joey13 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hi guys, Picking up puppy (Mini English Bull Terrier) this Friday! The excitement too much! We plan to feed her a balanced diet (50/50) of a commercially bought BARF Food (Canine Country or similar) and Raw Meaty Bones. Just trying to figure out how much she will actually eat per day? Most sites say to feed puppies 3-5% (Lets average it to 4%) of body weight. Now is that of her ideal ADULT weight or her ACTUAL weight? Adult dogs should be fed 2-3% of their body weight there after. What is a Mini Bull's ideal/average final weight? Most sites are giving me an indication of 10kg based on the fact she weighed 2.2kg at 6 weeks of age. Help is much appreciated. Have also found this guideline...thoughts? 7-10 weeks 8 - 10% of bodyweight 10-16 weeks 7.5 - 8.5% of bodyweight 16-20 weeks 6.5 - 7.5% of bodyweight 20-24 weeks 5.5 - 6.5% of bodyweight 24-36 weeks 4.5 - 5.5% of bodyweight 36-56 weeks 3.5 - 4.5% of bodyweight 56-68 weeks 3.5% 68 weeks plus is adult maintenence at 2-3% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 What is the breeder currently feeding the pup ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey13 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 What is the breeder currently feeding the pup ? Im led to believe a combination of supercoat and other raw foods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) It's based on % of current body weight not adult, but you need to understand that this is a guide only. There is no way of knowing what the ideal adult body weight of your dog is till she is an adult and you can measure her condition. Mini Bulls will often overeat if you let them, and you need manage their food intake. Puppies should be lean, and energetic when awake with a ravenous appetite. Do some research on dog condition assessment, then use the % of body weight as educated starting point. Do not overfeed your puppy, err on the side of caution, you are better off mildly underfeeding than overfeeding. Also, don't worry about people telling you to feed what the breeder is feeding. Good on you for looking at alternatives. BARF is a great way to get into raw feeding and your dog will thank you! Edited August 3, 2015 by BullBreedBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Joey an adult bull terrier miniature weighs a lot more than ten kilos. My friend's girl is small for a mini (lots of bully people comment on it) and weighs closer to 20kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 \. Also, don't worry about people telling you to feed what the breeder is feeding. Good on you for looking at alternatives. BARF is a great way to get into raw feeding and your dog will thank you! Actually that that can be a very dangerous statement to make & not all dogs do well on BARF just because people think it should means nothing . The reason you ask what the breeder feeds is because changing the diet to quickly can cause the pup issues so its common sense to wean a puppy over to new foods for its benefit not the humans & many breeders like ourselves guarantee our puppies on the diet suggested or a diet that we have mutually agreed on because forums have become a dangerous place where people suggest diets without knowing the breeds & issues it may cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey13 Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all the advice guys. From the research I have done, there is indeed a lot of contradictory info. Some suggest to wean pups off slowly from dry/kibble fed - BARF gradually increasing the BARF percentage over time. However some suggest that this can be dangerous and detrimental to the dog as the two types of different food digest at different rates and will be competing. This can make the dog susceptible to salmonela posiing as the dry/kibble food keeps the BARF/Raw food in the system longer than it usually would be. The advice is to swap from one food 100% to the next leaving at least 12 hours between. The following is quoted from The Dog's Dinner "...the best way to start a dog off on raw is to ditch the commercial food and dive straight in to a raw method. This allows the dog to start de-toxing immediately and it will take your dog approximately 4-8 weeks to get to the stage where his diet is varied and balanced. Mixing raw and commercial food together This is a very undesirable practice and could be very detrimental to your dog's health - you will hear people telling you that they cannot be served together in the same bowl as they are digested at different rates........ .......But what about serving raw and kibble in two clearly separate meals and what does this actually mean for your dog? Well, if you do choose to take this route and decide to gradually swap your dog over - you put him at risk of disease caused by the pathogens contained in raw meat - eg Salmonella, E-coli etc. Dogs are naturally designed to cope with these when fed a raw diet - as his system has an acidic stomach and short digestive tract that process the raw food very efficiently, the pathogens do not get chance to lie in the stomach or gut with the opportunity of multiplying. However.....When you add carbohydrate based food (commercial kibble) to this you can slow down the normal digestion of the raw food, as it competes with the commercial food to be digested - this means that the raw food is remaining longer in your dog's system thus giving more time for the pathogens in the raw meat to increase and potentially cause harm to your dog - This is one reason why the newly swapped dog can go on to develop Salmonella etc IF HIS owners still insist on feeding commercial food alongside the addition of raw... Here is a great link to give you the scientific reasoning behind this, and includes a tour of the dog's digestive system and a study done on testing how well a dog's system can cope with kibble and raw, it really is fascinating [big grin] HERE Ditch the commercial and embrace the raw !!! Finish feeding your commercial food one day and begin with a raw diet the next, leaving at least 12 hours between..." Edited August 4, 2015 by joey13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Totally agree wit showdog. That guide to swapping the food over in one go might be fine for an established dog, but seriously, I would not be changing a baby puppy over suddenly from what the breeder has been feeding. This is a baby, which will be undergoing massive changes in living conditions (as in away from mum, litter mates and breeder). Pups can find this more or less stressful ... depends on the individual, but IMHO you don't want to be adding another, avoidable, stressors in the first couple of weeks. I'd be sticking with what the pup is used to for the first few weeks .. then you have time to think about making the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I have been feeding raw for about 15 years. I have never looked at the % or measured anything. I just look at the dog/puppy. They loose weight very fast or put on weight fast. You can change the look of a dog in a week. For my breed that weighs about 40kg when adult the puppy weighs as many kg as its weeks. Puppy eats pretty much as much as an adult, which is about 1-1.5kg of food a day, depending how active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Also, don't worry about people telling you to feed what the breeder is feeding. Good on you for looking at alternatives. BARF is a great way to get into raw feeding and your dog will thank you! Actually that that can be a very dangerous statement to make & not all dogs do well on BARF just because people think it should means nothing . The reason you ask what the breeder feeds is because changing the diet to quickly can cause the pup issues so its common sense to wean a puppy over to new foods for its benefit not the humans & many breeders like ourselves guarantee our puppies on the diet suggested or a diet that we have mutually agreed on because forums have become a dangerous place where people suggest diets without knowing the breeds & issues it may cause Interesting, I'm not sure which part of my post you interpreted to be that the OP should change the diet too quickly!? Anyway I'm not after an argument and I agree forums can be dangerous. I have been a Bull Terrier owner/lover/breeder for many years and am very confident in advising people that Bully's absolutely thrive on a raw diet. I personally don't like the undertone that people who are doing appropriate research, and making responsible decisions should be hemmed in by what their breeders believe. I'd say about 80% of our puppies stay on a raw diet after leaving us, but we work with those that don't/can't continue raw for an appropriate solution if they ask for support/advice. The breeder in this case is feeding Purina Supercoat, so can only assume doesn't place a high degree of importance on food quality. Bully's are super prone to skin allergies and in my experience raw feeding is the best diet for them. BARF is a great introduction to raw feeding as it's already balanced and super user friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 As for the practise of switching cold turkey over from kibble to raw, whilst I do know lot's of people that have done it successfully I generally recomend going more slowly with baby puppies. What I would do is make the last one out of the puppies' meals raw for a week, then make the second and last meals raw for a week before going fully raw in the third week. People get all tied in knot's about digestion rates and other things, but there's really nothing substantive or authoritive on the subject that I know of. We have used this 2 week approach (or 1 weeks for older pups that are having 2 meals a day) several times, and know of many people that have used it successfully without any major digestive diruptions for the pup. OP if you want more specific advise feel free to give me a PM and I'll help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I have been feeding raw for about 15 years. I have never looked at the % or measured anything. I just look at the dog/puppy. They loose weight very fast or put on weight fast. You can change the look of a dog in a week. For my breed that weighs about 40kg when adult the puppy weighs as many kg as its weeks. Puppy eats pretty much as much as an adult, which is about 1-1.5kg of food a day, depending how active. Yeah the Bulmastiff breeder that we got Baxter from is the one that introduced me to raw feeding and he does exactly the same thing. His dogs get a bone of various type/size every second day or so, some offal when he remembers to throw it in, and just a bowl of raw meat (whatever they have offcuts etc) and leftover veggies. He thinks this practise of weighing food, supplements, calcium-phosporuos balance etc is all completely nuts! He just goes by the llok and feel of his dogs and increase decreases the amount he's feeding a bit as he see's fit. His dogs are all doing just fine, look great and don't have health issues to speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) I agree, if they are feeding Supercoat they really aren't that concerned about health. I have found mine to do much better on raw ( i feed roo and VANS, eggs ,sardines,and chicken feet.), and since switching over from kibble my girl is way more toned and skin is really good, plus she loves it! I did look at Barf , but it was a pricey option i think? i also dont measure mine, i go on how the dogs look. Edited August 4, 2015 by juice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey13 Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks again for all the advice. Very helpful. I am continuing to do research and I am starting to think that maybe I could give the Raw feeding a go myself rather than buying the commercially prepared products. The information available is overwhelming and can be somewhat confronting. I've even started making my own little Excel calculator to try and keep the balance between meet and bone correct if I am to go this route. It is however all based on approximations. I might have to be a little pedantic and weigh everything first and keep a diary for the first few months until I am used to seeing what amount of each food actually looks like and the correct balances and then I should be able to go by my eye. Very nervous! I only want the very best for my new pup! I am copping a fair amount of criticism from friends and family about my approach to feeding (with respect to raw) however I am not going to let this persuade me! I'm confident in the research of done and confident in my decision which is a educated and informed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) OK - can't help myself!! I have three westies - two oldies and one we think is middle-aged. Mac is at the end of his life so he gets whatever he feels like within reason (he's just polished off a serve of scrambled egg!). But - Sarah my 14 year old is terrific - people just don't believe she is 14 she is in such good shape - good weight, good health, some loss of power in her back legs and occasionally gunky ears. Brilliant teeth. Otherwise she is a fit healthy bossy oldie. Similarly with Andy my middle aged puppy farm rescue who is thriving on raw. They have at least yearly blood panels, all completely normal so far and they are all doing really really well on raw. But I don't over complicate it and this pretty much describes what I do too: Yeah the Bulmastiff breeder that we got Baxter from is the one that introduced me to raw feeding and he does exactly the same thing. His dogs get a bone of various type/size every second day or so, some offal when he remembers to throw it in, and just a bowl of raw meat (whatever they have offcuts etc) and leftover veggies. He thinks this practise of weighing food, supplements, calcium-phosporuos balance etc is all completely nuts! He just goes by the llok and feel of his dogs and increase decreases the amount he's feeding a bit as he see's fit.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.5px;">His dogs are all doing just fine, look great and don't have health issues to speak of. The only difference is I use Adelaide Dog's raw mix - which is terrific stuff and my guys absolutely love it. And on the days I forget to defrost their raw they get Homebrand Mackerel in oil. They are very unimpressed with the occasional dry food meal - the mournful looks are priceless ( I just tell them an occasional 'Maccas' won't hurt them!). So as far as puppies go while I'm no expert, if it was my puppy I'd gradually change over to a raw diet too. While I absolutely respect the advice of the puppy breeders here, I think we have a real tendency to over-think and over-complicate dog nutrition. And over the years I've seen nothing that makes me change my mind on that. Dogs and puppies survived and thrived really well before commercial dog food became available and a raw diet simply makes sense to me - for puppies as well as dogs. To me commercial dog food is just Maccas for dogs. But absolutely understand that others see it differently. Edited August 4, 2015 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 If you send me your email address Ill email you my diet chart that I give to my puppy buyers its simple to follow. Not to be given out to anyone without my permission tho! I applaud you for trying to do this, not many people are as keen. and it really isn't difficult, probably cheaper then buying premium dog food, and certainly healthier for your dog. Ignore the family and friends BS. I wonder if they give their kids 2 minute noodle soup and Mc Donalds every day for their whole lives and nothing else Re going cold turkey with a change -I'd avoid it with a baby puppy that just came home. Do the two week transition. There is enough stress on the puppy being in a new home, you dont need to add the food to it. They stop eating for first couple of days anyway, no need to make it worse with a potential upset stomach. Re supplements - I give supplements. Pet pep up, or missing link or vets all natural, or for an older dog rose hip powder But none of the phosphorus or calcium, none of the measuring percentage etc. They get chicken carcasses one day, some other stuff another day, raw fish, veggies and fruit. leftovers, eggs, yoghurt, offal, meat, bones etc etc etc My puppies are raised on a natural diet, they get a chicken carcass at 4-5 weeks of age to demolish LOL pleasure to look at and a lot more then doing a spreadsheet to calculate whats in it :D Best advice I can give you - buy a freezer and find a supply of a variety of meats. And a supply of minced chicken carcasses/bones. petbarn has it, nd many good pet shops will stock it. I never buy the ready made BARF, its very expensive. I did buy it couple of time to try, certainly not economical for me. But I have more then one dog, and my dogs are large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey13 Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks for the kind words Mon. Much appreciated. The chart sounds great. I have sent you a PM. Many thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey13 Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 I don't believe the breeder had any more small puppies and the bag of puppy super coat I saw was small. Hopefully I can convince her to provide it to me so that I can wean pup off the kibbles. I like the sound of last meal in a week, two second last meals etc etc. I am led to believe her entire stud is fed a RAW diet so I am not sure why this particular pup is on the super coat. I think she might give them a small amount as a filler here and there but I'm certain that pup has had some raw food. I will clarify on Friday. Will keep everyone posted on the progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 If the pup has had raw then you can go to straight raw straight away. I find that dog fed kibble only don't know what to do with bones, they play with them but don't eat them, but those that had something - even simple like chicken necks or wings will do other stuff easily too. Introduce veg straight away, just give the pup celery sticks and carrots to play. It might not eat it but will get the taste going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey13 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Weighed puppy today and she is 10.5kgs. She was 22 weeks 2 days ago. She weighed 4.6kgs at 10 weeks so she has put on average 491kg per week. Looking at the scale on the first page though, it would appear I have been underfeeding my dog but looking at her, shes in top condition and is neither under/over. She is eating 100% Raw and eats around 450-550grams of food a day. Edited November 16, 2015 by joey13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now