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belly82

Co Owning?

25 posts in this topic

espinay2   

When it comes to co ownership it is all about the relationship and if you think you can be friends with the person (and are willing to maintain that relationship). I do highly recommend all the 'what-ifs' be discussed and set down in an agreement in writing. If you are not sure what would happen in a particular scenario, ask and discuss it. Get them to explain clearly how they would like the relationship to work.

When it comes to co-owning a male that is often easier than co owning a female. Sometimes the breeder may just want to keep their options open, and the dog may never be used at stud for example. In reality most stud dogs are used infrequently if at all. But if it is to be, you need to get an idea of when, where and how often and what you are willing to accommodate. Also who would get the stud fee (for example if the dog is to be used for outside dogs), what health testing is required before breeding and who pays for the health testing. Discuss with the breeder how often they think the dog may be used so you can discuss including limits in the agreement and also how far you are willing to go out of your way to accommodate it. Basically talk it all through. I also have had agreements where if the co-owner wishes to desex, I must be consulted first (if there is a valid reason, then I have agreed to it) and be given the opportunity/option of collecting and freezing semen before it is done (and if it is done without my input/agreement, then a specified monetary penalty applies).

Sometimes co-ownership can be very handy. For example, your dog may have somewhere to stay when you go away - a place they are familiar with and happy with. I have a co-owned dog I bred that regularly returns to me for holidays at no cost to the co-owner (we are three hours apart so the contract specifies we meet at the halfway point for the handover - which we do unless something else is more mutually convenient). This is his 'other home' and he is as happy here as in his 'normal' home. We have info about his visits in the contract.

If in NSW council registration should be pretty much a non issue if the dog is older. NSW rego is lifetime registration so the dog should already be lifetime registered and the fee already paid. If you transfer the dog to your name with council, I would suggest putting the breeder/co-owner as the 'secondary contact'.

If the dog is to be shown, the ease of upkeep with often depend on breed. For shorthaired dogs this will be relatively easy. Coated dogs will need more discussion with the breeder about what will be involved. As for maintaining the dog in 'show condition' - basically keep the dog fit and healthy and don't let it get fat (as ANY owner should be doing). You may want to specify how often the dog would be shown, whether they are to be local shows only, or primarily specialites (which only happen a couple of times per year), or whether the dog will only be shown until it has its champion title (or if it will be shown after that). Also whether you will take the dog to shows or will the breeder pick up the dog. Whether you are responsible for pre-show bathing or grooming and any maintenance grooming or will the breeder do that etc. Also who is responsible for paying entry fees.

Basically it is wise to go into it with your eyes open and decide if it will work for you. Some find it fun to own a 'show dog' without having to put in all the effort of showing them themselves (basically bragging rights LOL!). Some find it a good introduction to the show world and as a result get 'hooked' on shows themselves as a hobby. Others would find it a hindrance and too much effort. Horses for courses.

As a final word I will give an example of a similar agreement I know of. I used to groom an old border collie for a family. A VERY well loved dog and a great family. When he died they were looking for a new dog. I happened to know of a male Portuguese Water Dog that was looking to be placed, buy the breeder/handler (handler was a person who was showing the dog for the breeder) wanted the dog to be shown to its title. I knew these people would make a good home so 'hooked them up'. They were the perfect home for him. 'Basil' went away for weekends occasionally for shows or came to stay when they went on holidays. He was groomed regularly by me and the 'handler'. The owner did stress a little about his diet and coat care making sure he was in good condition (though to be honest I didn't see it as any more than many owners do on occasion and we were quick to reassure them they were doing a great job - though occasionally we had to remind them about too many treats... again normal for many dogs LOL!). The children loved getting all the ribbons that Basil won and liked to come along occasionally to watch him in the ring (they were not into showing, but loved that their dog was a show dog). When Basil was finished being shown, he was desexed and transferred fully to their name. He passed away recently at the age of 15. I saw his owner in the supermarket yesterday who was telling me what an absolutely wonderful dog he was, what a great decision it was to take him and how much they miss him.

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Haven't read through everyone else's posts but I personally would never have a pet on co-ownership, I have had a few grooming customers run into serious issues with this agreement, two of them lawyers ended up being involved.

Also keeping an entire male can become a serious pain to live with, while not all boys will cause issues you will have to consider territorial marking, inappropriate humping and being unsociable with other males amongst other problematic behaviours.

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Bjelkier   

I've got a bitch here on co ownership with another breeder. Our girl will go back to her breeder for a litter and then come back to me. We've been friends for years and everything was clearly laid out in the beginning and we've had no issues at all.

I also have the same deal with another friend of mine who got the pick bitch from my last litter, the little girl will come back to me for a litter and then go back to her family.

If done correctly and everyone knows where they stand and what is expected then these situations can work out really well for everyone. Just make sure you go over everything and it's in writing before you take the dog.

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gapvic   

We have a male Affenpinscher on breeders terms. It is working well for us (and hopefully his owner) - we get to enjoy his company each day, and she can use him for breeding and take him to shows when she likes. I'm sure it's not an arrangement that would suit everyone but we're comfortable with it :)

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I have a breed where co-ownership is very common and there are rarely any problems. Breeders tend to not keep more than about 12 as they need a lot of one on one attention. In some cases the dog stays in the breeder's name on their ANKC papers but the pet owner's name on the microchip. In others the dog is in two names and both owners have to be members of their state control. Often the breeder will pay for the other membership and increased council/state registration as well if the pet owner is not going to be getting any benefit from the arrangement. When the pet owner goes on holidays the dog goes to the breeder so saving a fortune on kennel fees if you like to travel a lot and many co-ordinate a cluster of shows for when the pet owner will be away on holidays. In fact a co-own of a show dog is a great compromise for people who do have to travel a lot and feel that they would not want to have to kennel a dog that much. If you live close to the breeder, they may just collect the dog on Friday and drop him back on Sunday night when he is being shown. They will tend to show most weekends for a while, then have a break or even stop once the dog is titled. The usual arrangement for vet fees is that the pet owner pays all normal fees and the breeder pays for all health testing. Done the right way it can be a great way to be involved in helping a really good breeder to contribute to the future of their breed, while keeping dogs mainly in pet homes, not kennels. It usually works out best when neither owner is in the arrangement for any financial gain and you have to be really happy to become friends with the other person and be involved with them. If that trust is not there, it won't work.

I know a breeder who has a litter at the moment from a bitch she placed in a pet home with a family she met many years ago, who loved her dogs but were concerned that their frequent travelling would make owning their own dog difficult. Back then she placed an adult male with them, that they shared back and forth for the rest of his life. He was equally happy in either home. When he passed away they got a female puppy from her with the intention of again sharing her with the breeder and she now has her first litter, sired by their deceased dog, from frozen semen and the breeder is doing all the work. When she goes home they have the option to desex her or send her back for another litter later. It is entirely their choice and they can own a dog knowing she will be completely safe and happy when they have to travel.

Just have a good talk to the breeder and ask them exactly how they want the arrangement to work. If you are happy with it and feel it suits you, go for it. If anything about the breeder or the arrangement is not what you want, look elsewhere for a dog.

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