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FootprintsinSand

Dogs Giving Birth In Pounds

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Leah82   

There are some good points raised in this thread but ultimately asking questions in a public forum and repeating that you are concerned for the welfare of the dog without making any steps to find out the full story or help this girls situation is a waste of everyone's time.

I agree with Melzawelza that legitimate questions should be answered upfront and honestly by welfare organisations but sars didn't ask the people involved in this girls care, she sought opinions from a public forum

I've seen this FB post shared a few times, a few things to think about next time you are concerned...

Been wanting to write this post all day. It occurred to me that some people don't have the full understanding on how a rescue works or the inner workings of saving an animal on the pts list. Recently my beloved cousin tagged me in a post and it made me think back to when i only knew bits and pieces of the rescue game. And i thought id share some advice and info that i have learned along the way.

So here goes.

Many of you may see a dog on the pts list and want to save it. With absolutely all great intentions. Sharing a post is a great way of doing that. Many try contacting a rescue to tag the animal to try and save it. Generally speaking most rescues are already aware of the animal as they monitor pounds. And I'm sure most rescues get a bulk lot of emails asking to save this dog or this cat etc.

But take a moment if you will to think of what that involves. Here is by no means a complete list of things a rescue must think of before tagging an animal.

1. Finances. Consider each dog costs minimum 300 dollars (c5, microchip, desex, heartworm, worming, tick control, flea control. ) and that is if its healthy. Many require additional vet work done, surgeries, pregnancy etc etc. Which can cost into the thousands. And lets face it most pound dogs are not in great condition.

2.housing since foster carers are far and few most dogs will require kenneling. Costing roughly 150 per week per dog. Consider that some rescues have over 40 dogs. Do the maths. Somehow they have to come up with that kind of money EACH WEEK. Not once or twice.

3. Transportation has to be arranged by volunteers or has to be paid costing up to 300 and more to transport them to vets, kennels etc

All registered rescue charities are run by volunteers . It means they all have full time jobs and volunteer their free time to transport pets, do property inspections, answer emails, put up profiles, contact pounds, deal with surrenders, and yes look through unsuitable adoption forms that state they love wolves or always wanted a dog like demon from snow dogs. (We have plenty of those here but im.sure the real.demon came with free chewed up furniture, broken phones, pulled clothes from the lines, high prey drive. sadly none of our dogs as of yet sunbake on sun lounges drinking Margheritas )

So my advice for when you see a dog you want saved .

  • Try and get incontact with a rescue and offer a pledge or sponsor the dog or some assistance of some kind.. Organise a fundraiser using any free fundraising website and add up all the fees it costs to save a dog.
  • Cant afford it then offer to foster care. You do not have to foster that particular dog, but one out of the kennel leaves a free spot for another to come in.
  • Share posts and follow up. Many times i see people rallying behind a dog while its in the pound, but forgotten once its safe in rescue. Does he no longer deserve your support simply because he is safe.
  • Offer yourself as a volunteer for transport, property inspections etc.
  • Share existing dogs available for adoption. Put up signs, get a coin jar and raise funds at work, doing fundraisers or.morning teas or make up parties etc to raise funds. So the next dog on the pts list has a chance.
  • Donate food beds blankets old towels balls clam pools leads collars harnnesses etc

There are many ways of assisting to save a dog.

I am saddened by the amount of times i see people going on about a dog in the pound on the day its due to be put to sleep and putting rescues down yet never once dig into their own pockets. When most rescues are completely strung up right now and at full capacity.

Caring for so many dogs is costly. Thats the bottom line. Ongoing vet checks, constant worming, tick preventions, kenneling etc its an ongoing weight on rescues pockets and some dogs have been in rescues for over 2 years with no adoption offers. Yet rescues still pay for all their necessities, but sadly they are now forgotten by the same people who rallied behind them when they were on the pts list. .

I mean to offend no one and please understand I am fully behind getting together to save an animal. But sadly i have also come to the opinion that talk is cheap and action speaks louder than words.

Please act to save a poundie. I hope this helps give you a greater understanding of just a tad of the work that goes behind saving a dog.

re your criticism of my involvement: See #17. I did go to the pound to find out what was happening and I did speak with one of the rangers and I have reported here what I was told. This issue had already been raised and asked about in the Urgent forum where it went unanswered but that is the norm for those threads. Questions are never answered. People even offered donations to help this girl but from memory they were not acknowledged. I started this thread to draw attention to that girl's situation and to try to help her and other dogs in similar situations. I am not sure exactly how else I am to find out if that dog is safe.

eta If reading this thread was a waste of time no-one asked you to read it.

I wouldn't say that post 17 was particularly clear with regards to your actions, I can't tell if you called to check if she was in yard 1 or just walked past the yard yourself.

either way how this goes to helping her predicament I don't know.

Also the urgent forum is not for people to ask questions it's to alert rescues or adopters to dog pending PTS or needing critical care in case anyone can help, these lists are not always put together by people who work in the pound. If you want your questions answered you need to go to the source

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Sars has made it clear she was raising an issue that concerns her with regard to dogs in pounds in general and that this particular girl is the example that triggered her concern. It IS an issue worth considering and most of the people in this thread aren't in Canberra so may consider the issue in the context of their local pound or shelter, as may those who read the thread. It is not only a DAS issue, and Sars never said it was.

I think it has also highlighted another issue around engagement between those directly involved in animal welfare/rescue and the wider community.

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gwp4me   

re your criticism of my involvement: See #17. I did go to the pound to find out what was happening and I did speak with one of the rangers and I have reported here what I was told. This issue had already been raised and asked about in the Urgent forum where it went unanswered but that is the norm for those threads. Questions are never answered. People even offered donations to help this girl but from memory they were not acknowledged. I started this thread to draw attention to that girl's situation and to try to help her and other dogs in similar situations. I am not sure exactly how else I am to find out if that dog is safe.

eta If reading this thread was a waste of time no-one asked you to read it.

Sars, you are very observant, and mean well. :) What worries me, is that questions often are not getting answered. And pledges are not acknowledged (poundhound's pledge was - with this girl, but mine was ignored). Pledges are not being carried over with a dog - for whom it was made, when a new thread has started, lowering the chances of rehoming - for this particular dog. I am sure the overburdened rescue community, will not have the time to go back to sift through old threads. Pledges could kindly be added, next to a dog's write up. Anyhow, the mum from Yard 1 still has a current $150 pledge standing.

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tdierikx   

In a perfect world no dog would give birth in a pound... and even better, there would be no need for pounds at all... but we don't live in a perfect world... *sigh*

Pounds (and the RSPCA/AWL/etc) have a limited amount of space to hold animals that come in. Some pounds will hold over dogs for far longer than their legal impound time, and try their hardest to give them time to be adopted or taken in by rescues. When they are full, they are full... and that means that the dogs that have been there the longest, or are deemed unsuitable for adoption, will not necessarily make it out of there alive. This is the reality.

Many pounds don't have the world's largest kennels - and many don't have exercise areas to get the animals out of the kennels either.

Rescues are stretched to the limit also - foster carers need to have a break now and then or risk burn out (been there, done that, not pleasant!) - funding can be an issue - time, and other resources are other general issues that rescues have to find on a regular basis.

Some animals may be perfectly lovely with people, but not so great with other dogs - some may need extensive medical treatment before being able to be adopted out - all will need enough time in care with a rescue for said rescue people to know that animal well enough to advertise for the right home for it. Then they have the fun task of screening the applications to find that perfect home...

As for this particular dog... I'm sure that rescue was aware of her plight, and for whatever reason, she was not an easy one to take on (there was mention that she wasn't overly fussed on other dogs?). I'm sure that DAS staff were highly attentive to her pregnancy needs, and did their utmost to make it easier on her given the situation she'd found herself in... not sure what more they could really have done?

Anyways... that's my 2c worth on the matter... *grin*

T.

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Sars, you are very observant, and mean well. :) What worries me, is that questions often are not getting answered. And pledges are not acknowledged (poundhound's pledge was - with this girl, but mine was ignored). Pledges are not being carried over with a dog - for whom it was made, when a new thread has started, lowering the chances of rehoming - for this particular dog. I am sure the overburdened rescue community, will not have the time to go back to sift through old threads. Pledges could kindly be added, next to a dog's write up. Anyhow, the mum from Yard 1 still has a current $150 pledge standing.

Ok, now I'm confused :confused: Yd 1 has been adopted, so the pledge has fallen off, so to speak, right? Now the only question (for me anyway) is: should I move the pledge on to Yd 4 (the oldest dog on the DAS website at the moment), or should I watch and wait 'till next week - since at the moment there are 19 dogs listed, and 3 have deposits - or should I save my pledge for the young pup when/if he goes back to DAS? Interesting to know, from the reposted Facebook message, that the average rescue costs roughly $300... My pledges rarely exceed $50, which I guess is better than nothing, but nowhere near enough to rescue a single dog.

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gwp4me   

Sars, you are very observant, and mean well. :) What worries me, is that questions often are not getting answered. And pledges are not acknowledged (poundhound's pledge was - with this girl, but mine was ignored). Pledges are not being carried over with a dog - for whom it was made, when a new thread has started, lowering the chances of rehoming - for this particular dog. I am sure the overburdened rescue community, will not have the time to go back to sift through old threads. Pledges could kindly be added, next to a dog's write up. Anyhow, the mum from Yard 1 still has a current $150 pledge standing.

Ok, now I'm confused :confused: Yd 1 has been adopted, so the pledge has fallen off, so to speak, right? Now the only question (for me anyway) is: should I move the pledge on to Yd 4 (the oldest dog on the DAS website at the moment), or should I watch and wait 'till next week - since at the moment there are 19 dogs listed, and 3 have deposits - or should I save my pledge for the young pup when/if he goes back to DAS? Interesting to know, from the reposted Facebook message, that the average rescue costs roughly $300... My pledges rarely exceed $50, which I guess is better than nothing, but nowhere near enough to rescue a single dog.

poundhound, going through all posts, it seems the mum is safe, somehere in a private home. Assuming, she does not need our pledges to help her out. The latest two urgent dogs got an extension of time, till next week. The little puppy might be returned to the pound at a later date. :noidea:

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Another dog has given birth in a pound (Gilgandra Shire Pound). She seems to be a lovely dog. It doesn't say what happened to her pup but mum is back in the pound looking for a home.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/265532-gilgandra-shire-pound/page__pid__6781897#entry6781897

G214/15: “Bidda” – Roan Mastiff x Pointer, female, over 5 years old. Bidda has been with Council since 28 September 2015. She was put into foster care after she gave birth to a puppy in the pound. Bidda is now looking for a home. She has basic obedience, loves fetching toys, gets along great with people (but not necessarily other dogs). She appears to have had a tough previous life and is looking for somewhere with secure fencing to live out the rest of her life with lots of love. Bidda’s teeth are quite worn down, so appropriate dietary requirements will be needed.

post-52367-0-73527000-1454882346_thumb.jpg

post-52367-0-75901100-1454882376_thumb.jpg

post-52367-0-97987000-1454882432_thumb.jpg

Edited by sarspididious

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It is always going to happen, Sarse. Don’t forget, pound staff are not always terribly well versed in animal behaviours or needs. I remember collecting a dog from a pound in Sydney to take to rescue and at the time, the pound staff said she’d “obviously” give birth approx 6 weeks previously.

She gave birth to four (I think) puppies that night :eek: :eek:

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DDD Don't say 'always' because I want it to stop. :) People are becoming so aware of the needs of women and children (demonstrations over the weekend) and I would love to see that extended to bitches and their pups in pounds (detention?). Oh Yeah I know I am a dreamer but we have to start somewhere. :) That Gilgandra bitch looks gorgeous though. I hope she finds a beautiful home.

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trifecta   
pound staff are not always terribly well versed in animal behaviours or needs.

This is an inflammatory statement in regard to Gilgandra pound, in my opinion. The bitch was placed in foster care to raise her puppy.... presumably the puppy has already been rehomed..... pups do afterall rehome more quickly than older bitches with worn down teeth. At the time of posting (January 12th) Bidda was being given a chance to be adopted..... she had been property of the pound since late September. She could have been euthanised along with her pup and never given a chance. Remember you are talking about a country pound with limited resources, LGAs in rural NSW are hardly flush with funds; what's more this is a new pound to rescue on DOL.... how about giving them some support for going beyond their duty and striving for a good outcome for this bitch and her pup? Incidentally Bidda is now safe instead of dead.

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pound staff are not always terribly well versed in animal behaviours or needs.

This is an inflammatory statement in regard to Gilgandra pound, in my opinion.

It was a general statement and it is true of many pounds. I know nothing of Gilgandra and it is obvious that I was not aiming my statement at Gilgandra. But if you want to jump up and down and read into my post something that wasn’t there, go right ahead. Gilgandra sounds exceptional and that is wonderful, but remarks like yours above don’t do them any favours. All you needed to say, that, fortunately Gilgandra is an exception, etc etc etc. :shrug::shrug:

Edited by Dame Danny's Darling

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Trifecta I know nothing about Gilgandra pound other than what was on DOL and I saw later that the bitch was safe which is fantastic and it's great that she went to a foster carer once the pup was born. I am not attacking this pound especially, and neither is DDD. Why are some posters so defensive about this topic and so quick to label other posters' posts as inflammatory. Why so sensitive?

DDD is right that many pound staff are not chosen because of their knowledge of dogs. They should receive basic training in dog management and know if a bitch is about to give birth. Pound staff are public servants and they just follow the rules and they are answerable if they don't. The rules need to change. I am not attacking pound staff in this thread. It is their bosses that need to do some rethinking. Governments (both local and state) need to show more compassion and we the voters (who are their bosses) need to tell them that is what we expect.

Trifecta as an advanced western society bitches in advanced whelp should not be euthanised. They are carrying another life. I also don't want bitches giving birth in pounds to be thought acceptable any more. I have read some time ago on DOL about bitches giving birth in pounds and all the pups died because of the cold. I think that is callous and cruel and that is what I want to stop. I want pregnant bitches to be cared for sensitively and for a pup's first experience of life to be positive. Maybe I am an idealist or a crazy dog lover but I hope fellow DOLers at least understand the latter.

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trifecta   
Why are some posters so defensive about this topic and so quick to label other posters' posts as inflammatory. Why so sensitive?

Because it can take many months, even years, of negotiation to get councils to agree to work with rescue organisations and to allow their rangers to put dogs up for rescue on sites such as DOL and Facebook.

I have seen it happen so often on DOL where the efforts of dedicated and caring volunteers working their butts off in the background to persuade councils to come on board with better welfare practices, all come to nothing due to posts criticising council practices.

Unfortunately it's all about money. The majority of ratepayers in a rural LGA couldn't give a toss about what happens to stray and unwanted dogs, or at least they care more about having their bridge repaired or the potholes filled in on their roads far more than a pregnant bitch. You and I are not of this opinion, which is why we are on this forum, but councils just aren't being squeezed, they are in the vice like grip of the State Government which is trying to do away with a lot of them (in NSW).

I totally agree the topic warrants discussion, but it should be done without referring to specific cases and finger pointing at individual pounds.

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Why are some posters so defensive about this topic and so quick to label other posters' posts as inflammatory. Why so sensitive?

Because it can take many months, even years, of negotiation to get councils to agree to work with rescue organisations and to allow their rangers to put dogs up for rescue on sites such as DOL and Facebook.

I have seen it happen so often on DOL where the efforts of dedicated and caring volunteers working their butts off in the background to persuade councils to come on board with better welfare practices, all come to nothing due to posts criticising council practices.

Unfortunately it's all about money. The majority of ratepayers in a rural LGA couldn't give a toss about what happens to stray and unwanted dogs, or at least they care more about having their bridge repaired or the potholes filled in on their roads far more than a pregnant bitch. You and I are not of this opinion, which is why we are on this forum, but councils just aren't being squeezed, they are in the vice like grip of the State Government which is trying to do away with a lot of them (in NSW).

I totally agree the topic warrants discussion, but it should be done without referring to specific cases and finger pointing at individual pounds.

Thank you, message taken on board. :)

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The majority of ratepayers in a rural LGA couldn't give a toss about what happens to stray and unwanted dogs, ......

And this is one of the myths about dogs in pounds. The vast majority of dogs (at least in towns and cities) in pounds are your neighbour’s dog who is lost. And probably most of those who don’t give a toss would sure give a toss if their dog ended up in a pound.

Sure there are some unwanted and dumped, but those are in the minority.

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Trifecta I know nothing about Gilgandra pound other than what was on DOL and I saw later that the bitch was safe which is fantastic and it's great that she went to a foster carer once the pup was born. I am not attacking this pound especially, and neither is DDD. Why are some posters so defensive about this topic and so quick to label other posters' posts as inflammatory. Why so sensitive?

DDD is right that many pound staff are not chosen because of their knowledge of dogs. They should receive basic training in dog management and know if a bitch is about to give birth. Pound staff are public servants and they just follow the rules and they are answerable if they don't. The rules need to change. I am not attacking pound staff in this thread. It is their bosses that need to do some rethinking. Governments (both local and state) need to show more compassion and we the voters (who are their bosses) need to tell them that is what we expect.

Trifecta as an advanced western society bitches in advanced whelp should not be euthanised. They are carrying another life. I also don't want bitches giving birth in pounds to be thought acceptable any more. I have read some time ago on DOL about bitches giving birth in pounds and all the pups died because of the cold. I think that is callous and cruel and that is what I want to stop. I want pregnant bitches to be cared for sensitively and for a pup's first experience of life to be positive. Maybe I am an idealist or a crazy dog lover but I hope fellow DOLers at least understand the latter.

Not referring to a particular pound.

Rural/Country pounds are so different to what we get used to.

The 'Pound Staff' aren't actually there all day as their job. They are out doing dozens of different ranger type jobs like inspections and fines, and everything else the LGA has them employed to do that isn't animal related.

It has to be remembered that even getting reliable volunteers who go in a couple of times a week to do photos and temp tests can be impossible. Leaving it to the rangers who are pretty much allotted enough time to clean, feed and do a few inquiries/reclaims/surrenders/stray processing then take off again.

I'm not being derogatory, it's just that when trifecta says ratepayers couldn't give a toss; that is reflected in what we know as fact. And what takes years to turn around.

* Adoption and reclaim rates can be abysmal.

* Council funding ... may extend as far as putting a sign up.

* Community motivation; nil. Related to the next point maybe?

* Socio-economic situation; grim. Put petrol in the car and feed the kids or reclaim the undesexed, unchipped, unregistered dog when you can always get another freebie later anyway after the neighbour's bull arab has another 12 pups. Sounds bad but that's the way it is. And that's why out-of-area rescues are sourced through public listing like DOL. And yes, dogs will still be euthanised which seems to astound people watching from their laptop.

The one positive is that with stats and awareness gradually leaving some pounds in need of less rescue assistance, other pounds can be helped. :) But they are new, and wary. And aren't paid to put up with getting savaged on the internet. (Acknowledging that this thread is very mild in comparison to what I've seen before)

Edited by Powerlegs

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trifecta   

The majority of ratepayers in a rural LGA couldn't give a toss about what happens to stray and unwanted dogs, ......

And this is one of the myths about dogs in pounds. The vast majority of dogs (at least in towns and cities) in pounds are your neighbour’s dog who is lost. And probably most of those who don’t give a toss would sure give a toss if their dog ended up in a pound.

Sure there are some unwanted and dumped, but those are in the minority.

I haven't seen any figures, but I would be interested to find out if surrenders now outnumber unclaimed stray dogs due to the increase in microchipping. I know not all people follow the law and there are still unchipped animals out there and many whose details are not current, but from following the pounds in my area, it seems to me that surrenders now make up over 50% of impoundees at any given time, and moreover at certain times, surrenders are definitely in the majority.

ETA Sorry this was off topic, but just a thought provoked by DDD's post.

Edited by trifecta

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Trifecta I know nothing about Gilgandra pound other than what was on DOL and I saw later that the bitch was safe which is fantastic and it's great that she went to a foster carer once the pup was born. I am not attacking this pound especially, and neither is DDD. Why are some posters so defensive about this topic and so quick to label other posters' posts as inflammatory. Why so sensitive?

DDD is right that many pound staff are not chosen because of their knowledge of dogs. They should receive basic training in dog management and know if a bitch is about to give birth. Pound staff are public servants and they just follow the rules and they are answerable if they don't. The rules need to change. I am not attacking pound staff in this thread. It is their bosses that need to do some rethinking. Governments (both local and state) need to show more compassion and we the voters (who are their bosses) need to tell them that is what we expect.

Trifecta as an advanced western society bitches in advanced whelp should not be euthanised. They are carrying another life. I also don't want bitches giving birth in pounds to be thought acceptable any more. I have read some time ago on DOL about bitches giving birth in pounds and all the pups died because of the cold. I think that is callous and cruel and that is what I want to stop. I want pregnant bitches to be cared for sensitively and for a pup's first experience of life to be positive. Maybe I am an idealist or a crazy dog lover but I hope fellow DOLers at least understand the latter.

Not referring to a particular pound.

Rural/Country pounds are so different to what we get used to.

The 'Pound Staff' aren't actually there all day as their job. They are out doing dozens of different ranger type jobs like inspections and fines, and everything else the LGA has them employed to do that isn't animal related.

It has to be remembered that even getting reliable volunteers who go in a couple of times a week to do photos and temp tests can be impossible. Leaving it to the rangers who are pretty much allotted enough time to clean, feed and do a few inquiries/reclaims/surrenders/stray processing then take off again.

I'm not being derogatory, it's just that when trifecta says ratepayers couldn't give a toss; that is reflected in what we know as fact. And what takes years to turn around.

* Adoption and reclaim rates can be abysmal.

* Council funding ... may extend as far as putting a sign up.

* Community motivation; nil. Related to the next point maybe?

* Socio-economic situation; grim. Put petrol in the car and feed the kids or reclaim the undesexed, unchipped, unregistered dog when you can always get another freebie later anyway after the neighbour's bull arab has another 12 pups. Sounds bad but that's the way it is. And that's why out-of-area rescues are sourced through public listing like DOL. And yes, dogs will still be euthanised which seems to astound people watching from their laptop.

The one positive is that with stats and awareness gradually leaving some pounds in need of less rescue assistance, other pounds can be helped. :) But they are new, and wary. And aren't paid to put up with getting savaged on the internet. (Acknowledging that this thread is very mild in comparison to what I've seen before)

I know you have said that is not what you mean and thus covered yourself but I am not 'savaging' anyone and I find the suggestion offensive.

The newborn pups who died from the cold were at a pound in Sydney, not a country pound. I don't remember which one (perhaps somebody else can) but it has always haunted me.

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Not referring to a particular pound.

The one positive is that with stats and awareness gradually leaving some pounds in need of less rescue assistance, other pounds can be helped. :) But they are new, and wary. And aren't paid to put up with getting savaged on the internet. (Acknowledging that this thread is very mild in comparison to what I've seen before)

I know you have said that is not what you mean and thus covered yourself but I am not 'savaging' anyone and I find the suggestion offensive.

The newborn pups who died from the cold were at a pound in Sydney, not a country pound. I don't remember which one (perhaps somebody else can) but it has always haunted me.

For god's sake settle down.

I stated this thread is mild and it is, so if you're going to dish out criticism and concerns in one direction, put a hold on the dramatic.

I took the time to reply gently to your post - because taking drastic offence where there was none seemed a common theme with your previous forum profile- and have been dismissed without acknowledgement that you are holding newly networked rural pounds to city standards. And that you need to exercise judgement and discretion.

I suggest you do something tangible for all the whelping bitches rather than decide that everyone else needs to find an answer. Take a step back and think about what pound staff and rescuers find 'offensive' as well once you've given it a red hot go at something constructive.

We're all haunted, it's what pushes forward change.

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