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The Spotted Devil

Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

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Steve   

As an onlooker I read a newspaper article - one guy says "there's no money in Greyhounds" the next guy says "what am I going to do with this million dollar purpose built property?" another guy says "they're our pets, they live better than us" and the next guy says "the government has blood on their hands when the dogs get sent overseas or are all killed."

I guess wherever there appears to be inconsistency there are two main possibilities. 1) Some things are not true; 2) Most things are true. It seems counter-intuitive, but sometimes apparent inconsistencies are attempts to describe a complex and varied situation. Sometimes one thing is the case and sometimes almost the opposite, but both occur. In the case of greyhounds, people are very emotional and upset. I feel they are saying things without a lot of thought sometimes. Whether those things are correct in some circumstances or not is difficult to figure out. Sometimes there is a story in the grey areas between inconsistencies. There are a lot of things I have been unable to get a straight answer on in the greyhound racing industry. It became apparent after a while that this is because there really isn't one. Lots of variation in how things are done and how people are participating in the industry means there is no single answer that encompasses a majority.

agreed and both are true for many.You dont make money out of breeding dogs because all you make goes back into the dogs including infastructure and facilities whch could be sold after you retire but if there is no one any longer needing the kennels etc they drop rapidly in value.

This might be true for companion dogs but it's not necessarily true for greyhounds. When you sell a litter of eight greyhound pups for $3,000* each, there is a hell of a lot of money in it. And while some might put profits back into better facilities, many don't. I'm sure there are a few who treat breeding greyhounds as a profession and try to do it to very high standards but the majority would be hobby or casual breeders- a couple of litters a year and to them, not really worth expensive upgrades to facilities or purpose-building things. Most breeders I've seen down here use little tin sheds in dirt yards- hardly the birthing suites at the Cedars-Sinai.

*This number is not pulled from the air, by the way. Took a random page of classifieds from GD, worked out the mean price of pups on that page. Mean was $3,125 a pup, median was $3000.

It is as true for any breed of dog as any other. There are so many variables that it's impossible for an outsider to judge whether someone is making a profit or not . However, there is no shame in making money out of breeding dogs anyway and if some one is able to do it and still cover doing what is best for the dogs then full marks to them . 8 puppies at 3000 each still doesn't equate to much when consideration is made for vetting dogs from puppy through to adult,vetting of the bitch and the litter ,feeding adult dogs all year and puppies as long as they stay , stud services, and a hundred other things. They sure as hell don't get anywhere near enough to go anywhere near getting paid for their time. If someone is saying things about their state of the art kennels then its a fair guess that this breeder has more than tin sheds and dirt yards, that they have invested lots of time and money into building them and had expectations of getting some of their money back when they sell.

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asal   

As an onlooker I read a newspaper article - one guy says "there's no money in Greyhounds" the next guy says "what am I going to do with this million dollar purpose built property?" another guy says "they're our pets, they live better than us" and the next guy says "the government has blood on their hands when the dogs get sent overseas or are all killed."

I guess wherever there appears to be inconsistency there are two main possibilities. 1) Some things are not true; 2) Most things are true. It seems counter-intuitive, but sometimes apparent inconsistencies are attempts to describe a complex and varied situation. Sometimes one thing is the case and sometimes almost the opposite, but both occur. In the case of greyhounds, people are very emotional and upset. I feel they are saying things without a lot of thought sometimes. Whether those things are correct in some circumstances or not is difficult to figure out. Sometimes there is a story in the grey areas between inconsistencies. There are a lot of things I have been unable to get a straight answer on in the greyhound racing industry. It became apparent after a while that this is because there really isn't one. Lots of variation in how things are done and how people are participating in the industry means there is no single answer that encompasses a majority.

agreed and both are true for many.You dont make money out of breeding dogs because all you make goes back into the dogs including infastructure and facilities whch could be sold after you retire but if there is no one any longer needing the kennels etc they drop rapidly in value.

This might be true for companion dogs but it's not necessarily true for greyhounds. When you sell a litter of eight greyhound pups for $3,000* each, there is a hell of a lot of money in it. And while some might put profits back into better facilities, many don't. I'm sure there are a few who treat breeding greyhounds as a profession and try to do it to very high standards but the majority would be hobby or casual breeders- a couple of litters a year and to them, not really worth expensive upgrades to facilities or purpose-building things. Most breeders I've seen down here use little tin sheds in dirt yards- hardly the birthing suites at the Cedars-Sinai.

*This number is not pulled from the air, by the way. Took a random page of classifieds from GD, worked out the mean price of pups on that page. Mean was $3,125 a pup, median was $3000.

It is as true for any breed of dog as any other. There are so many variables that it's impossible for an outsider to judge whether someone is making a profit or not . However, there is no shame in making money out of breeding dogs anyway and if some one is able to do it and still cover doing what is best for the dogs then full marks to them . 8 puppies at 3000 each still doesn't equate to much when consideration is made for vetting dogs from puppy through to adult,vetting of the bitch and the litter ,feeding adult dogs all year and puppies as long as they stay , stud services, and a hundred other things. They sure as hell don't get anywhere near enough to go anywhere near getting paid for their time. If someone is saying things about their state of the art kennels then its a fair guess that this breeder has more than tin sheds and dirt yards, that they have invested lots of time and money into building them and had expectations of getting some of their money back when they sell.

I love the people who expect to be paid a wage for their work, yet look down on anyone who bred the puppy they want , not only for "having bred their fur child and prostituted its babies for money", I have heard that said by a chap driving a 100,000 car, perhaps someone gave it to him? But to ask a price that not only covers the cost of breeding it, to ask more to cover the time they spent caring for them? They consider their work and time is worth money but not the breeder of the pet they want? strange thinking.

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stellnme   

Two men arrested in Molong over the weekend and charged with making death threats to Troy Grant, his family and a staff member over the banning of greyhound racing. They've been given strict conditional bail. One apparently has links to a bikie gang.

Obviously they are not among the "good men" of the greyhound industry?

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asal   

Two men arrested in Molong over the weekend and charged with making death threats to Troy Grant, his family and a staff member over the banning of greyhound racing. They've been given strict conditional bail. One apparently has links to a bikie gang.

Obviously they are not among the "good men" of the greyhound industry?

how awful, and if the government is going to lump all greyhound owners in with them wonder if an additional legislation will be rushed in so all can be put on strict conditional bail? the closing down in the first place is because all have been found guilty by association with the 20% offending.

anyway this was forwarded to me, probably of little benefit agains a man whose mind is already made up. but putting the link for those who may want to do something

https://www.change.org/p/nsw-premier-mike-baird-overturn-the-nsw-government-s-decision-to-ban-greyhound-racing/share?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_campaign=new_petition_recruit

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Steve   

Two men arrested in Molong over the weekend and charged with making death threats to Troy Grant, his family and a staff member over the banning of greyhound racing. They've been given strict conditional bail. One apparently has links to a bikie gang.

Obviously they are not among the "good men" of the greyhound industry?

The death threats I got came from Animal rights people who apparently had links to Oscars Law

Greyhound people don't have a monopoly on nutterism and you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary.

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HazyWal   

Two men arrested in Molong over the weekend and charged with making death threats to Troy Grant, his family and a staff member over the banning of greyhound racing. They've been given strict conditional bail. One apparently has links to a bikie gang.

Obviously they are not among the "good men" of the greyhound industry?

The death threats I got came from Animal rights people who apparently had links to Oscars Law

Greyhound people don't have a monopoly on nutterism and you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary.

Aint that the truth Steve. Bit like the death threats Billy Slater the footballer and his family received from the anti racing brigade when he was to appear at a family night at Albion Park greyhounds last month. He had to pull out and deleted all advertising of the event from his FB page, and then there's this AR nutter *sigh* where do I start with Heather Howard? I and many, many others were stalked, harassed and threatened for years by this woman until she was finally arrested 9 months ago, released on bail and breached bail conditions within 2 days so was arrested again. She had me and others blocked but I accessed one of her pages through someone elses account one day and it freaked me right out the stuff she had in there. There were 1000's of photos of greyhound peeps with all these weird rantings under them. I was one of them.

Obviously she is not one of the "good people" of the anti racing peeps?

http://www.qt.com.au/news/woman-charged-after-greyhound-investigation/2828094/

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stellnme   

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

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Steve   

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

I have no stake in this one way or another but I am trying to see both sides and Im very uncomfortable about the way this has moved through the parliamentary process so far.

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Maddy   

As an onlooker I read a newspaper article - one guy says "there's no money in Greyhounds" the next guy says "what am I going to do with this million dollar purpose built property?" another guy says "they're our pets, they live better than us" and the next guy says "the government has blood on their hands when the dogs get sent overseas or are all killed."

I guess wherever there appears to be inconsistency there are two main possibilities. 1) Some things are not true; 2) Most things are true. It seems counter-intuitive, but sometimes apparent inconsistencies are attempts to describe a complex and varied situation. Sometimes one thing is the case and sometimes almost the opposite, but both occur. In the case of greyhounds, people are very emotional and upset. I feel they are saying things without a lot of thought sometimes. Whether those things are correct in some circumstances or not is difficult to figure out. Sometimes there is a story in the grey areas between inconsistencies. There are a lot of things I have been unable to get a straight answer on in the greyhound racing industry. It became apparent after a while that this is because there really isn't one. Lots of variation in how things are done and how people are participating in the industry means there is no single answer that encompasses a majority.

agreed and both are true for many.You dont make money out of breeding dogs because all you make goes back into the dogs including infastructure and facilities whch could be sold after you retire but if there is no one any longer needing the kennels etc they drop rapidly in value.

This might be true for companion dogs but it's not necessarily true for greyhounds. When you sell a litter of eight greyhound pups for $3,000* each, there is a hell of a lot of money in it. And while some might put profits back into better facilities, many don't. I'm sure there are a few who treat breeding greyhounds as a profession and try to do it to very high standards but the majority would be hobby or casual breeders- a couple of litters a year and to them, not really worth expensive upgrades to facilities or purpose-building things. Most breeders I've seen down here use little tin sheds in dirt yards- hardly the birthing suites at the Cedars-Sinai.

*This number is not pulled from the air, by the way. Took a random page of classifieds from GD, worked out the mean price of pups on that page. Mean was $3,125 a pup, median was $3000.

It is as true for any breed of dog as any other. There are so many variables that it's impossible for an outsider to judge whether someone is making a profit or not . However, there is no shame in making money out of breeding dogs anyway and if some one is able to do it and still cover doing what is best for the dogs then full marks to them . 8 puppies at 3000 each still doesn't equate to much when consideration is made for vetting dogs from puppy through to adult,vetting of the bitch and the litter ,feeding adult dogs all year and puppies as long as they stay , stud services, and a hundred other things. They sure as hell don't get anywhere near enough to go anywhere near getting paid for their time. If someone is saying things about their state of the art kennels then its a fair guess that this breeder has more than tin sheds and dirt yards, that they have invested lots of time and money into building them and had expectations of getting some of their money back when they sell.

I'm not concerned with the moral question of whether or not it's right to make money from animals, just pointing out that in breeding racing greyhounds, there is a great deal of profit to be made.

8 puppies at 3000 each still doesn't equate to much

$24,000 is not much? Most puppies aren't vetted from birth to adulthood because they don't remain with their breeder that long. And the vetting they get, from what I've seen, is minimal- the mandatory C3 vaccination, microchip and ear brand. Some might also spring for cheap wormers (although my dog's breeder certainly didn't, the poor puppy was covered in fleas and full of worms at 13 weeks old) and most are feeding cheap meat, not expensive kibbles. Greyhound breeders aren't running a charity, they breed to make money. If breeding greyhounds lost them money, there would be a lot less greyhounds in the world.

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m-j   

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion but I think it is as uninformed emotive opinion that is based on a minority that the industry is trying get rid of. an opinion that is going to help pave the way for a government to enable people to lose their livelihoods, which will in turn affect their families and possibly their lives, being denied an opportunity to work can do that to people. It is as uninformed as if I were to say people shouldn't be able to own pets because of pet owners being cruel to their pets which is well documented in vets, rescue organisations, anecdotes, and newspapers.

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mystify   

Unfortunately the media will only print sensationalised stories :-( not the truth

Edited by mystify

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Sheridan   

Two men arrested in Molong over the weekend and charged with making death threats to Troy Grant, his family and a staff member over the banning of greyhound racing. They've been given strict conditional bail. One apparently has links to a bikie gang.

Obviously they are not among the "good men" of the greyhound industry?

The death threats I got came from Animal rights people who apparently had links to Oscars Law

Greyhound people don't have a monopoly on nutterism and you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary.

Were they charged?

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Sheridan   

If by nutty you mean her religion views.....she's a Christian, nothing wrong with it.

Scott Morrison because he's her local MP, and GBOTA has been emailing every trainer in NSW (with a computer) advising trainers and breeders to send letters to their local MP as the MPs (particularly the lovely Sonia Hornery who supports us) will be going to debate on the petition in lower house in 2 weeks. Hopefully the more info we send to MPs who support the ban, the more we may make them think the ban is unfair and this will get more of them to go against the ban decision. At the moment it's 17 against 12 (I think roughly) so we need to sway more MPs

Well, I know how that's going to go. She'll get a letter thanking her then she'll get told it's a state matter.

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Sheridan   

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

I have no stake in this one way or another but I am trying to see both sides and Im very uncomfortable about the way this has moved through the parliamentary process so far.

Even if you hate the greyhound industry and believe everything in the report is the truth (including that lure coursing participants might live bait because their dogs chase plastic bags), how this has been handled is worrying.

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asal   

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

actually that's the scary bit, no one is considered entitled to an opinion that does not mirror Bairds or AR. To do so is to have stepped across the line of decency.

you cant recognise it because you agree with them both and so do not see or feel the threat to those to don't agree 80% should be punished for the behavior of 20%

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It never seems to amaze me that a lot of the population believe EVERYTHING they read, they never appear to find out about the other side of the issue and then make up their own minds.

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Why doesn't the govt shut down all the puppy farms in NSW? far worse is happening to these poor dogs than what has happened to 20% in the greyhound industry.

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Why doesn't the govt shut down all the puppy farms in NSW? far worse is happening to these poor dogs than what has happened to 20% in the greyhound industry.

Vic are trying to do that by limiting breeding bitches to 10. But there's outrage in another thread about that.

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~Anne~   

I think anyone who involves someone's family in their Agenda has crossed a line. You are right, Steve, you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary - that wasn't my point, I was merely passing on the news.

This will be my last comment in a thread which has become downright worrying. I can't believe anyone who owns rescue greyhounds or knows what has gone on can still believe that the industry is worth saving and greyhounds still need to race to make money for people - but that's my opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion but I think it is as uninformed emotive opinion that is based on a minority that the industry is trying get rid of. an opinion that is going to help pave the way for a government to enable people to lose their livelihoods, which will in turn affect their families and possibly their lives, being denied an opportunity to work can do that to people. It is as uninformed as if I were to say people shouldn't be able to own pets because of pet owners being cruel to their pets which is well documented in vets, rescue organisations, anecdotes, and newspapers.

So, I guess you support game hunters too... maybe also live exports... Cock fighting... There are people who are denied an opportunity to work in these industries too. It doesn't make them right, moral or just.

I am far from an animal welfare nutter. I know how government's work. I'm not a lefty, nor am I overly swaying to the right. I understand how legislation is created, debated and passed by peers.

I am 100% supportive of the ban.

This is 2016. Greyhound racing is a deplorable sport. We sacrifice dogs for our sporting pleasure. I read all of the arguments and some of it reminds me of another time. The time when docking was first banned. The world was going to come crashing down I was told. Tail injuries were being recorded. 'You'll see' everyone said. This ban is wrong.

12 years on and life continues and all dogs now wag tails instead of stubs. The sky didn't fall. The purebred world didn't disappear. So too shall this pass. A period of adjustment will be a certainty, just like with docking and then life will continue on.

Edited by ~Anne~

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m-j   

So, I guess you support game hunters too... maybe also live exports... Cock fighting... There are people who are denied an opportunity to work in these industries too. It doesn't make them right, moral or just.

I am far from an animal welfare nutter. I know how government's work. I'm not a lefty, nor am I overly swaying to the right. I understand how legislation is created, debated and passed by peers.

I am 100% supportive of the ban.

This is 2016. Greyhound racing is a deplorable sport. We sacrifice dogs for our sporting pleasure. I read all of the arguments and some of it reminds me of another time. The time when docking was first banned. The world was going to come crashing down I was told. Tail injuries were being recorded. 'You'll see' everyone said. This ban is wrong.

12 years on and life continues and all dogs now wag tails instead of stubs. The sky didn't fall. The purebred world didn't disappear. So too shall this pass. A period of adjustment will be a certainty, just like with docking and then life will continue on.

No I don't support game hunters, cock fighting or anything that is cruel and I consider a sport cruel when the end result is certain injury or death or anything the animal involved in it, given a choice, wouldn't participate. Try walking a greyhound past the entrance to an area where they know they have the opportunity to have a free run without them indicating they want to go in there, it is a very very sick Greyhound that doesn't want to go in and have that run.

Tail docking doesn't even vaguely compare to dogs doing something they were very much bred to and LOVE to do.

Why is Greyhound racing, done as it should be with all on a level playing field and the wastage issue addressed, a deplorable sport?? From my experience the dogs don't agree with you. They would rather have a run than lie on a couch the only time a couch would take precedence is if they are tired after their run. As I have mentioned before a track is about the safest place for them to do this.

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