Mjosa Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I agree with what Cowanbree said, start with a dog not a bitch. I have had my breed for over 30 years, if someone contacts me for a bitch puppy, especially these days with them becoming too popular, I immediately tell them that the bitch will be on limited register and has to be desexed, usually I do not hear back from them. I will not sell a bitch puppy entire now only to people I know and trust, I would be open to selling a male in co ownership for someone to get a start, but never ever a bitch until they have proven to me that they are trustworthy and genuinely are interested in my breed for all the right reasons, then the bitch also goes in co ownership, in this way I have a say on when she can be mated and to whom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconRange Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Would you consider asking for a male pup on mains so that you can show him, stay in contact with the breeder, get a feel for the showing realm, and develop contacts within your breed whilst doing so? This may build a greater deal of trust between you and other breeders, and enable you to find a mains registered female sometime down the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I would go the male route first. There are many mnay people who talk the talk but when it comes down to it they do not keep up their end of the bargain and suddenly their is a bitch pumping out puppies etc. You need to become known and trustworthy. I would not talk about breeding. Just because you buy a bitch with potential does not mean she will be good enough to breed from once she is an adult. If that happens what will you do? keep her and desex her, rehome or breed anyway? these are the sorts of things you need to think about and the breeder will want to know, over time and building a relationship. I suggest building a relationship witha breeder/s well before you are wanting a puppy, a good 12 months would be required BEFORE you get a pup, bu the longer the better. I am cynical and to be perfectly honest I would not believe I could trust someone unless they showed it over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Might be better to not mention breeding at all but say you want to show. You will probably have to get a pup on co-ownership. In a couple of years time if the bitch is nice then you can think about breeding. You are sort of putting the cart before the horse a bit asking for a puppy to breed with. I've got 2 bitches on mains register and wouldn't breed with either of them. Yes to this. This is how my sister 'broke into' breeding. She did all her studies, passed her exams and then asked a breeder who had helped mentor her through the paperwork if she would be willing to let her co-own a bitch. She showed her for 3.5 years, then the breeder wanted to breed the bitch. Sis took care of everything and as a reward, was asked if she'd like a show quality pup from the litter for her very own. She put in years of hard work not just paper educating but getting to know the breeders and judges, taking care of a dog that could be removed from her at any time if Sis didn't prove her stuff. Breeding is a lifetime thing, you've got to be prepared to put in the hard yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Might be better to not mention breeding at all but say you want to show. You will probably have to get a pup on co-ownership. In a couple of years time if the bitch is nice then you can think about breeding. You are sort of putting the cart before the horse a bit asking for a puppy to breed with. I've got 2 bitches on mains register and wouldn't breed with either of them. Yes to this. This is how my sister 'broke into' breeding. She did all her studies, passed her exams and then asked a breeder who had helped mentor her through the paperwork if she would be willing to let her co-own a bitch. She showed her for 3.5 years, then the breeder wanted to breed the bitch. Sis took care of everything and as a reward, was asked if she'd like a show quality pup from the litter for her very own. She put in years of hard work not just paper educating but getting to know the breeders and judges, taking care of a dog that could be removed from her at any time if Sis didn't prove her stuff. Breeding is a lifetime thing, you've got to be prepared to put in the hard yards. lol I actually think this whole proving yourself for years is idiotic. But sometimes you have to play the game. I also start feeling really old as I think about the good old days and my experience as a first time breeder. All I got was amazing support and I had never even stepped foot in a show ring. I did obedience instead. I actually feel sorry for newbies now that think it might be nice to have a litter or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I must admit I was bemused by how long it took. Maybe it's the breed in Canada or maybe it was because she wanted a dog from that particular breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccb Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 You can try that approach, but it may not impress. You are more likely to succeed by suggesting co-ownership with the breeder and campaigning the dog or bitch extensively before considering breeding. Tell them you are looking for a show dog and might be interested in breeding some years down the track once you are an experienced exhibitor. The only way you are going to earn that trust, in a breed which is rife with BYBers and cross breeders, is as has already been said to demonstrate commitment over time. This is basically what I've said to them. That I'm looking for an addition to my family, I would like to get into showing and that down the track with more experience and guidance I'd like to consider becoming a reputable breeder. I've been talking to breeders on and off for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 This is basically what I've said to them. That I'm looking for an addition to my family, I would like to get into showing and that down the track with more experience and guidance I'd like to consider becoming a reputable breeder. I've been talking to breeders on and off for 2 years. When you say 'talk', do you mean face to face or by phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccb Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Forget about getting a prefix for now, that's not only putting the cart before the horse, it's putting the cart in another post code to the horse. I disagree, many breeders I've spoken to have simply said get yourself registered and then we will talk about a dog on mains. Even if you got a show quality/breeding quality bitch puppy tomorrow, you wouldn't be breeding from her for at least 2 years, so what's the rush? There is no rush, I've been in contact with some breeders on and off for two years. Asking questions, getting advice, looking for guidance, learning about showing and breeding , what to look for in a pup ect. It's not as if I've said hey, give me a dog to spit out some puppies ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccb Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 This is basically what I've said to them. That I'm looking for an addition to my family, I would like to get into showing and that down the track with more experience and guidance I'd like to consider becoming a reputable breeder. I've been talking to breeders on and off for 2 years. When you say 'talk', do you mean face to face or by phone? Phone and email. I live in rural NSW with only one other breeder of poodles and she does toys so it is hard for me to have face to face contact. I can see where you are going though. I can imagine it would be hard to build trust just over the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Phone and email. I live in rural NSW with only one other breeder of poodles and she does toys so it is hard for me to have face to face contact. I can see where you are going though. I can imagine it would be hard to build trust just over the phone. Oh, my breeders were interstate and overseas. It takes time, for sure. Have you managed to get to any local Shows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccb Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 So your a breeder yourself? I was actually offered a pup on mains just yesterday. But now after so many breeders have knocked me back - I have this nagging feeling it was too easy.. There are no shows where I live, next time I'm heading to the closest capital city I will definitely be lining my trip up with a show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Where is your closest Ag society show? There is a high chance of a dog show being there For example I'm going to a dog show at the Henty Show this weekend, Henty has a population of under 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkidsmum Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 My advice is do not discard or dismiss a breeder because they don't show. Many breeders who do not show may have dogs that are suitable for show. There may be many reasons why they don't show. Here are some. They don't enjoy it. They can't cope with grooming a show coat but can manage a tidy pet clip. Location makes it difficult. They have no one to help them manage gazebo/tents & carrying all that is needed. They have problems tolerating weather conditions. They may have transport or mobility problems that affect it, especially traveling distance They are shy & not confident. They can't cope with the competitive & political part. They breed to a good standard of conformation, health & temperament but don't place much value on showing dogs. I have seen many good dogs not in the ring that could be very successful, its just not everyones cup of tea so know your standard well which is much easier to judge if you can see dogs in pet clips. Work in a groomers, even one day a week, that gets poodles in if possible, you will learn so much about conformation & its variations hands on & when they are in the bath Much more than looking at a few immaculately show clipped groomed poodles at a show. Once you understand what you are looking for you will know when you see a good prospect in a puppy. Contrary to many opinions of other posts as I doubt you will be able to handle, help or get much time with people at shows. They are far too busy preparing & don't want their dogs touched. Its easier & more relaxed with short haired breeds generally. I totally agree with everything you say about showing Christina..does not make you a lousy breeder if you don't show..much more to breeding wonderful healthy fantastic conformation pups than carting them around the countryside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazhak Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 My advice is to build a relationship with your chosen breeder, before you start asking for a breeding animal. I live in tassie where my chosen breed is few & far between, I don't show yet, nor am I thinking about breeding yet, however I have started a relationship with my chosen breeder, they live in nsw, however I have 2 of her nuetered boys, both were offered for pet homes, (my oldest already had his showing championship) On both the occasions I personally went to collect my boys & spent time, getting to know their breeder. I adore my boys to bits, have learnt so much about them by having them in my life, I share their moments with their breeder, I hope 1 day in the future their breeder may trust me with a show quality breeding quality animal. Until then I will continue to trial both my boys in agility :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 By mentoring, would a breeder let a newbie join in things like the mating and whelping process? I'm just curious. Showing is something I've always been interested in but too scared to try. I've got my first mock/fun agility trial coming up and I'm terrified. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 definitely agree that a male is a great first step. It gives you an opportunity to develop a relationship and see how you go with the showing side of things. It is an excellent opportunity to learn and to make contacts. Starting this way can potentially open a lot more doors and mean you may get a much better bitch than you would have if you held out for a bitch first up. One of the most useful virtues for a breeder is patience. Breeding can be a lot about frustration and waiting more than actually doing. even for those who have been in a breed a long time. Good breeders will have waiting lists too and will reserve the best for those who they know can do them justice - particularly good bitches which can be as precious as gems. So earning trust and showing you are worthy of that trust can be paramount. In a nutshell - you want something they have that is precious and a lot of other people want too (a good quality potential breeding prospect is not always a dime a dozen). How can you show you are worth the risk? It is also important to remember how things will be viewed and the impression we can make. Many breeders do live in country areas for example. Travelling can be a big issue and the rest of our lives make things complicated. BUT dedicated breeders make time to go to shows, visit other breeders, go the National or other specialties if they can etc. Breeding and showing can be a reasonable commitment in terms of time and money. If someone is not going to be able to make the time and effort to do things in order to get a dog to show and breed, why should someone think they will do it after? Perception.... don't tell someone what you can't do and how hard it is to get out there. Because it simply wont get any easier once you have the dog. If it is too hard now, it will be too hard then too. Instead have a real think about what you CAN do. Make a plan to achieve your aim. Step one - seek out a mentor or mentors. Find someone to learn from. your aim can be to get a dog to show when a suitable one is available. Poodles are not an easy breed and can take a lot of commitment. Work on developing your knowledge and skills. For example, if you have a pet poodle, perhaps practice putting it in a show clip and seeing how you go maintaining it. It will help you develop your grooming skills and will show your commitment too. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Male first is the way to go. I ended up with two males that I titled in showing and flyball, with a National title to boot with the latter sport and still I was turned down for a bitch by one breeder because I had an entire male (that I showed) at home lol After 8 years of starting in the breed I finally got my main registered bitch and so glad I was made to wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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