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Item About Victoria Stilwell

113 posts in this topic

Snook   

.... as an example of her being as unethical as Cesar Millan

...so where do you take your examples that he is unethical conversely to her????

I think putting the pigs in a situation where they could be attacked, and letting a dog with a history of attacking, off leash and muzzle free with them is unethical. I think tightening the collar on dogs until they can't fight back and give up/shut down is unethical. I think provoking dogs to get them to react badly or attack so that you can punish the behaviour is unethical. I'm sure I don't need to keep going..

the dog in the helicopter definitely had a attack history (he was trained to do this!), muzzle free, off leash...she - according to her teaching on her website - is an expert in avoiding dog bites, still she did not only nothing to prevent the bite, but contributed heavily to it via her stupid behaviour - well, according to your standards I call this 'unethical' too.

There's a difference between being trained to attack and attacking at will and she put herself at risk, not another person or animal. You must be quite the Cesar fan to try and make that kind of stretch to suggest the situations were similar in terms of ethics.

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Willem   

.... as an example of her being as unethical as Cesar Millan

...so where do you take your examples that he is unethical conversely to her????

I think putting the pigs in a situation where they could be attacked, and letting a dog with a history of attacking, off leash and muzzle free with them is unethical. I think tightening the collar on dogs until they can't fight back and give up/shut down is unethical. I think provoking dogs to get them to react badly or attack so that you can punish the behaviour is unethical. I'm sure I don't need to keep going..

the dog in the helicopter definitely had a attack history (he was trained to do this!), muzzle free, off leash...she - according to her teaching on her website - is an expert in avoiding dog bites, still she did not only nothing to prevent the bite, but contributed heavily to it via her stupid behaviour - well, according to your standards I call this 'unethical' too.

There's a difference between being trained to attack and attacking at will and she put herself at risk, not another person or animal. You must be quite the Cesar fan to try and make that kind of stretch to suggest the situations were similar in terms of ethics.

...if she would have assessed the situation she could have easily asked for a muzzle...that she got bitten, well, I guess that's really her and the handlers fault, but don't forget that - with all the noise of the helicopter, plus she likely screaming, a simple 'out' from the handler was likely not enough and it would have taken some serious force (...aversive methods...) to pull the dog back. Luckily it was only her who got injured, but, with such an attitude and lack of skills to assess such scenarios properly she puts others in danger too, e.g.:

Edited by Willem

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OSoSwift   

From what I have read she put herself in a stupid position, wouldn't listen and wouldn't allow them to have prong or remote training collars on as she wanted people to think these dogs were positively trained only.

I think she is another with very little idea. I did research her a bit and yeh, didn't instill much faith that she has much idea what she is doing

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Lhok   

Again that video is bias, and is posted by someone who has an axe to grind again Stilwell. As from the comments are all mostly about how Cesar is amazing etc etc.

I don't know how you are suppose to assess behaviour without seeing first hand what is going on without interruption.

As the person who posted the video comments on a post with this:

"starwarssuck1 year ago

+Andrea Bright , Holly and "positive" fanatics, you and your supposed "science based training" is 90% shit loaded... if you were truly objective perhaps you would realize that Fact.

But your Hate for some one so much better than any of you, when comes to understand and solve dog behaviour issues blind you, pathetic Pigeons."

And in the description is this:

"Uploaded on Jul 21, 2011

Victoria Stillwell proves once more how Incompetent and Ridiculous she really is, First, she allow to the dog escalate the behaviour and the child gets bitten by the dog.

And then all what she did was scream - in one of her ridiculous way - to the dog:

- "Nougthy boooooy!"

5 minutes later.... when the "punishment" should be applied btw 1 and 2 secs after the behaviour...

Yeah Victoria, the dog did understand you perfectly.... "

As to the incident, unless you plan for absolutely everything (near impossible) it was an accident.

--Lhok

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RubyStar   

Sure it would hurt like hell... but she ain't getting any sympathy from me for putting herself in that situation. As a self professed elite dog trainer, she really should have had at least an inkling that shit could go to hell in a handbasket in a noisy confined space with strange people around. And it could have been a whole lot worse...

T.

Sheesh, she's still human, though! Shit still happens even to the best of us.

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I still don't understand the scenario.

Was the police dog being sent into the helicopter to extract a 'bad guy' (wearing a bite suit) or

Was the dog being sent into the helicopter to practice travelling to a job (in which case SOP should have required the dog to be muzzled)?

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Willem   

I still don't understand the scenario.

Was the police dog being sent into the helicopter to extract a 'bad guy' (wearing a bite suit) or

Was the dog being sent into the helicopter to practice travelling to a job (in which case SOP should have required the dog to be muzzled)?

...I guess it was similar like this: http://www.abc.net.au/local/videos/2012/10/17/3612730.htm ...in this clip the handler kept the dog on the leash, but I also read that it is standard to use muzzles for transport in planes / helicopters.

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in this clip the handler kept the dog on the leash

The story mentioned the dogs being "cadaver dogs" - as opposed to arrest dogs...

But I think any dog that is super excited about being around the helicopter might do something unexpected.

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Dewclaws   

To me it just sounds like an overstimulated dog in a new situation that was very reactive . All involved judged the dog wrong .

I think her original message was harsh to judge the handler , but I imagine she was in pain and shock and probably thought they should have known their dog better .

But she has apologised .

She has also acknowledged these are working dogs , so the training and temperament is going to be quite different to fido down the street . I think her biggest mistake was to treat this dog like fido down the street .

Harsh lesson for her, harsh lesson for the handler .

Ultimately a storm in a teacup because she seems to be happy to accept it as a learning experience .

The end .

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Willem   

From what I have read she put herself in a stupid position, wouldn't listen and wouldn't allow them to have prong or remote training collars on as she wanted people to think these dogs were positively trained only.

I think she is another with very little idea. I did research her a bit and yeh, didn't instill much faith that she has much idea what she is doing

...you must admit her choice of working boots when walking / training dogs is second to none :D (maybe people would take her more serious as a dog trainer when she would wear at least footwear suitable for the job and if she would get her hands dirty...)

...and yes, it is pretty hard to find something on her site that has some value regarding dog training: lots of words, but at the end it comes down to copies, general phrases, links to other sites ...wasted my time there...

Edited by Willem

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Purdie   

What did she actually do wrong? Trust the handlers and trainers when she shouldn't have? If handlers and trainers told me it was safe to sit in the helicopter I probably would have believed them too. I might have then looked at the revved up police dog and thought 'oh shit' but it would have been too late then.

She isn't a police dog trainer. From watching her shows (and I did watch quite a lot) I can't even recall a heap of aggressive dog problems. It was things like dog pulling on the lead or counter surfing. Just pet problem stuff. I can't remember her ever saying that a dog should be put down I quite liked her and her boots :laugh: Oh and she had her own dog training business before the TV show.

A sensible post.

The poor woman was bitten and i am sure she was frightened and is in pain.I am sure she is not the first dog trainer to be bitten; mistakes accidents can happen to anyone.

I watched her shows. She did not want to have dogs put down;there were a couple of dogs i thought it may have been the only option but she worked with the owners

to manage and contain their obviously well loved pets so they would never be a danger to anyone.

I like her and have one of her books,not that i agree with all her methods but she has helped a lot of people and dogs.

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Her biggest lapse of judgement was the original Facebook post.

She really should have known better, and you would expect a "celebrity" to understand the power of social media.

At least she apologized.

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megan_   

She posts on her popular blog that she's been bitten during a cocked up training session...and keeps going on about how much it hurts and how she's got to take painkillers, etc... then wonders why people are having a go at her stupidity. Surely this is not the first and only time she's ever been bitten by a dog?

Funnily enough,if this had happened with a pet dog she'd been asked to come help sort out, she'd be advising euthanasia... I've seen her show once or twice, and her attitude seems to be that if she can't sort whatever the issue is, then the dog in question should be put down... *sigh*

T.

The anti-positive training brigade have loved this incident. If you have a human aggressive dog and the issue can't be sorted out by a professional trainer in a short period of time then advising euthanasia *is* the responsible thing to do.

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raineth   

I don't understand how the anti-positive training brigade is seeing this as a win for them, as the dog that bit Stilwell wasn't trained by her? Presumably it was trained using correction collars and the like, as most police dogs are?

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JulesP   

And why would anyone be gloating that someone got bitten? I'm not a CM fan but I wouldn't want to see him chomped.

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Willem   

I don't understand how the anti-positive training brigade is seeing this as a win for them, as the dog that bit Stilwell wasn't trained by her? Presumably it was trained using correction collars and the like, as most police dogs are?

I can't see that this accident is linked in anyway to the adopted trainings methodology - whether the dog was 'positive only' trained or not, what difference would it have made?...it was wrong judgment of the setup from all the 'experts' involved, nothing to do with the trainings methodology.

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Here are two you tube clips showing a police k9 doing a vehicle extraction:

and
. To the dog that bit Victoria, the helicopter would have been just another vehicle.

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tdierikx   

And why would anyone be gloating that someone got bitten? I'm not a CM fan but I wouldn't want to see him chomped.

He gets chomped more often than he'll have anyone believe... lol! The wonderful power of editing only makes it seem like he never gets bitten...

T.

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