he is a rare breed? Is a rescued dog a rescued dog? Cant he get in trouble for not getting the dog desexed when he signed saying he would and it was a condition for getting the dog out?

[HazyWal]

I'd say its still at discussion point

Exactly. It would be sad if a rare breed should fall into the wrong hands wouldn't it?

[trifecta]

If the dog was rehomed interstate then DAS would have required a stat dec to be signed. We actually don't know if the dog was purchased by an ACT resident or someone from interstate (which includes NSW although the border is within spitting distance). If the dog went interstate, the desexing argument is a moot point.... it is no longer relevant.

[Rebanne]

You may not see why, but a desex agreement is just that. A mutual agreement. DAS will sell you a dog if you agree to desex. They don't sell a dog if you don't agree.

I meant in relation to the comment - Because he's going to an Australian home he needs to be desexed.

Maybe you should re read my post and not isolate that comment but read it all in it's context.

[Rebanne]

Any contracts can be honoured, the point is not to just whip the dogs balls out on a whim before testing him for what he's good for.

so what happens if he isn't any good?

[Simply Grand]

If the dog was rehomed interstate then DAS would have required a stat dec to be signed. We actually don't know if the dog was purchased by an ACT resident or someone from interstate (which includes NSW although the border is within spitting distance). If the dog went interstate, the desexing argument is a moot point.... it is no longer relevant.

Ah yes, I didn't think of that. I get the impression (again speculating) that DAS has - not unreasonably - given consideration to this dog's individual situation.

I'd love to hear an update from the person who actually has the dog... but I understand not everyone is on DOL all the time :) ETA - that being Brightstar 123.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Simply Grand

[Pjrt]

Wow really people. Doesn't the saying 'exceptional circumstances' spring to any one else mind. If the dog goes to what sounds like a really good fitting home, and turns out to be an asset to not only the owners, but the community and the breed as well, why the heck cant the dog be assessed and then a decision made. If the dog is desexed and misses out on the opportunity to at least be assessed for it's working potential, shame on everyone. JMHO.

An exciting animal with an exciting potential could all be ruined because of a freaking desex contract. Normally I would also argue it to the end if it were some cross breed or unpapered pure breed but this is definitely what I consider exception circumstances.

[LisaCC]

Wow really people. Doesn't the saying 'exceptional circumstances' spring to any one else mind. If the dog goes to what sounds like a really good fitting home, and turns out to be an asset to not only the owners, but the community and the breed as well, why the heck cant the dog be assessed and then a decision made. If the dog is desexed and misses out on the opportunity to at least be assessed for it's working potential, shame on everyone. JMHO.

An exciting animal with an exciting potential could all be ruined because of a freaking desex contract. Normally I would also argue it to the end if it were some cross breed or unpapered pure breed but this is definitely what I consider exception circumstances.

Agree completely.

[persephone]

Wow really people. Doesn't the saying 'exceptional circumstances' spring to any one else mind. If the dog goes to what sounds like a really good fitting home, and turns out to be an asset to not only the owners, but the community and the breed as well, why the heck cant the dog be assessed and then a decision made. If the dog is desexed and misses out on the opportunity to at least be assessed for it's working potential, shame on everyone. JMHO.

An exciting animal with an exciting potential could all be ruined because of a freaking desex contract. Normally I would also argue it to the end if it were some cross breed or unpapered pure breed but this is definitely what I consider exception circumstances.

Agree completely.

here as well.

[kelpiecuddles]

Yes imagine if in some awful circumstances(death of owner or something to that effect) someones show dog/s ended up in the pound unknown to it's breed community and then out to rescue before their identity being discovered. I think it would again be a shame if people experienced and knowledgeable weren't given the opportunity to take that dog on entire so it could go back in to the breed community, even more so if it was from a breed with a fairly limited gene pool to start with. It's exceptional circumstances.

If this dog is able to be assessed by a conformation judge visiting from overseas with breed experience I think that would be wonderful. If approved as being of good quality he could be the basis for having the breed recognised by the ANKC. Just because the breed isn't currently recognised doesn't mean they never will be.

[casowner]

Wow really people. Doesn't the saying 'exceptional circumstances' spring to any one else mind. If the dog goes to what sounds like a really good fitting home, and turns out to be an asset to not only the owners, but the community and the breed as well, why the heck cant the dog be assessed and then a decision made. If the dog is desexed and misses out on the opportunity to at least be assessed for it's working potential, shame on everyone. JMHO.

An exciting animal with an exciting potential could all be ruined because of a freaking desex contract. Normally I would also argue it to the end if it were some cross breed or unpapered pure breed but this is definitely what I consider exception circumstances.

Agree completely.

Remembering in Australia this is an unregistered, unrecognised breed so its value as a stud is nothing if the breed is not recognised until the work has been done to go through the processes. Then there is the question of FCI registration and breed quality as a stud so absolutely this could be exciting once the groundwork is established and yes the dog needs to go to someone that understand and values them for their capabilities. To assess the dog as a potential stud or a breed Ambassador remembering this is Foundation stock the assessment ideally would be done by an International judge that can assess appropriately, breeds can be badly damaged or diluted if inferior stock is chosen as Foundation studs. I have no doubt this is not a decision that will be taken lightly and if the new owner chooses to go down that path it will be a long expensive road but one if done properly will be well worth the effort.

Specialised homes for specialised dogs are rare and in this case as I have said previously it is a stroke of good fortune for this dog that his current carer has sought out this Community to help find him the best home possible and it looks like that may have happened. I respect the OP for their dedication to the dog and wish them well and look forward to seeing the breed recognised and established here

Edited April 15, 2014 by casowner

[Dogsfevr]

Wow really people. Doesn't the saying 'exceptional circumstances' spring to any one else mind. If the dog goes to what sounds like a really good fitting home, and turns out to be an asset to not only the owners, but the community and the breed as well, why the heck cant the dog be assessed and then a decision made. If the dog is desexed and misses out on the opportunity to at least be assessed for it's working potential, shame on everyone. JMHO.

An exciting animal with an exciting potential could all be ruined because of a freaking desex contract. Normally I would also argue it to the end if it were some cross breed or unpapered pure breed but this is definitely what I consider exception circumstances.

So where do you draw the line on what is exceptional ,what makes this dog any more exceptional than the next dog .

So if more imports arrive of exceptional lines & rarity they should be given the same privelage ?? & who decides what is exceptional & what isn't ??

Lets look at the flip side if this dog didn't have its papers no one would have known what it was & it would have been spayed & most likely many of you would have walked past in on the street without a second thought

[Simply Grand]

Yes imagine if in some awful circumstances(death of owner or something to that effect) someones show dog/s ended up in the pound unknown to it's breed community and then out to rescue before their identity being discovered. I think it would again be a shame if people experienced and knowledgeable weren't given the opportunity to take that dog on entire so it could go back in to the breed community, even more so if it was from a breed with a fairly limited gene pool to start with. It's exceptional circumstances.

If this dog is able to be assessed by a conformation judge visiting from overseas with breed experience I think that would be wonderful. If approved as being of good quality he could be the basis for having the breed recognised by the ANKC. Just because the breed isn't currently recognised doesn't mean they never will be.

Is this what happened? Is Brightstar a reputable rescue with this unregistered breed's best interest at heart? Sorry Brightstar, not saying you are not, and maybe you have a long history with DOLers/rescuers, just asking the question and hoping that people will understand I am questioning, not accusing.