oohsam Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 G'day everyone Read heaps on here first time posting. I'm a little conflicted and not sure if I'm training my puppy too hard. He's a GSP, 10 weeks old and he's just beautiful. He's my first dog and I'm training to be a gundog. Obedience is really important to me, I want a well behaved dog that listens and respects me. I started training the day he came home, about 1 week ago now and I'm not sure if I'm training too hard. I really like kikopup's method of training and I've been sticking to that. Currently, his meal time (in the morning before work, and evening meal after work) is his training time, so I have him hungry and really wanting the treats. I use a clicker also. Training sessions go for about 20-30 minutes and then we have play time after and he seems to really enjoy it. I'm conflicted because I am getting mixed signals from him. He now sits on command but I've been trying to get him to stay, with a lot of frustration (he doesn't see my frustration). I'm not sure if he's just a bit too young to be going through it. I'm also trying to solidify his skills before moving along to a new one. So my question is this. Am I training him too hard for his little brain or should I keep with it. At the moment I really want to reinforce the Sit/Stay/release commands as I feel these are extremity important for us both. Sorry if my questions are all amateur, I'm learning a lot with my boy and I get somewhat confused with all the info out there. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 G'day everyone Read heaps on here first time posting. I'm a little conflicted and not sure if I'm training my puppy too hard. He's a GSP, 10 weeks old and he's just beautiful. He's my first dog and I'm training to be a gundog. Obedience is really important to me, I want a well behaved dog that listens and respects me. I started training the day he came home, about 1 week ago now and I'm not sure if I'm training too hard. I really like kikopup's method of training and I've been sticking to that. Currently, his meal time (in the morning before work, and evening meal after work) is his training time, so I have him hungry and really wanting the treats. I use a clicker also. Training sessions go for about 20-30 minutes and then we have play time after and he seems to really enjoy it. I'm conflicted because I am getting mixed signals from him. He now sits on command but I've been trying to get him to stay, with a lot of frustration (he doesn't see my frustration). I'm not sure if he's just a bit too young to be going through it. I'm also trying to solidify his skills before moving along to a new one. So my question is this. Am I training him too hard for his little brain or should I keep with it. At the moment I really want to reinforce the Sit/Stay/release commands as I feel these are extremity important for us both. Sorry if my questions are all amateur, I'm learning a lot with my boy and I get somewhat confused with all the info out there. Cheers 5 mins max at that age, incidental training rather than sessions, and puppy should think it is playing, no work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 G'day everyone Read heaps on here first time posting. I'm a little conflicted and not sure if I'm training my puppy too hard. He's a GSP, 10 weeks old and he's just beautiful. He's my first dog and I'm training to be a gundog. Obedience is really important to me, I want a well behaved dog that listens and respects me. I started training the day he came home, about 1 week ago now and I'm not sure if I'm training too hard. I really like kikopup's method of training and I've been sticking to that. Currently, his meal time (in the morning before work, and evening meal after work) is his training time, so I have him hungry and really wanting the treats. I use a clicker also. Training sessions go for about 20-30 minutes and then we have play time after and he seems to really enjoy it. I'm conflicted because I am getting mixed signals from him. He now sits on command but I've been trying to get him to stay, with a lot of frustration (he doesn't see my frustration). I'm not sure if he's just a bit too young to be going through it. I'm also trying to solidify his skills before moving along to a new one. So my question is this. Am I training him too hard for his little brain or should I keep with it. At the moment I really want to reinforce the Sit/Stay/release commands as I feel these are extremity important for us both. Sorry if my questions are all amateur, I'm learning a lot with my boy and I get somewhat confused with all the info out there. Cheers 20 to 30 minutes is WAY too much at that age, or any age if it is all in one session. I would be aiming for one to three minutes per session, then end the session on a high note while he is still enjoying himself & always have a party big time, then use your "end of training" cue & disconnect from him. This is so he can recognize when training has ended & he can relax. Several very short sessions a day would be fine IMO, but keep them short. Good idea to use his food for training, but keep sessions short. :) Even to a grown dog, 5 minutes of mental work is the equivilent to a 30 minute walk. Good on you for using the clicker As most people here on DOL know that I am a clicker nut :laugh: & Kikkopup is my favourite. Make sure that EVERY time you click that you deliver a treat...even if you make a mistake & click the wrong thing. This is the same as if you were using a marker word, like "yes" otherwise the clicker/marker word will quickly lose it's value as a "marker" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohsam Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh wow. 5 minutes. Poor guy must be totally drained. Ok I'll fix it up. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Agree with the others. IMHO, relationship between handler and dog is key to all dog sports - so I like to let puppies be puppies. Puppyhood is all too short - you want to really enjoy it to the max. Your pup is actually learning the whole time, so your formal lessons are better off being incidental ones - and lots of mix and match, like kikopup - so not just the formal obedience stuff. If the pup has a good relationship with you and is used to learning all kinds of stuff as games, the formal stuff pretty much falls into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh common, we need a pick of this pup! :) oohsam, one trick I use to keep training short is to get out ten treats. Once those ten treats have been used up, then I stop and do something else :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Agree with the others I would also suggest that you ditch teaching the "stay" as such (it really is an abstract concept for a dog) but teach "sit means sit until you're told otherwise." You do this by ALWAYS releasing from the sit, reward heavily for sit and release (fun, fun, fun!) and only ask for tiny increments in improvement plus work on fast sits, distance from the dog, duration and distractions all separately. That's based on my experience with my ESS in gundog retrieving trials and agility and my Dalmatian in agility and obedience trials. And my dogs STILL think training is just a whole bunch of playtime :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohsam Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 Ok I'll keep them real short. When should I start to increase his training. Here's a pic of him. He's very cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) oosham I still try to keep my sessions super short - it often means I have to train SMARTER! Super cute pup!!! Edited February 18, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 awww yes, he is very, very cute :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Oh what a cutie! With pups I generally make my interactions with them 90% play and 10% "work". That means super high reward rate, fast and run rewards, lots of playing tug and food games with bits of work like training sits or drops thrown in. The most important thing IMO with pups at that age, is to build a very high value for me, good communication system and relationship. I encourage lots of handler focus early on. Once you have a good foundation training obedience exercises is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 What sort of gundog work do you want to do with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohsam Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 What sort of gundog work do you want to do with him? This is all great info thanks guys. Duck and Deer work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Yes agree with everybody else's posts. 90% play 10% train. 5 mins max per session. Any more than this & you can sour them. They only have a very short attention span. Building a strong bond with your puppy is just as important IMHO. I spend a lot of time with my dogs. Just hanging out. Building solid rapport. Gorgeous puppy you have by the way. Edited February 18, 2015 by BC Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattledoglover Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh what a cutie! With pups I generally make my interactions with them 90% play and 10% "work". That means super high reward rate, fast and run rewards, lots of playing tug and food games with bits of work like training sits or drops thrown in. The most important thing IMO with pups at that age, is to build a very high value for me, good communication system and relationship. I encourage lots of handler focus early on. Once you have a good foundation training obedience exercises is easy. Absolutely agree with you Huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuccatheLagotto Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Agree with the others. IMHO, relationship between handler and dog is key to all dog sports - so I like to let puppies be puppies. Puppyhood is all too short - you want to really enjoy it to the max. Your pup is actually learning the whole time, so your formal lessons are better off being incidental ones - and lots of mix and match, like kikopup - so not just the formal obedience stuff. If the pup has a good relationship with you and is used to learning all kinds of stuff as games, the formal stuff pretty much falls into place. I agree with this completely. Now that your puppy knows what “sit” means, I would be applying that to daily activities, sit before going through the door, sit before dinner, sit before you throw a ball, sit to put on a leash, sit for a pat etc. IMO, this sort of “training” is much more useful than having a dog that knows how to sit 10 times in a row but isn’t able to apply that knowledge to everyday situations. It also means that you’re able to train throughout the day without tiring the puppy out. Edited February 19, 2015 by LuccatheLagotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohsam Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh what a cutie! With pups I generally make my interactions with them 90% play and 10% "work". That means super high reward rate, fast and run rewards, lots of playing tug and food games with bits of work like training sits or drops thrown in. The most important thing IMO with pups at that age, is to build a very high value for me, good communication system and relationship. I encourage lots of handler focus early on. Once you have a good foundation training obedience exercises is easy. Absolutely agree with you Huski Last night I spent some time with him in the backyard playing, about an hour. And then just did some tidying up in the garden with him around. I only made him sit a few times with rewards and clickers. He's worked out that the treat bag is full of goodies and as soon as I touch it he sits and looks at me with those big eyes. i've also managed to get him to point with a duck wing on a piece of fishing wire, he really enjoys that. The only question I have is how much playing is sufficient. I dont want to tire him out. I cant find these answers anywhere..I basically need a puppy handbook. i'm just learning as I go along. There's alot of mis-information out there though and I'm wary to listen to other dog owners. One dog owner was telling me how I should stick his face in his poo when he poos in the wrong spot. I was shocked at this method as it just sounds cruel. Is it too early to introduce a capgun while he eats or randomly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 For gundog stuff - there's no rush and I wouldn't mess around with cap guns at the moment. Yes it might be fine but you might catch him in a fear period. What I do is have the dog some distance from the capgun (held by someone else). They fire it. You feed the dog a treat. If all ok take a step forward. You actually want them to see the gun as producing reward rather than condition them to have no reaction. For more gundog stuff have a read of the Retrieving thread in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oohsam Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 For gundog stuff - there's no rush and I wouldn't mess around with cap guns at the moment. Yes it might be fine but you might catch him in a fear period. What I do is have the dog some distance from the capgun (held by someone else). They fire it. You feed the dog a treat. If all ok take a step forward. You actually want them to see the gun as producing reward rather than condition them to have no reaction. For more gundog stuff have a read of the Retrieving thread in this forum. Great stuff. Thank you. I will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) My other priority is recalls. You cannot play fun awesome recall games enough. Then I add in puppy retrieves. Don't do retrieves on wings. Way too early. I don't train pointing dogs but that part sounds ok. Where are you based? Edited February 19, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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