Neighbours Reactive Rescue Dog

[kelp]

... escaped and attacked my on-leash dogs.

My two dogs were desexed last thursday. They were getting a bit restless at our place, so today, for the first time since their operation, we took the dogs out for a short walk up and down the street. The vet said short on-leash walks would be ok, but not to spend time playing with other dogs in case their stitches got strained.

We have a few neighbours with dogs. Some are good and some are dreadful. Today, we walked, really reeally slowly so as to not to hurt our recovering dogs. We have walked past this neighbour's house with our dogs many times . I have also stood talking with various neighbours all along the street, including outside this house. This neighbour's dog is a rescue rotty/german shepherd//staffy/something else who is very very shy to the point it does not want to go on walks or do much except sit on their back deck. The neighbours some time ago mentioned that they were disappointed with the rescue process : They were unaware of the anxiety of this dog, they were unable to coax him to go for walks, it had guardingissues and barks cnstantly. t is ok with people and some dogs it knows. it also sleeps with their cat and rounds their chickens up. that said, as our dogs are little, the dogs were not introduced.

As we were slowly walking past their house, i noticed it was barking as usual on the deck at the back of the house, but did not think much of it. But as we we walked past, the front door was opened. The dog then pushed open screen door, and it bolted down to our dogs. I picked my dog up in time, but my husbnad was not so quick and the attacking dog got three bites into our other dog. it happened so quickly!!!

i was very scared as the dog was leaping with all four paws onto our backs as we turned around to protect our little dogs from the bigger dog. i thought we would all be bitten for sure. my child and his freinds were also shocked to the point they were frozen in place unable to move out of the way.

the neighbour's adult daughter and her dad came tearing out and caught their dog. our bitten dog was literally crying all the way home. (he didnt have any punture wounds, but he is holding his paw gingerly. we will take him to the vet.

On top of that, our bitten dog is going through a sensitive phase, his previous owner was too ill to look after him, so we were able to give him a new home (arranged through his breeder). he already suffered anxiety before the attack, and we were working with a behaviourist on ways to help him be less anxious.

I am still really disturbed about what happened. I am desparately concerned about our dog's confidence and have yet to see how he will respond to other dogs after this. we have spent a considerable amount of time and money with a behaviour modification program which was aimed to make the dog more independent and less a velcro dog. he has been sitting on my lap all evening now.

the neighbours are very decent but i am a little miffed theyhave not apologised for their dog's behaviour. Their dog gets stirred up by everything, including another neighbour's dogs (-as an aside, these other neighbour's dogs also bark constantly, like a dog choir. these other neighbours are absolutely hopeless with their dogs and do not treat them well, much less train or even walk them).

what can we expect to happen next? should we really be expected to tippy-toe around that part of our street? Lastly, why on earth do rescue places allow such dogs to be rehomed? all it does is just propgate the reactivity down the chain.

seariously pissed off.

[OSoSwift]

Report the attack to the rangers, take your dog to the vet and get a report, a copy of which goes to the neighbours.

No you shouldn't have to tiptoe around, people should be responsible and it is really upsetting and frustrating when they are not and innocent people and dogs are traumatised ot injured.

Report it and don't let it drop. The very least your neighbours could do is apologise and I think that dog sounds like a very good candidate for euthansia, especially if he stays there.

[VizslaMomma]

Report the attack to the rangers, take your dog to the vet and get a report, a copy of which goes to the neighbours.

No you shouldn't have to tiptoe around, people should be responsible and it is really upsetting and frustrating when they are not and innocent people and dogs are traumatised ot injured.

Report it and don't let it drop. The very least your neighbours could do is apologise and I think that dog sounds like a very good candidate for euthansia, especially if he stays there.

Sound advice.

I am so sorry to read of this horrible incident.

Best Wishes.

[BC Crazy]

Excellent post OSS....

I would be taking OSS's advice.

So sorry about this horrible incident. It always happens so quickly & it's terribly frightening for both for you & your dogs to be set upon like that. Very dangerous actually.

Hope everyone is Ok & your dog bounces back from this as well.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Definitely report the attack, next time it could be far worse.

It could be a child or an elderly person walking a dog (not that children should be walking dogs unsupervised but only yesterday I saw two young children out on their own with a small dog) and they will come off far worse than you.

This is so irresponsible of the owners - doesn't matter where the dog has come from - breeder or rescue, they KNOW that it has issues so they must take full responsibility for taking much more care to ensure the dog does not get access to any other dogs.

Personally I strongly disagree with pounds/rescues placing dogs that they know to be dog aggressive or those who don't temperament test dogs before rehoming (Pound Rounds is one of those groups). People often don't get it or just don't listen to the warnings and then something terrible happens and others and their pets suffer.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

.....gremlins

Edited January 11, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

more gremlins

Edited January 11, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad

[persephone]

definitely REPORT .... calmly and with facts ....

You had witnesses/and should have a detailed vet report - do not let vet say ..Oh yeah , looks a bit sore .....

Oh ..and take dogs out again ASAP - drive them somewhere and wander around a park or something for 10 minutes :) Let them have a good sniff session , and an explore :)

A point to think on :

walking VERY slowly - noticeably slower than normal - may be interpreted to other dogs as a dog either being ill/injured, or perhaps as a dog 'sussing things out' ..and being intrusive .Either way , a dog behaving a bit abnormally is more prone to being misinterpreted/attacked, IMO.

[kelp]

thanks for these views. your support is truly appreciated. I am still really upset, but the dogs and children seem ok. we went for a different walk today, and came across a little westie X who was very tail-waggy and polite. our dogs wagged back, and seemd generally happy to see this other little dog. As they were in post-op recovery period, and that i had never seen this dog before, we didnt let them get too close.

persephone,

the slowness of our walk, and us stressing the reactive dog is something i feel really bad about. But, On the otherhand, I have stood at the same spot talking with the neighbours . The only difference this time was that the dog managed to find his way out of his otherwise secure property. i wonder if the main door had originally been opened by them to ask us to move faster (and we would have been happy to do so). The screen door is also usually locked, as a default. We have visited reasonably regularly, in the past. :) But this time, their daughter was visiting, and she might not have been fully aware of the dog situation, as she moved out before this aggro dog came on the scene and their previous dog had been placid. Their dog has been also extremely reluctant to go beyond its back fence which is set back a way from the road, so the fact that it came out beyond its comfort boundary, onto the street and down the road a bit was also a surprise.

It is a big big shame to have to talk to the neighbours about this. These neighbours are otherwise great, and i had always considered them to be quite responsible dogwise (unlike their nextdoor neighbours whose dogs were also going bonkers at the time and i wonder if this stirred things up). The two sets of dogs wind eachother up, but the good neighbours take steps to hush their dog but the dreadful neighbours just do not care. In fact, the dreadful owner said they liked her dogs to bark at everything, as it meant they were scaring off possible would-intruders and it was just too bad for us neighbours trying to sleep. Our dogs were caught in the crossfire between this barking war. As an aside, it is impossible to get a complaint about barking dogs sustained here.

I do wonder why some rescue people think all dogs are inherently rescuable. Do they not realise that a dog attacking another dog has the potential to make the victim dog itself reactive and aggressive? i wonder if i should also report this dog to the rescue they got it from... and yes, i am more cross at the rescue than the neighbours that this dog was passed on as safe to home.

once we get the vet report, which they are happy to do, we will talk to the neighbours. We havent heard their dog since yesterday, they may have even taken steps themselves to deal with the dog.

[kelp]

ps, not that i expect this to happen again, but what does one actually do when a big barrel-shaped dog is jumping on your back?

do you shout at it? won't this make everything worse?

[tdierikx]

The general rule when a dog is attacking you is to make yourself as small a target as possible and don't offer any major resisitance, as this could aggravate the attacking dog into attempting to do even more damage.

That said - sometimes you may need to fight back in certain circumstances - and in that case, aim for the chest area with as hard a kick as you can, preferably with your heel... that is the most vulnerable spot.

T.

[Staffyluv]

I agree with everyone else - report it.

Not saying it would work with every dog but so far for me, when a dog is running toward me and my dog - I step in front of my dog and growl, very loudly, 'No' and or 'Get Away' - also throwing my arms up. This has stopped the few that we have encountered in their tracks - but it probably wouldn't stop a dog intent on attacking.

I hope your little ones are OK and continue to recover from their surgery and this incident.

[hankdog]

I'm sorry this happened. I am in your neighbours situation and have ended up with a reactive dog with no knowledge of exactly what that meant.

Here's what it means if they choose to keep the dog. The dog must be between two gates at all times, so if he's inside then the front garden needs to be gated. He shouldn't be left in a backyard, he's in a run in the backyard or inside. When he's walked he should be double leashed. He should be under the eye of a trainer and be receiving professional help. Once you know your dog is reactive you need backup plans all the time. If they choose to take the risk then they accept the extra responsibility.

When we were recently attacked whilst out recently I immeadiately went around to the house from whence the off leash dog had come but this was contrary to legal opinion. So your neighbours could be taking a cautious legal- advised approach which is to me contrary to the General good human being approach.

Get a vet report and maybe make the first approach either via a ranger report or discuss with them depending on how confident you are and your relationship with them. I definitely think something should be done or said to prevent worse happening down the line.

[Dame Aussie]

Report the attack to the rangers, take your dog to the vet and get a report, a copy of which goes to the neighbours.

No you shouldn't have to tiptoe around, people should be responsible and it is really upsetting and frustrating when they are not and innocent people and dogs are traumatised ot injured.

Report it and don't let it drop. The very least your neighbours could do is apologise and I think that dog sounds like a very good candidate for euthansia, especially if he stays there.

This. No apology?? I'd be knocking their bloody door down.

[cavNrott]

I hope you took your dog to the vet to be thoroughly checked after she was bitten by this dog. Present the bill to the attacking dog's owner. That they didn't even offer you an apology says a lot about them.

You should not feel bad about walking at a slow pace. You are not at fault in any way. We should be able to walk at whatever pace we choose with our dogs without being attacked by escaping dogs.

I hope you took the very sound advice offered by OSoSwift. The attacking dog needs to be reported, you might save other people and their dogs from experiencing such a frightening attack if this dog gets loose again.

[Scarlet]

As you are already working with a behaviourist; talk to them about the attack and any steps you can take to minimise any adverse reactions.

Best wishes for a quick recovery for your dogs

[kelp]

thnks again for your well wishes.

quick update..vet checked dog.. no obvious puncture wounds but she told us to keep an eye out for future discomfort. She examined his paw which i thought was tender: it is also ok.. all the places where the dog's mouth bit were checked (rump and side of tummy) and were ok. his wound is also ok, so he is physically on the mend. report shows this. we have follow up appointment in another weeks time to see how his emotional state is.

We went for a different walk this afternoon and passed by two medium dogs, border collie and heeler cross (all leashed). both were dogs we had not met before. Our bitten became very worried, and started barking at them, using the strangled bark voice, the same noise he used yesterday evening. He seemed ok with the small dogs at the vet's though, just watching them between our legs. it is tricky to see how he is gping to react as he is still not healed enough to play off leash. The behaviourist said this afternoon to wait till he is more physically resilliant, and not to rush things.. It is ok to try to arrange a few pass-by encounters with dogs he knows in a day or so. .

He did spend some time chewing a bone this afternoon on the grass, without being velcro'd to me, plus he had a snooze on the carpet (not on my lap)this evening. he was also happy to move away and move away to sniff the cat.

[hankdog]

That's good he's all physically fine. I wouldn't Rush it, he's had a tricky few weeks with his op and this. Let him take it at his own pace and I would make sure the next few dog encounters are positive, a second bad encounter might seal his impression of others as negative. The last thing you want is a dog reactive dog. Once he is healed can you set him up with some good calm play dates with a variety of shapes and sizes so he doesn't start to think all big dogs or all black dogs or whatever he comes up with are bad?

If you pop into the reactive dogs thread in the training section you will read about "LAT" which is something you could start training him with now.

I think any training builds confidence but I particularly think clicker training and 101 things to do with a box are excellent for this. If the box is placed away from you the first few days you can just reward for taking those steps away from you to touch the box. With a fearful dog those steps away are very important. With my dog I am also working on distance commands, so just trying to do all his tricks but at a distance from me, harder than you'd think with an under confident dog.

ETA. Try ensure you are not rewarding any unwanted behaviours. If he's barking or reacting in anyway either distract him by asking for an incompatible behaviour, sit and look at you or if he knows "uh huh" or "leave it" then tell him that. Try not to pick up or cuddle or do anything that encourages the unwanted behaviour.

He could be thinking that in scene one he didn't bark and he got attacked but now when he is barking the other dog goes away and he doesn't get attacked. In his mind barking is therefor a good plan. Really smart thinking but not something you want to encourage.

Edited January 12, 2015 by hankdog

[sas]

Sorry to hear what happened.

Sadly some rescues have a save all mentality. I do not, I only re-home dogs safe with the general public and dogs, I make no apologies for enthanising dogs who don't meet the grade. Admittedly sometimes dogs are perfectly fine in care and then when they go to a new environment they can change, had a couple in 10 years but thankfully don't see it often, our dogs get assessed by a Behaviourist before they go.

[OSoSwift]

Sorry to hear what happened.

Sadly some rescues have a save all mentality. I do not, I only re-home dogs safe with the general public and dogs, I make no apologies for enthanising dogs who don't meet the grade. Admittedly sometimes dogs are perfectly fine in care and then when they go to a new environment they can change, had a couple in 10 years but thankfully don't see it often, our dogs get assessed by a Behaviourist before they go.

Yes I agree, you shouldn't save them all just to save them all.

I know of a rescue Dobe that had large temperament issues. The Rescue worked witha behaiouist for 12 months on this girl and she was going fantastically. They found a very dog/large dog/Dobe savy person prepared to take her on knowing her full history. They went to her yard and when the gate opened the dog flew the person who came to look at her, no warning and bite her quite badly on the thigh, she was euthed. It goes to show no matter how much work you put ina dn how hard you try some just should not be rehomed