twodoggies2001 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Great example of a wonderful family pet. Why are people acting so freaked out? The owners obviously know their dog well and were supervising the play. My eldest daughter would also play with my Flattie Ralph when she was a toddler. He was an unfailingly gentle dog. Jasper is also a wonderful Flattie, but I wouldn't let him play with a small child like that as he can be a bit crazy at times. Sure, what a wonderful dog BUT the parents were not as close as the baby was to the dog. Only a split second needed for the dog to react and that baby's face could have been torn. There is a tolerance point and I sure wouldn't want to find it in such a situation. Personally, I think the parents are not acting responsible to either the baby or to the dog. I can see in the future, that this baby will try to get away with pestering this dog and be expected to give in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 If a person comes up to you while you're eating and repeatedly pokes you and takes your fork and sits inches from you you would be well within your rights to give them a shove. I expect my dog to get basic respect & personal space, and would like to think any children, should we have any, would be taught the same courtesy. All it would take would be one misplaced finger, that's a big powerful dog chewing hard on a bone. All else aside the risk is way higher than I'd be willing to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 If a person comes up to you while you're eating and repeatedly pokes you and takes your fork and sits inches from you you would be well within your rights to give them a shove. I expect my dog to get basic respect & personal space, and would like to think any children, should we have any, would be taught the same courtesy. All it would take would be one misplaced finger, that's a big powerful dog chewing hard on a bone. All else aside the risk is way higher than I'd be willing to take. Yes, this exactly. My golden has a wonderfully gentle temperament and I have no doubt he'll make a great family pet but there is no way on earth I would put my dog and baby in this situation. Why would you? Dogs also deserve space and respect. Why teach your child that pestering the dog is OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Great example of a wonderful family pet. Why are people acting so freaked out? The owners obviously know their dog well and were supervising the play. My eldest daughter would also play with my Flattie Ralph when she was a toddler. He was an unfailingly gentle dog. Jasper is also a wonderful Flattie, but I wouldn't let him play with a small child like that as he can be a bit crazy at times. Dogs will not always behave the same way for their whole lives (studies have shown temperament tests done on dogs in shelters can be vastly different even 24 hours apart!). Their behaviour can be modified by experience, environment or their own physical wellbeing. This is clearly a very lovely dog and didn't seem too fussed by the baby at all, I agree. But let's say the parents allow this to happen every day for a year. Will the dog be so patient then? It is entirely conceivable that over a period of time of this happening regularly the dog will start to have enough and tell the child to piss off. When that happens is when you hear 'he just turned, it came out of the blue...'. Not to mention that the child is putting it's hand right inside the dogs mouth as it's biting down on the bone. Tiny soft hands could be injured in a second, just accidentally. Edited December 30, 2014 by melzawelza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Some people don't deserve children. The dog obviously has an amazing temperament but what happens when the kid tries to do the same with a visiting dog or when the family is out visiting? Why put your child at risk? Why not teach children how to behave around dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Great example of a wonderful family pet. Why are people acting so freaked out? The owners obviously know their dog well and were supervising the play. My eldest daughter would also play with my Flattie Ralph when she was a toddler. He was an unfailingly gentle dog. Jasper is also a wonderful Flattie, but I wouldn't let him play with a small child like that as he can be a bit crazy at times. From the person who posted the video (I have only quoted one paragraph). I think it is telling that a professional doesn't think it is a good idea. Although I disagreed with those visitors' comments, based on those comments, I contacted the dog's trainer about the video and about the nature of the interaction shown in the video, as the trainer is specifically familiar with our dog's training and temperament. In short, based on her specific experience with our dog and other dogs, the trainer agreed with me that it's unlikely that the dog would harm the baby -- and in her opinion, the dog was not exhibiting any signs of stress or irritation in the video that would lead her to believe that the baby was at any risk of harm during that interaction. That said, she cautioned that a dog's "resource guarding" instinct cannot be 100% bred or trained away, and that a dog's tolerance for someone taking its resources can change over time as the dog develops and ages. Because of that, she cautioned that just because the dog is tolerant of such behavior now does not mean that he'll be so tolerant of such behavior in the coming months. So, particularly while the baby is so young, the trainer conservatively recommended against allowing the baby to take anything from the dog's mouth. Moreover, we intend to follow that recommendation -- so rest assured, we will not allow the baby to interact with the dog again in the way that's shown in this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Great example of a wonderful family pet. Why are people acting so freaked out? The owners obviously know their dog well and were supervising the play. My eldest daughter would also play with my Flattie Ralph when she was a toddler. He was an unfailingly gentle dog. Jasper is also a wonderful Flattie, but I wouldn't let him play with a small child like that as he can be a bit crazy at times. Just because the dog - so far - will put up with that doesn't mean it should have to AND that sort of behaviour from the child has the potential to annoy the dog over time to the point it does react. Then we hear "that came from nowhere", "we have never seen him do that before". The dog is a saint I agree, but the child is not being taught respect for the dog and its space, the child is not being taught how to behave around dogs in general and in a second it could change, for the worst. If someone got in my face like that and tried to take my food they would get stabbed with a fork. Edited December 30, 2014 by OSoSwift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 There was a video doing the rounds of a little child in the dog's donut bed and the dog dragging and shaking the bed and trying to get into with with the child. The parents were laughing themselves silly including at one stage when the dog tipped the bed up and the child toppled over ..... onto his/her head The comments were highly condemnatory, much the same as those in this thread, thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 If someone got in my face like that and tried to take my food they would get stabbed with a fork. Amen, sistah. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Just to add to what the above posters have added- If the dog tolerates it for 30 repetitions and then on the 31st does not and nips the child and this results in the immediate removal of the child (which it normally would) this can dramatically lower the dogs threshold in the future- it's not just as simple as going back to where you were before, the dog learns a new, extremely effective coping strategy in that moment and this is then likely to be repeated at other times. Just because a dog can or will put up with something doesn't mean they should have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 If someone got in my face like that and tried to take my food they would get stabbed with a fork. Amen, sistah. :laugh: I went to boarding school, if you snoozed you lost and you learnt if you didn't want to lose it you would do what it takes to protect it. Ask anyone who has tried to take my food, they never do it twice :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOLO Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I agree that teaching a child that it could do this with ANY dog would be a horrendous mistake, but that is really just speculation as we have no idea what the parents are teaching the child, whether this was a once off, etc. What this debate highlights is the great divergence in peoples' definitions of their "wonderful family pet." Everybody is zeroing in on the fact that the Baby is right next to the dog, and the dog is playing with a bone. But the fact is that if you have children, and you have "wonderful family pets" the opportunities for interaction are many. That dog is a wonderful family pet, clearly it has demonstrated its trustworthiness, and the parents would feel comfortable having it around the family home. I've had a few wonderful dogs, but only one did I trust near a toddler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 No, everyone is zeroing on the fact that the baby is putting its fingers in the dog's mouth and is trying (and succeeding) to grab the bone from its mouth. It's got nothing to do with if the dog is a good family pet or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Some people shouldn't have animals or kids! Good dog or not - the kid learns it can do it with one dog and will think it can do it with all dogs (some of which, may not be so obliging having a kids hands in their mouth while eating).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Kids are not good at generalising. At that sort of age they cannot think oh my dog is good, but that one may not be, they think dog, ooohhh get in its face. My dogs are used to kids and have been brought up with kids. Sometimes the kids went too far and got pulled up by me, never the dogs. However I do no think the dogs should have to put up with having the crap annoyed out of them just because they are good with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Dogs Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I could only get through the first 10 seconds.... absolute stupidity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Well, that was quite disturbing to watch, and this is how I see it... Beautiful dog - tick Ignorant owner - cross Owner asked a professional trainers opinion and doesn't allow this to happen anymore - tick Beautiful dog - tick :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley James Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Quite simply why set up the dog to fail. One small nip and it's all the dogs fault. When in fact that's so far from the truth. Yes beautifully tempered dog but everyone and everything has its breaking point. And it's not as if the child was being gentle. I'd be pretty peeved if ANYONE did that to any of my dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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