dididog Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 So Didi and I are slowly clunking our way through the Rally O exercises and we have the call front - finish right down really well so I've decided to move onto the the finish left but... I don't really know how to go about it? Does anyone know of a good video they could link me to explain it or break down the command? When I watch videos of dogs doing it they all seem to spring back into place and face forward but Didi is big and awkward and has more of a 'slow and steady' approach to commands so I don't know if she can manage that sort of movement. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 So Didi and I are slowly clunking our way through the Rally O exercises and we have the call front - finish right down really well so I've decided to move onto the the finish left but... I don't really know how to go about it? Does anyone know of a good video they could link me to explain it or break down the command? When I watch videos of dogs doing it they all seem to spring back into place and face forward but Didi is big and awkward and has more of a 'slow and steady' approach to commands so I don't know if she can manage that sort of movement. Thanks! How have you taught heel work? My dogs are always taught heelwork via a pivot or perch work - so they swing their butt around into heel - like this: Because they are taught to 'find' heel this way - teaching a finish left is just an extension of this. so instead of having her find heel from my side, I would ask her from sitting in front of me to find heel. I find they catch on easily. I would toss food infront of me and then they come into heel - C&T.... clear as mud?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 So Didi and I are slowly clunking our way through the Rally O exercises and we have the call front - finish right down really well so I've decided to move onto the the finish left but... I don't really know how to go about it? Does anyone know of a good video they could link me to explain it or break down the command? When I watch videos of dogs doing it they all seem to spring back into place and face forward but Didi is big and awkward and has more of a 'slow and steady' approach to commands so I don't know if she can manage that sort of movement. Thanks! How have you taught heel work? My dogs are always taught heelwork via a pivot or perch work - so they swing their butt around into heel - like this: Because they are taught to 'find' heel this way - teaching a finish left is just an extension of this. so instead of having her find heel from my side, I would ask her from sitting in front of me to find heel. I find they catch on easily. I would toss food infront of me and then they come into heel - C&T.... clear as mud?? Our heelwork started off a bit of a mess, mainly just luring and hoping for the best(I've never trained a dog before in case that wasn't clear ) but I have since moved on to teaching her rear end awareness/pivoting like in the video. Her pivoting around me for turning while in heel position is really good but pivoting to find heel is not very good/she doesn't really understand how to do it without the target so I guess I should probably work on getting that up to scratch first! But yes I understand how finish left would just be an extension of that rather than a separate command, thanks! I kind of blanked on the fact we've been doing pivot work and how that would be helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am training a flip finish to my puppy at the moment too. I was also going to suggest working on rear end awareness. I actually train the flip with a lure as well as REA work, example in this vid; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am training a flip finish to my puppy at the moment too. I was also going to suggest working on rear end awareness. I actually train the flip with a lure as well as REA work, example in this vid; Oh wow that little puppy destroyed my self-esteem Thanks for the video Huski, I will get back onto the REA train, got a bit slack with it after we got our pivots while in heel position down that I forgot that she kind of needs to know how to pivot into it to begin with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 REA is super important for turns as well not just finishes. Keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Lira thinks REA is pretty cool - especially with her new box . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Lira thinks REA is pretty cool - especially with her new box . Wait till you see what I've done to mine ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Have just seen LOL - think mine might be in need of some modifications . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Another vote here for lots of pivot work. And then for nice straight fronts, and straight position at heel, I love using platforms (have a look for Michele Poulliot if you're not sure how they work.) Similar to the boxes that ness is talking about. You can make them by cutting up and duct taping something like yoga mats or those camping floor mats that are often on special. Make them high enough that the dog will know if they're not in position, because part of their body will be off the platform. I'm impatient, so I tend to use luring probably more than I should to get the behaviour in the first place, but then fade the lure as soon as possible. If the dog is not straight, they'll be off the platform, so just a try again .. The principle is to train the dog's muscle memory for what the position should feel like. I'd warm up with some pivot bowl/perch box work first each time. Edited June 2, 2015 by Tassie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I don't use a perch/tub or any elevated platform for training heel pos and REA because the dog isn't elevated when they are actually doing the positions (such as a flip finish) so this can build the incorrect muscle memory. So we use a box that looks like its upside down, works the same but builds the right muscle memory :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I can see what you're saying huski .. but with the control box/frame, you still have the frame. Just got to say the platform works fine for me .. mine are not high .. probably 4 camping mats high ... dogs don't seems to have any problem transitioning .. and when they're going from one position to the other, they are actually on the same level. Either way, you eventually fade the prop anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Tassie you can technically remove the sides of the control box and just have the flat board :laugh:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I can see what you're saying huski .. but with the control box/frame, you still have the frame. Just got to say the platform works fine for me .. mine are not high .. probably 4 camping mats high ... dogs don't seems to have any problem transitioning .. and when they're going from one position to the other, they are actually on the same level. Either way, you eventually fade the prop anyway. I think if you're a pretty good handler the dog gets it anyway. The sides of the box don't change the height of the dog though, so they do still learn the correct muscle memory for a turn and flip finish. It's probably a bit pedantic, but I've seen many dogs that lose accuracy on a flip finish and sort of finish a bit on an angle, most often it's been trained on a raised platform so it could probably have been avoided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That's why I use the second platform, so it's easier to maintain criteria for the straightness of the final position. Agree that it's easier to maintain the straight front, cos you can see it ... we have to work harder to maintain criteria at the side .. but it's part of maintaining correct heel position, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 That's why I use the second platform, so it's easier to maintain criteria for the straightness of the final position. Agree that it's easier to maintain the straight front, cos you can see it ... we have to work harder to maintain criteria at the side .. but it's part of maintaining correct heel position, isn't it. I agree :) This is one thing I love about training heel work, there can be all these little complexities you have to break down and train to get precision and accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Totally agree . At a seminar a few years ago, Kamal Fernandez said there were 26 components to heelwork ! (Think I got the number right.) It's so hard to get people to break things up and train each component before they put it together, and then if something goes wrong, figure out which component is broken, and take it out and fix it. But I agree with you .. I love heelwork now. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Hey Terri, how are you going training the flip finish? I thought of you when I uploaded this vid a couple of days ago, here's Crazy Blaze-y starting to get the hang of her finishes :) Edited July 15, 2015 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Does anyone have any hints on transitioning from an awesome flip finish while using a perch (upturned bowl or phonebook) to an average one with no perch? Edited July 16, 2015 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does anyone have any hints on transitioning from an awesome flip finish while using a perch (upturned bowl or phonebook) to an average one with no perch? Have you tried transitioning already Lisa? Maybe you could post a video of what it looks like on the perch vs without one. When the dog is elevated with a perch this can build the incorrect muscle memory as you are adding height to the dog they don't have without the perch. Have you tried using a flat target, like a frisbee or similar? If you do, do you get the same quality flip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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