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carolineh1

Bondi Vet "sachi" Dog Attack Victim

63 posts in this topic

I watched this program last night, and based on the owners talking about their dog yapping at other dogs, I suspected that they weren't just attacked randomly while out on a walk. Unfortunately, when they were sitting in the waiting room and the dog was barking at everything in what some dogs would consider quite a confrontational manner, it didn't seem like they had learned much at all.

Some dogs just have a very low tolerance for that sort of rude 'in your face' behaviour. Two of our German Shepherds will not put up with rude dogs. They don't physically attack them, but they will snap and growl if boundaries continue to be pushed. It's why I don't take them to dog parks or areas likely to be frequented by people with dogs off leash. Too many dogs out there have bad manners, ignorant owners, and I know with the breed I own, my dogs are going to come off the bad guys regardless of who started things.

Even though it may seem like bashing of small dogs, one has to admit that there is a double-standard for dog behaviour. If your big dog even so much as looks at someone you get questions of whether it bites. However, people seem to think it's almost amusing when some small dog is going rabid at the end of its leash. I'm acutely aware of how much damage my three could cause if they attacked a person or dog. Our two bitches have fought in the past and it is terrifying, even though it was more bark than bite. However, this should not mean that bad behaviour from smaller dogs should be tolerated because they are less likely to cause serious injury.

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Mumsie   

I have two JRT's, when we go for a walk we know which other dogs are friendly and which to avoid, if we have do see a dog we haven't met before I will check the owners body language and their dogs body language before deciding whether to stop and talk. I pull my dogs leads tighter in to my sides and keep my dogs walking while talking calmly to the them to distract them from barking and leaping at the other dog/s. My 9 year old ignores other dogs unless he knows them and the two year is a rescue we have had for only a few months and therefore I am not yet sure of her behaviour although she does appear reactive. There are two blue cattle dogs that we cross the street away from and two huskies that we will change direction to avoid passing. I love all breeds of dogs and if walking by myself I will stop and ask to pat any dog if the dog is looking at me with "pat me eyes" and a dopey grin.

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I watched this program last night, and based on the owners talking about their dog yapping at other dogs, I suspected that they weren't just attacked randomly while out on a walk. Unfortunately, when they were sitting in the waiting room and the dog was barking at everything in what some dogs would consider quite a confrontational manner, it didn't seem like they had learned much at all.

Some dogs just have a very low tolerance for that sort of rude 'in your face' behaviour. Two of our German Shepherds will not put up with rude dogs. They don't physically attack them, but they will snap and growl if boundaries continue to be pushed. It's why I don't take them to dog parks or areas likely to be frequented by people with dogs off leash. Too many dogs out there have bad manners, ignorant owners, and I know with the breed I own, my dogs are going to come off the bad guys regardless of who started things.

Even though it may seem like bashing of small dogs, one has to admit that there is a double-standard for dog behaviour. If your big dog even so much as looks at someone you get questions of whether it bites. However, people seem to think it's almost amusing when some small dog is going rabid at the end of its leash. I'm acutely aware of how much damage my three could cause if they attacked a person or dog. Our two bitches have fought in the past and it is terrifying, even though it was more bark than bite. However, this should not mean that bad behaviour from smaller dogs should be tolerated because they are less likely to cause serious injury.

As for small dogs, it ALL depends on the owner of that small dog. I have two miniature Schnauzers and just because they are small, they are NOT allowed to behave in a rude manner at the dog park. The will happily play with dogs much larger than themselves and I allow them to if I can see the larger dog, or even dogs more their size that don't pose a threat. I have never mollycoddled my two, or their predecessors. They are dogs, and allowed to behave accordingly.

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There are definitely responsible small dog owners out there, just as there are irresponsible large dog owners out there (saw a husky roaming the streets the other day with no owner in sight while I was out walking one of mine :eek: ).

It just seems that there is a difference in attitude in regards to recognising and dealing with things like aggression in smaller dogs, than there is bigger dogs.

I shake my head when I see videos on Youtube of small dogs being deliberately fired up and provoked by their owners because getting a dog to snarl and react aggressively somehow becomes funny when the dog is only the size of a cat.

I feel for the dogs in these situations as owning a fear aggressive dog who can be quite vocal, I know how difficult it can be to get those sorts of issues under control. However, just because the dog is small and more easily controlled, doesn't mean that these issues should be swept under the rug, and this is something I see a lot with the 'average dog owner' (the kind of dog owner I am talking about doesn't post on DOL). They are dogs, and deserve to be treated like dogs.

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There are definitely responsible small dog owners out there, just as there are irresponsible large dog owners out there (saw a husky roaming the streets the other day with no owner in sight while I was out walking one of mine :eek: ).

It just seems that there is a difference in attitude in regards to recognising and dealing with things like aggression in smaller dogs, than there is bigger dogs.

I shake my head when I see videos on Youtube of small dogs being deliberately fired up and provoked by their owners because getting a dog to snarl and react aggressively somehow becomes funny when the dog is only the size of a cat.

I feel for the dogs in these situations as owning a fear aggressive dog who can be quite vocal, I know how difficult it can be to get those sorts of issues under control. However, just because the dog is small and more easily controlled, doesn't mean that these issues should be swept under the rug, and this is something I see a lot with the 'average dog owner' (the kind of dog owner I am talking about doesn't post on DOL). They are dogs, and deserve to be treated like dogs.

I agree. The owners are morons and quite frankly don't deserve to share their lives with an animal. Unfortunately, in the end, it's the dog who pays for their owner's idiocy.

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mita   

I love this video of well socialized small dogs and tibetan mastiff at a dog park. Little dogs just accept their Big Lug friend who so wants to play. Lot of good human work has gone into the breeding/raising/socializing dogs like this bunch:

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my big dog and other peoples dogs get attacked by the same small dog nearly every time it is at the dog park. Everyone is sick of it and when the little dog starts crying its owner blames all the other dogs and owners. Unfortunately it is not going to be long and the little dog is going to really get hurt if it keeps causing greif.it will just run at a dog and start fighting. The owner appears to be oblivious to what her dog is doing.

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my big dog and other peoples dogs get attacked by the same small dog nearly every time it is at the dog park. Everyone is sick of it and when the little dog starts crying its owner blames all the other dogs and owners. Unfortunately it is not going to be long and the little dog is going to really get hurt if it keeps causing greif.it will just run at a dog and start fighting. The owner appears to be oblivious to what her dog is doing.

That's exactly what I meant in my previous post. The idiot owner will make the dog pay for his/her (owner) stupidity.

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tdierikx   

As an owner of larger dogs, I am constantly aware of how they may be perceived by the general public...

However... I am not in the slightest bit amused when someone's smaller dog decides to use one of my dogs as a chew toy. My dogs will rarely react in kind when out in public, but they really shouldn't have to put up with that sort of thing at all. I usually stare straight at the owner of the offending dog and say, "it's not funny - how would you feel if my dog was doing to your dog what yours is currently doing to mine?". Usually the response is along the lines of "oh small dogs don't do as much damage as bigger dogs"... as if that somehow justifies my dog being bitten by their dog... *sigh*... my next words are not usually as polite as the first approach.

T.

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Yonjuro   

I have nothing against small dogs, I have previously owned a Maltese Terrier and my recently passed dog was a mini schnauzer - both amazing and wonderful dogs and they still frequent my dreams :(

I will freely admit that I previously did not see the big deal about little dogs barking and growling at bigger dogs and I was probably one of those ignorant owners that we talk about. Thankfully I am a great deal more understanding and knowledgeable about dogs than previously.

I can also appreciate that sometimes when a small dog owner laughs when their dog behaves poorly it is sometimes due to the owner feeling anxious, stressed or worried - a laugh doesn't always indicate humour or frivolity.

My dog is still a puppy 9.5 months and gets very excited when he sees a dog and is walked around the neighbourhood. I usually cross the road so as to not stress the other owners. If the other owner has a calm smaller dog and they show keenness to meet Ronin I will bring him over and kneel down to pat them both using the word 'gentle' softly to my boy.

There is no doubt a 24kg husky looks intimidating with ears forward and tail up. They can also be very vocal which is hard to read by many. This combined with his super excitement to meet people and dogs makes it a challenge in our training. After puppy school we employed a trainer who we used to see on a weekly basis for a few months and now fortnightly, so we are actively being educated and working hard on helping my boy be a good canine citizen.

So all that this waffle means, is that I can understand some peoples reactions to dogs both small and large. My job is to protect my own and the space around him, this protection includes not letting him retaliate and hurt a kamikaze small dog off lead. I have said this before but if a small dog attacks mine and gets hurt in the process, there is no doubt that I will get the blame because of my dog's size and appearance and possibly get declared dangerous.

Congrats to anyone that got through this post of mine :laugh:

Edited by Yonjuro

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OSoSwift   

I did :)

I owned Rottweilers when a lady in Perth got killed by one and three crosses in a market garden. I owned Dobermanns and people either loved them or were terrified by them - except for the brown on. We had a Stafford, yep you can imagine.

Now I have Whippets and to be honest I am far more hyper vigilant than with any of my previous dogs. This is purely because they are smaller, have thin skin and tear easily. Mine have required a few stitch ups when they were playing and one ran into another's tooth.

In general I am more wary of big dogs purely because they can do more damage to my dog, than a smaller one. That doesn't mean I don't worry about the small ones, I do. One snap from a JR sized dog can mean a vet visit for another stitch up.

I don't care what breed they are I am far more wary and protective due to the dogs I have now.

There is nothing nicer than seeing dogs playing and having fun. Unfortunately most people have no idea what their dog is saying regardless of size.

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Erny   

I saw parts of the program too. That small dog, if it wasn't already, will now most likely be a reactive dog. It suffered awful injuries and was obviously in a lot of pain. Its owner was also in a bad way. :(

I didn't see the show, so basing what I say on the OP's description of its content.

By the sounds of it, the small dog was an already reactive dog. For whatever reason and for the purpose of what I'm saying, that's irrelevant. It was reactive and threatening. It suffered the consequences of its reactions. (I'm not saying that's a good thing for the little dog - either for its physical state or its emotional state.)

It is not okay for any dog to attack another dog, no matter what size. It is not excusable for a big dog to attack a small dog because it was provoked or vice versa.

Disagree here. It is not good for any dog to engage in any act of aggression, be it offensive or defensive. Aggression is not an appetitive emotion. And learning aggression is what we good dog-owners want our dogs to completely avoid. BUT, it is excusable for a dog to act out in defence of a threat. To not accept that is to suggest that any animal (including humans) who aggresses in the act of self-defence is guilty.

Having said that, I agree that dogs .... and probably even more over, humans, for that matter, should be raised to learn a good degree of tolerance.

Owners of big dogs need to be very wary because their dogs can do so much damage. That doesn't mean that it is okay for smaller dogs to be aggressive either. Some smaller dogs suffer from fear aggression because of past frightening experiences with big dogs or because they feel that their owners are not capable of protecting them.

True. And I can tell you first hand that some bigger dogs suffer from fear aggression because of past frightening experiences from little dogs. So really, discussion really shouldn't contain reference to big or small, but merely to "dogs". They all have dog-brains. They should all be treated and regarded as the same, with no reference to size as bearing any difference.

Edited by Erny

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Diva   

As an owner of larger dogs, I am constantly aware of how they may be perceived by the general public...

However... I am not in the slightest bit amused when someone's smaller dog decides to use one of my dogs as a chew toy. My dogs will rarely react in kind when out in public, but they really shouldn't have to put up with that sort of thing at all.

I agree. I used to worry about my large dogs injuring a small one, but the day I came home with my girl bleeding from bites to the hock from three loose aggro jrts was the day I stopped worrying about my dogs hurting those who attacked them, no matter what their size. I do my utmost to protect my dogs, but if others let theirs roam and attack and there are too many for me to deter I no longer try and protect the attacker even if they are much smaller. Now I am much more relaxed on walks and so are my dogs, funnily enough the dogs that like to attack seem to be thinking twice about it too, lol.

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mita   

I once spoke to a man in charge of household deliveries from a big supermarket. He was a dog lover himself (owned blue heelers). He told me, from the deliverers experience, which were the dogs most likely to bite them when they went into people's yards. He said it tended not to be the big dogs... they just stood & watched the men come and go. He said when they got bitten, it tended to be a small dog. And he told me the breed that stood out. My lips are sealed because there's more factors than just breed label alone :)

I own small dogs, but they're buddhists. :) :)

Edited by mita

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I was walking my two large dogs up a deserted road yesterday and got rushed by a JRT. My dogs are used to small annoying yappy dogs so ignored it. I yelled at it and it ran back down the driveway it had come from. I always think what if my dogs were reactive back? It would be very different than two calm large dogs ignoring a very aggressive small dog who was persistent and took a while to go away. People need to control their dogs no matter the size and not make excuses based on breed, size, age or history. Bottom line if you have to make excuses because you can't control your dog's behaviour then you stop taking it to those places until you can control it. That simple really.

Edited by mixeduppup

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cavNrott   

I usually yell SIT if a loose dog runs up to us when I'm walking mine. It's amazing how often this works and the dog obediently sits.

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Snook   

I usually yell SIT if a loose dog runs up to us when I'm walking mine. It's amazing how often this works and the dog obediently sits.

I must have tried that at least half a dozen times and not once has it worked for me. The other dog has either been too worked up to listen or allowed off leash before it's had any training (said by the owner when they finally managed to catch him). I've also tried throwing treats and that has never worked either. :laugh:

Edited by Sir Snook le Faux

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I usually yell SIT if a loose dog runs up to us when I'm walking mine. It's amazing how often this works and the dog obediently sits.

I yell incoherent gibberish until it leaves. :laugh:

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If I think it's likely to hurt my dogs I will yell get away in a deep, loud voice (lost my voice instantly last time I did it). It's given them cause to be wary of the crazy lady and has made them keep back long enough for owners to grab so far. If they kept coming then I'd kick them as hard as I could.

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Snook   

I've found body blocking to be the most successful strategy so far. I'm not yelling so I'm not upsetting Justice more than he already is but I'm still pretty successful at stopping the other dog from getting to him. I'm too uncoordinated to kick I think. I'd probably end up on my arse.. lol. With one small dog intent on attacking Justice, while his owner yelled out that his off leash dog didn't like other dogs and slowly walked over to retrieve him, I used a combination of body blocking and bending over and physically shoving the dog backwards with my hand each time it launched at Justice. It only got past me once and nearly ended up in Justice's mouth but I managed to grab hold of him at the last second so that Justice got my arm instead of the other dog's head. Thank goodness Justice has great bite inhibition and wasn't worked up so he pulled away the second his teeth hit my skin.

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