sheena Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Some one I know has just had to rehome her Border Collie from Queensland to Tasmania as the vet suggested that the hot climate was affecting her, with what sounds like Border Collie Collapse & that she would do much better in a cooler climate. A very hard decision to make. I am not sure what state she was bred in, but that raises my question. If looking for a BC pup, would it be wise to choose from a climate similar to your own, as well as looking into seeing if BCC is present in the breeding. ie...is it genetic ?? IF climate can have an affect on things like BCC, how risky would it be to get a pup from a bitch that was bred overseas in Europe...coming from the snow to NSW. And NO ....I am not looking to getting another pup ATM, but just doing my homework for maybe a few years down the track. One can never start too early :laugh: ATM I am very happy with my Queensland bred BC's :) Edited January 2, 2015 by sheena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I doubt the climate will make any difference if it has BC collapse then its more to do with over doing it for that set dog,we use to board a BC that had it & its owner found it worse in winter because they exercised more before realizing the condition.We would board the dog mid summer in extreme heat & never an issue because its routine was structured more here than at home with kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Agree lots of dogs in the Northern Hemisphere still have issues with BC collapse even in winter. There is some correlation to the heat but greater correlation to humidity. I find in the real extreme heat Kenz does seem to cope better but then obviously we are doing much less (as any normal pet owner would be off their mind anyway to exercise dogs in extreme heat) and there is a natural inclination for the dog to be less fired up. ETA. I would certainly be asking breeders regarding the potential for dogs with BCC in their lines. While they don't have a test for the condition there is definitely evidence to suggest its genetically inherited. All breeders can do at this stage is to be aware and mindful of the condition. Edited January 2, 2015 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Pretty sure Ness knows more about it than anyone http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickelson/lab/EIC/bordercollieEIC/home.html It's more related to exercise than air temperature. I read somewhere that it is related to the inability to remove heat from the muscles ie some component of the muscle and blood supply system is missing (genetic) - and that's the bit that facilitates heat removal from exercise. Just not sure how to google what I vaguely remember about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) EIC has a genetic marker and there is a test available for Border Collies. I have previously has this genetic test done. That said I am unsure of the code of inheritance Edited January 2, 2015 by Starkehre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Information from the University of Minnesota which says that the factors which lead to a Border Collie. affected with this disorder, collapsing on a given day haven't been determined...includes excitement, heat, intensity of exercise. But it's typical after onset of exercise. http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickelson/lab/EIC/bordercollieEIC/home.html Edited January 2, 2015 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Nope there is not test for the condition in BCs. There is a test for a similar condition in labs etc but its not the same gene as all the BCs have proven to be negative to the test. My girl had blood taken as part of the study and submitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaznHotAussies Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Is this the same as the one that can occur in Old English Sheepdogs? My friend's OES collapsed at the dog park when she was playing with another dog, had a night on fluids & was back to normal. http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org/Health/EIC.php http://www.animalgenetics.us/Canine/Genetic_Disease/EIC.asp Sounds like it's preventable as long as you know about it. And if it is caused by the muscle's difficulty in removing heat just the cooler climate alone may not be enough & over-exercise may trigger another attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Some dogs seem to be more preventable then others. I know with mine short of locking her up for the rest of her life and never doing anything again I can only just keep ahead of her having a serious episode. She still can tip the edge into a bad collapse even when I am super careful and watching for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaznHotAussies Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Gee, this actually sounds very similar to PSSM in horses different levels of being affected & the management things, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I know nothing about the issue mentioned but tassie gets pretty hot sometimes. It's not all snow and mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 It was a big decision for her to make on the advice of the vet..to re-home her BC from Queensland to Tassie...so I hope it works out for the poor dog Is it something that shows up early in a dog's life or can it rear it's ugly head at any time. I have to be very vigilent with my girl, especially on hot days, as she always has to hold something in her mouth, when she is playing, rounding something up or fighting a thunder storm. It can either be something big like a toy or if that's not around, she will hold a leaf or a blade of grass in her mouth, just like a cigarette paper. She does this even when she is swimming. If I let her go on too long, she starts to salvinate something dreadful & gets very very thirsty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Kenz her had first episode around 13-14 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Kenz her had first episode around 13-14 months. Very worrying for you & it must have come as a big shock to you, or did you suspect something wasn't quite right earlier on ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I think possibly but I can't remember how. I remember coming back from a walk and her having crashed and a friend on FB said she it sounds like BC collapse. Edited January 3, 2015 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I know nothing about the issue mentioned but tassie gets pretty hot sometimes. It's not all snow and mountains. Over 31 today! Doesn't sound too bad if you're used to it, but we've been sitting in the low 20's for all of summer. #melting I'd never heard of this with border collies before this thread - it must be so stressful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I had a dog many years ago suffering from BC collapse. I first detected it in about 2003 with my girl. At the time, not a lot was known about it and some breeders denied that it even existed despite evidence showing up on it in Canada and USA in Border Collies. Jemma is from completely different bloodlines to what I have now. It came on when she was about 18 months old and got worse as she got older. Time of day or time of year did not make a difference. I did find that keeping the weight off her did make a difference and also controlling her activity and stress levels did help in limiting occurrances. She was bred in Qld and both her parents lived in Qld. I did find also when it came to exercise, I used to exercise her through water rather walking. I always carried plenty of water and a bucket with me to drench her with if I was out and she was going to suffer an episode. I first saw the condition around 2002 with a friend's working border collie. Peter's dog was complete working line - no show lines. When he would trial her in 3 sheep - he would leave a 20 ltr bucket by the gate to drench her in. She would get fixated on the sheep and not necessarily work or run her self into the ground, but would get herself worked up and start to induce a collapse. She was not a long coated bitch so cannot attribute coat length/thickness as a contributing cause. She would also induce a collapse if she got worked up or stressed. She was a very willing to please dog and would work herself up doing her tricks. The first thing I noticed was her tounge would go a dark purplish/pink before a collapse episode would come on. I also noticed that if she was "allowed" to have one collapse, then if you were not careful more could follow without as much stress. Like as if the toxins had not completely left her system from the first one. Jemma died in 2009 at only just 8 years old. She had a large growth in her abdomen. Unfortunately she died before they were calling for blood samples to determine a DNA test. Edited January 3, 2015 by Mystiqview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Very informative,interesting & honest post Mystiqview. I can't thank you for sharing it☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I should add, I could control the condition somewhat by learning what would trigger an episode and either stop before one came on, quiet her and cool her down when one did. Also really learning her behaviours really helped to know when something was off. At the time, there was not much known about the condition in Bcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Very interesting...thanks. The only dog I have known personally, was a rescue BC being used on a farm & it used to collapse. That was many years ago & the owners thought it had a bad heart but I doubt if BCC was known of back then. So the offspring from a bitch from Europe & raised in a hot humid climate, would fare no worse than a locally bred dog?? The only thing I can think of is maybe the length & thickness of the coat I guess, what I am trying to say, is ...is tolerance to heat & humidity a genetic thing. I know it can be in cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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