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kamuzz

How To Teach An Ex Show Dog To Sit

56 posts in this topic

huski   

I only ever train a drop from a stand, even with pups, as I train a fold back down so it is definitely doable - if you search YouTube for fold back down videos you'll probably find some.

If luring the treat is making him raise his front paws you don't have the treat in the correct position. Maybe you could post a video so we can see what you are doing :)

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Hi Helen,

They are a breed we have had for over 30 years. Very easy to train using motivational methods. Very easy to ruin if any harshness or çorrections given. They can be very birdy which is what they were bred for. We have found the girls are more birdy than the boys and the boys have always been the best lap dogs ever! Coats vary. Our blue beltons had much heavier coats than our lemons/oranges. A couple of good grooming sessions a week and a daily check for prickles and burrs etc is needed. Show prep is a lot more. Now only showing a male neuter (who also has his championship). Happy to give you more information but can't figure out how to share my details with you.

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It is more like he has been taught not to sit. Also possibly been taught to not follow the treat, but to stand and look pretty instead. To plant his feet but show expression.

This sounds likely JulesP!

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mita   

I've had rescue dogs in my classes that simply would not lure a drop. So I asked the owners to go home, keep awesome treats in their pockets or in tiny containers around the house and mark "yes" and PARTY when the dog lay down of its own accord (capturing)

Yes. That's also a behaviour management technique used with young children. Observe them carefully or even set up a situation where they're likely to do some specific thing of their own accord.... & promptly praise/reward.

Edited by mita

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skip   

Great tips. This question just makes me recall a recent experience with a dog at our club. When the owner said the dog can't sit I had to see what was happening. The Basingi did sit twice for a visible treat but it took so long. I assumed it was the dog, taking in the breed type and thinking how slow he was to respond. Compared to most dogs, even a puppy, he took forever.

Only then did the owner tell me it was a show dog taught to stack. So it did still work but the dog has a lot of thinking to do.

Good luck!

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Steph M   

We had the best ES as kids, an Ambershah dog. I'd have another in a heartbeat, not long ago I messaged his breeder as she no longer breeds but she did offer to point me in the direction of who uses her old lines etc. I was sorely tempted, haha.

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angelsun   

Sitting won't enhance his quality of life but stressing him out to sit, most definately will. It's not an important thing inspite of some people thinking a dog must sit on command to be a decent dog.

(owner of show dogs that don't learn the s-i-t word)

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Willem   

Sitting won't enhance his quality of life but stressing him out to sit, most definately will. It's not an important thing inspite of some people thinking a dog must sit on command to be a decent dog.

(owner of show dogs that don't learn the s-i-t word)

maybe a little bit stress for the dog to learn (should only be fun for the dog with the right approach), but more quality of life for the owner as he has to stress less when walking the dog, or visiting the vet etc.?...I feel much more relaxed when I know my dog drops, sits and stands on command and when I know I can call her off from chasing birds and cats while walking her.

It might not be important for everyone, but for some dog owners it is.

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Steph M   

Sitting won't enhance his quality of life but stressing him out to sit, most definately will. It's not an important thing inspite of some people thinking a dog must sit on command to be a decent dog.

(owner of show dogs that don't learn the s-i-t word)

OP has stated they wish to go down the pets as therapy route, and therefore this is important unfortunately.

None of the methods suggested sound stressful to me, I wish someone threw chocolate at me for doing things they like! Haha.

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JulesP   

The thing is you aren't just teaching the dog to do something new, like a totally untrained dog. You are teaching him to do something he has been taught not to do. So there is possibility for stress.

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Rebanne   

Sitting won't enhance his quality of life but stressing him out to sit, most definately will. It's not an important thing inspite of some people thinking a dog must sit on command to be a decent dog.

(owner of show dogs that don't learn the s-i-t word)

OP has stated they wish to go down the pets as therapy route, and therefore this is important unfortunately.

None of the methods suggested sound stressful to me, I wish someone threw chocolate at me for doing things they like! Haha.

I think it has been very stressful as the owners have not managed in 2 years to teach this dog to sit. Pets as Therapy as a goal is all well and good but not if the dog is stressed out.

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huski   

There is stress in all learning, and stress doesn't automatically = a bad thing. In this case the trouble is most likely caused by the dog not being clear on what the owner wants him to do, not that being trained to sit itself is stressful. It's not like they want him to learn to do a complex task. I would guess this is more handler error (no intended offense OP) than the dog being too stressed to learn.

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1. Get his hips checked. A dog that reluctant to sit might well have a good reason for it.

2. Whatever you've been doing isn't working. You need to find another way to approach the issue. The first thing I'd do is go hands off. Luring usually works and I also wonder if technique is the problem. SLOW DOWN THE LURE. You want the dog's head to tilt back, not for him to do gopher impressions to get to it. Put the food just out of reach and back over the dog's head, not raise it higher. You want him to raise his muzzle up and back - that should put put pressure on him to drop his bum. Do not use a cue until the dog can reliably sit when lured.

3. You don't have to be in front of the dog for this. if he can stand beside you, you can lure from there.

4. You basically train a show dog to do something the way you'd train any other dog. Unless he's been corrected for sitting (which is possible), in which case it may take longer - if that is the case, find another place to do it and don't do it with the dog on lead. Point 3 may help.

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I don't have much to add - except when I got Scottie from the shelter he was a little shit.

We found a good trainer - my first words to her were "I dont think he speaks english" he was sitting for her within 5 minutes. Me? Nothing for the first 3 weeks he's lived with me. 12 months later we had a good laugh at that.

Maybe you need to find someone to help you face to face. Even in the short term.

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kamuzz   

This is one of the many reasons I love DOL - always plenty of helpful suggestions and advice.

Many people have suggested he isn't clicking with my methods, and I agree the owner is usually the problem. I speak fairly fluent German Shepherd, but my English Setter clearly isn't up to scratch. (For example, setterspan made the point never to use force with a setter)

One of the reasons he can't sit after two years is that I haven't pushed the point as I felt what I was doing wasn't helpful.

When possible I will get someone to video me trying to lure him and post it here for some more feedback.

Haredown, I also wondered about his hips. Even the best breeders can have an "off" pup. But the vet dismissed this because he does sometimes sit in his natural day to day life. She tried to get him to sit and basically said "Typical show dog - he has been taught NOT to sit". (Marilyn breeds working Springers for Quarantine and is generally pretty sensible.)

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anniek   

Sitting won't enhance his quality of life but stressing him out to sit, most definately will. It's not an important thing inspite of some people thinking a dog must sit on command to be a decent dog.

(owner of show dogs that don't learn the s-i-t word)

OP has stated they wish to go down the pets as therapy route, and therefore this is important unfortunately.

None of the methods suggested sound stressful to me, I wish someone threw chocolate at me for doing things they like! Haha.

I think it has been very stressful as the owners have not managed in 2 years to teach this dog to sit. Pets as Therapy as a goal is all well and good but not if the dog is stressed out.

I am pretty sure there are a couple of well behaved but non sitting greyhounds that have trained and passed as therapy dogs

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helen   

Hi Helen,

They are a breed we have had for over 30 years. Very easy to train using motivational methods. Very easy to ruin if any harshness or çorrections given. They can be very birdy which is what they were bred for. We have found the girls are more birdy than the boys and the boys have always been the best lap dogs ever! Coats vary. Our blue beltons had much heavier coats than our lemons/oranges. A couple of good grooming sessions a week and a daily check for prickles and burrs etc is needed. Show prep is a lot more. Now only showing a male neuter (who also has his championship). Happy to give you more information but can't figure out how to share my details with you.

Thanks Setterspan. I would love it if you could send me an email to [email protected]

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helen   

Showdog doesn't need to mean untrained or can't do anything, although it seems to be a perception :-)

My old girl who has passed away now had CD and agility titles. The only time she sat was when I asked her to, her natural thing was to either stand or drop, some dogs just don't like it. There was nothing physically stopping her from doing it

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1. Get his hips checked. A dog that reluctant to sit might well have a good reason for it.

2. Whatever you've been doing isn't working. You need to find another way to approach the issue. The first thing I'd do is go hands off. Luring usually works and I also wonder if technique is the problem. SLOW DOWN THE LURE. You want the dog's head to tilt back, not for him to do gopher impressions to get to it. Put the food just out of reach and back over the dog's head, not raise it higher. You want him to raise his muzzle up and back - that should put put pressure on him to drop his bum. Do not use a cue until the dog can reliably sit when lured.

3. You don't have to be in front of the dog for this. if he can stand beside you, you can lure from there.

4. You basically train a show dog to do something the way you'd train any other dog. Unless he's been corrected for sitting (which is possible), in which case it may take longer - if that is the case, find another place to do it and don't do it with the dog on lead. Point 3 may help.

And, as a certain, very literal, dog taught me, change your command, "sit" might have bad vibes, words are just noises to dogs, you might find a new word along with techniques suggested here, works............you could even train to a signal (usually develops from luring action) and bring the verbal in later

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sas   

Our English Setter is a failed show dog. He failed at showing after about 18 months. And even though we've had him for nearly two years, we still haven't managed to teach him to sit.

Applying pressure to his hindquarters makes him lock his knees.

Luring his head up produces a meerkat impersonation.

Making a fuss of him on the rare occasion when he happens to sit hasn't achieved anything.

He gets stressed if we use a two person approach and "collapse" him into a sit by pushing his knees in while the other person lures. (Bit hard to explain.)

Suggestions please?

Hi, have you considered this is perhaps a physical weakness problem vs an obedience one. Many a show dog sit.

I personally wouldn't push him down because that goes against your show training, so instead use treats to lure him into a sit and watch the level of your hand that is perhaps forcing him into a Meercat position. I think you're not too far from me, you're welcome to pop by.

Edited by sas

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