billbro Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) Jumabaar, thanks for the detailed reply. I've confirmed with our regular vet and she will be performing a 'Flo modification of de Angelis suture'. After some reading, I think the suture method might be acceptable given the size of my dog, but the concern will really be around ensuring we properly restrict/confine him. I think the problem with the diagnosis with our little guy, is that on the initial onset of some lameness there wasn't any movement of the knee when the drawer test was performed (maybe he was tense?). However on a subsequent follow up our regular vet felt that there was some movement - she referred us to the director of the clinic who is confident it is an issue. I've got another consultation booked tomorrow - it's with a Member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, so I'll see what they say. Also worth noting that if it is a CCL, I think scar tissue might have already started to develop as this initially occurred over the Anzac day long weekend - so it's been a number of weeks, as the CCL diagnosis wasn't until last weekend. He's been on metacam for weeks now, but I'm also concerned about that after doing more research... Edited June 20, 2016 by billbro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I would suggest you train the dog to be confined asap.If you plan to use a puppy pen then start training the dog to be happy in one . If you can hold off surgery for awhile it would be better to also condition the dog to how its going to have to live whilst recovering . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) My main experience with specialist vets has been at the Vet Specialist Centre, which is pretty much now SASH (Small Animal Specialist Hospital). http://www.sashvets.com/ I would recommend Andrew Marchevsky, he is a great surgeon and also a really nice guy :) He fixed up Diesel's leg when he broke it as a puppy (Diesel is now 12 1/2 years old), and also when Zoe was attacked by another dog. I also worked with him for a little while (I was an animal attendant there). Edited June 20, 2016 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbro Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Thanks for all the responses, I looked up SASH and ARH and I don't think we would have been able to afford either facilities out of our pockets. Following a second independent consult, we took our little guy into surgery this morning - he was freaking out on being left there, like we were freaking out leaving him. Didn't help that he slipped and splayed out on all 4s as the veterinary nurse took her around the back as they had just mopped the floor and it was wet... Thanks for all the advice, I'm concerned we haven't had any post-op discussions with our regular vet yet. However, since we are on a care plan, at least we can go for as many consults as needed after surgery. Also, both vets were of the opinion that De Angelis was sufficient given he is a small dog and anything else would be overkill (e.g. I was considering paying for an athroscope before anything else or TPLO, TTA, etc). Edited June 22, 2016 by billbro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 that was fast! I hope the surgeon is up to the job ..and that the rest & recuperation goes well . Looks like lots of wok ahead for you during recovery time . be aware!! Dogs jumping up /trying to get out of pens/crates can undo a lot of good work - hope your little one is calm :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) Regardless of the option you go with the important thing is the effort you put into rehabilitation. Rehabilitation can make or break the success of any operation or conservative care program and will lessen the chances of the dog tearing the other cruciate down the track (once one is torn the dog is at higher risk of tearing the other due to compensating for the first injury). I can highly recommend a consultation with Vet Jaime Jackson at Primal Paws in Sydney (as soon s you can) who can help you develop a post operative rehab program you can put into practice at home. Her consultation fees are very reasonable. I am currently conservatively managing a 10 year old Pyrenean who tore a cruciate over 12 months ago and is doing fantastically. With thanks to Jaime for setting up his initial rehab program. Edited June 22, 2016 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbro Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 that was fast! I hope the surgeon is up to the job ..and that the rest & recuperation goes well . Looks like lots of wok ahead for you during recovery time . be aware!! Dogs jumping up /trying to get out of pens/crates can undo a lot of good work - hope your little one is calm :) Ours definitely is not calm, we rushed around last night to buy additional items - e.g. blew a hole in my wallet buying a baby pen, bedding rails, etc. We already have a crate and a plastic play pen, but we had to ramp everything up. It's been a very costly couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbro Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 So I visited our little guy today and it's kind of heart reaching. The surgery sounded very successful, which is good news. However, I was told they had to perform a meniscal release and my brief bout of googling has made me somewhat concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I would definitely second getting a rehab appointment with Jaime/Primal Paws. She is awesome :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbro Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 Not sure if anyone can help me with the below, they weren't covered off in my discharge meeting and our regular vet is still off sick: 1. Are there any exercise/physiotherapy I should follow - as it's mentioned on a lot of veterinary websites online. Massaging is also mentioned, but he seems very tender even when brushing away hair from his incision. 2. Should I be using a cold compress over his leg? I know for human treatment the methodology has moved from RICE to MEAT. 3. Towel walking - is this recommended? Again I see a lot of reference to this online. 4. When should we expect him to start placing weight on his foot? I know you mentioned the longer he stays off it the better. 5. He has not opened his bowels today - do we need to be concerned/worried? He has only peed once today, but that might be because he hasn't been drinking a lot. I've emailed the vet director and our regular vet, so hopefully they get back to me tomorrow. We've got a post-op appointment in 3 days, so it might be covered off in that, but the sooner I know the more comfortable I'll be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascalmyshadow Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) When my old girl had her cruciates done we left her for the first 5 days, then we gently bent and stretched the leg a few times a day and took her for a 5 minute on lead walk as well, gradually we extended the distance and time. All of it was done at her pace and at any time she seemed sore we took a step back. She was 8 i think when she did the first one and just under 2 years later she did the other one, even though she was an older dog she recovered exceptionally well. Your dog will take some time to put weight on that leg but should be toe touching within a few days. Edited to add: I'm not advising to do anything just telling my experience and what worked for us. Edited June 24, 2016 by Rascalmyshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Every dog is different - take advice from the treating vet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Sounds like not good discharge instructions were given, all this should have been covered. Our cruciate patients walk out fully weight bearing, often less lame than before surgery, particularly the small dogs!!! (Though we do TTA's) If he is not using it you should be doing some Physio to keep the joint/muscles moving, can you call the surgeon today so you can get started asap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Sounds like not good discharge instructions were given, all this should have been covered. Our cruciate patients walk out fully weight bearing, often less lame than before surgery, particularly the small dogs!!! (Though we do TTA's) If he is not using it you should be doing some Physio to keep the joint/muscles moving, can you call the surgeon today so you can get started asap? Tend to agree . An ideal situation is that all bases are covered when dog goes home . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Not sure if anyone can help me with the below, they weren't covered off in my discharge meeting and our regular vet is still off sick: 1. Are there any exercise/physiotherapy I should follow - as it's mentioned on a lot of veterinary websites online. Massaging is also mentioned, but he seems very tender even when brushing away hair from his incision. 2. Should I be using a cold compress over his leg? I know for human treatment the methodology has moved from RICE to MEAT. 3. Towel walking - is this recommended? Again I see a lot of reference to this online. 4. When should we expect him to start placing weight on his foot? I know you mentioned the longer he stays off it the better. 5. He has not opened his bowels today - do we need to be concerned/worried? He has only peed once today, but that might be because he hasn't been drinking a lot. I've emailed the vet director and our regular vet, so hopefully they get back to me tomorrow. We've got a post-op appointment in 3 days, so it might be covered off in that, but the sooner I know the more comfortable I'll be. Getting info from the consulting vet is recommended. But as mentioned I strongly recommend doing a consult with Jaime at Primal Paws in respect to rehab. It really will set you up for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffles Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Considering you have an appointment in 3 days, none of that really matters as your dog will be crate rested in the meantime. I dont imagine a small dog like that needs towel walking or to be walking at all - carry him to toilet area, let him pee, carry back inside. Bowels not being used is normal. If he hasn't eaten prior to surgery, then there will be nothing to pass. Plus, the opiates he would have been given prior to, or after surgery will cause a little bit of a 'slow down' in that department - the same as it does with people. Please dont do any moving or massaging of the limb at all until you've spoken to the vet. As with humans and surgery, there's no need to be doing physio in the first 36 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Stop confusing yourself online , write down all your questions, and MAKE SURE you don't leave the vet surgery without answers :) IF you feel they are not answering your questions - then ask again for instructions/advice - in writing. but he seems very tender even when brushing away hair from his incision. Of course he's tender ! He has had his knee cut open , metal instruments in there digging and moving ...it will be quite painful, and will feel different to him . :) Edited June 24, 2016 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotdog Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Just curious the price range for these tplo procedures . Does anyone know of a good vet in Perth to carry out the procedure, looking for a second opinion Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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