Nsw To Ban Greyhound Racing From July 2017

[Maddy]

# https://savegreyhoundracing.com/2016/08/08/what-happens-when-we-win-in-court/

This does not answer my question. But thanks for the pointless link anyway?

#Haven't you been reading all those news in the media? All those videotape leaks of secret boardroom meetings with the racehorse owners back in April? All those documents and email leaks (whoops) by Baird's own staff?? He has his back to the wall now lol

If all these secret leaked documents and videos exist, surely you can link to one.

#You seem to be the typical extremist anti, love to attack innocent people personally because you can't stand not being able to control the racing industry.

You have no idea of just how wrong you are on that one. Up until recently, I'd held my tongue about a lot of the stuff I've seen during my ~10 years involved in rescuing greyhounds. I love the breed and hoped the industry could get itself right for the sake of the dogs and the minority of good trainers/breeders out there. But nothing has gotten better since I first started rescuing greyhounds. There are just as many dogs needing help, the industry is plagued with all the same problems and nothing has changed. I leaned more towards pro racing than anti so no, I don't love to attack innocent people, I can no longer justify any sort of support for people who just want this all to go away so that they can get back to business as usual.

#How do you know? Give me proof that the greyhound industry is responsible for a hell of a lot more misery than pedigree breeders. I've also got friends in the dog show areas and what they've told me about their industry was really shocking.

You can't be bothered providing any evidence but expect me to dredge up numbers to defend an argument that is beyond absurd. You made the claim that pedigree breeders are killing dogs left, right and center, how about you back that up?

# Why do you assume the 8 retired greyhounds are the only pets I've ever had?

Because this was the information you provided?

And as for..

I've never kept more than 1 pup out of every litter I bred as people were always wanting to buy my beautiful puppies due to my reputation as a caring ethical breeder.

That doesn't answer my question. Obviously you sold the puppies but do you know or care what became of them?

#Sorry to burst your bubble Maddy, GBOTA and GRNSW staff worked together to collect dated photo evidence of each retired greyhound with the appropriate I.D markings and ear tattoos for each dog to provide proof they weren't put down.

So, since the ban was announced, some very busy little beavers are GRNSW have been scurrying around, seeing physical proof of 40,000 greyhounds? In less than one month? Wow, that almost seems like it might be untrue.. It also seems like if they actually had all this hard evidence, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops and letting independent bodies verify the information.

Unlike the activists, the industry has no need to lie or falsify evidence or have their backs to the wall. What wall?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe the announced ban? The airing of the live baiting footage on Four Corners? Take your pick.

If I ever come to meet these awful characters in person I would spit on them :-(

Pity you couldn't spit on those well-known and respected trainers who were caught live baiting on camera. Or the many trainers who drop their dogs off at vets or high-kill pounds to be destroyed. But yeah, let's be angry with some other group of people.

[Maddy]

Maddy you are wrong about the thoroughbred industry not having advance notice about the closure of greyhound racing. I saw it, it's on YouTube. I posted about it somewhere (here or FB) along with the times in the video where it was talked about. This was filmed back in April.

The bloke that was quoted that he drowned young pups that he decided wouldn't make good racers has been proven to be from an American back in 2005/6, nothing to do with Australian racing at all.

Oh and my back yard is a bit of a graveyard, 5 large breed dogs and 2 cats. I cremate the dogs now as I no longer have room to bury them.

ETA and the one trainer that said 20% of trainers live baited. I think the maths was that he would have had to know over 300 trainers (in NSW) well enough to know what they actually did.

There is a difference between the thoroughbred industry being informed of the upcoming announcement and the thoroughbred industry being involved in some secret backroom talks (to their benefit, it is implied).

And yes, a handful of pieces of evidence were incorrect. But for every questionable item, there were plenty that could be proven beyond a doubt.

And equating a few buried pets with evidence of clubbed or shot dogs dumped in mass graves? Please, rebanne, you can argue better than that. Your backyard is in no way analogous to what was found at Bundaberg and you know it*.

*Unless you've been euthanasing your pets with a baseball bat, in which case, accept my apologies for the assumption.

[Rebanne]

Maddy you are wrong about the thoroughbred industry not having advance notice about the closure of greyhound racing. I saw it, it's on YouTube. I posted about it somewhere (here or FB) along with the times in the video where it was talked about. This was filmed back in April.

The bloke that was quoted that he drowned young pups that he decided wouldn't make good racers has been proven to be from an American back in 2005/6, nothing to do with Australian racing at all.

Oh and my back yard is a bit of a graveyard, 5 large breed dogs and 2 cats. I cremate the dogs now as I no longer have room to bury them.

ETA and the one trainer that said 20% of trainers live baited. I think the maths was that he would have had to know over 300 trainers (in NSW) well enough to know what they actually did.

There is a difference between the thoroughbred industry being informed of the upcoming announcement and the thoroughbred industry being involved in some secret backroom talks (to their benefit, it is implied).

And yes, a handful of pieces of evidence were incorrect. But for every questionable item, there were plenty that could be proven beyond a doubt.

And equating a few buried pets with evidence of clubbed or shot dogs dumped in mass graves? Please, rebanne, you can argue better than that. Your backyard is in no way analogous to what was found at Bundaberg and you know it*.

*Unless you've been euthanasing your pets with a baseball bat, in which case, accept my apologies for the assumption.

From what can gather it is about the money each code gets from the TAB revenue. And you are becoming very offensive particularly since I lost Fern only 4 weeks ago. I won't be responding to you again.

[Maddy]

Maddy you are wrong about the thoroughbred industry not having advance notice about the closure of greyhound racing. I saw it, it's on YouTube. I posted about it somewhere (here or FB) along with the times in the video where it was talked about. This was filmed back in April.

The bloke that was quoted that he drowned young pups that he decided wouldn't make good racers has been proven to be from an American back in 2005/6, nothing to do with Australian racing at all.

Oh and my back yard is a bit of a graveyard, 5 large breed dogs and 2 cats. I cremate the dogs now as I no longer have room to bury them.

ETA and the one trainer that said 20% of trainers live baited. I think the maths was that he would have had to know over 300 trainers (in NSW) well enough to know what they actually did.

There is a difference between the thoroughbred industry being informed of the upcoming announcement and the thoroughbred industry being involved in some secret backroom talks (to their benefit, it is implied).

And yes, a handful of pieces of evidence were incorrect. But for every questionable item, there were plenty that could be proven beyond a doubt.

And equating a few buried pets with evidence of clubbed or shot dogs dumped in mass graves? Please, rebanne, you can argue better than that. Your backyard is in no way analogous to what was found at Bundaberg and you know it*.

*Unless you've been euthanasing your pets with a baseball bat, in which case, accept my apologies for the assumption.

From what can gather it is about the money each code gets from the TAB revenue. And you are becoming very offensive particularly since I lost Fern only 4 weeks ago. I won't be responding to you again.

As tempting as it is to point out that I can't be aware of the details of your life, I'm sure you're already aware of that and of the fact that it obviously can't have been my intention to upset you.

But yes, not replying is probably a good idea. If I said the sky was blue, you'd be in to argue it was green and to be honest, I'm not fond of arguing just for the sake of arguing.

[m-j]

If it's only the tiny minority who are the problem (as the industry claims), there should be nothing to worry about, right? If everyone involved loves the dogs, there's no way they'd send them to China, knowing what will happen to the dogs there.

That tiny minority of dogs that might end up over there would be a tiny minority too many.

So, since the ban was announced, some very busy little beavers are GRNSW have been scurrying around, seeing physical proof of 40,000 greyhounds? In less than one month? Wow, that almost seems like it might be untrue.. It also seems like if they actually had all this hard evidence, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops and letting independent bodies verify the information.

I mentioned the census in a previous post as I also received the email, I didn't read it in time as the cut off date was the day before I read it and therefore my 3 weren't included in those stats, plus the others I have rehomed that are still alive in pet homes. You needed to supply ear brands and the dogs breeding it would have been foolish of them to falsify the census as it could/can be easily checked. I wonder how many others didn't reply as well.

[mystify]

Worthwhile to have a read of this (but only for people that have an open clear mind, not for those that have tunnel vision and refuse to see the truth and only wants to keep on believing their own lies and narrow perception of society as a whole).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/gaping-holes-in-flawed-greyhound-report/news-story/3025f749bc8ad9dc0e489f138dfd9b8b

P.S re greyhounds being exported overseas to Asian countries, I and my many friends are totally against it, I'm not a racist but I do know that their culture and mindset is totally different and the animal lovers are in the minority over there.

It is the Govt's fault that for years they never did anything to prevent the greyhounds from being sold over to China and Macau.

Macau is a totally horrific end of the line for 100% dogs that go over there to race. Barbaric nation, the culture thinks nothing of using cruel inhumane methods to kill the dogs.

For years a minority of trainers sold dogs in Australia to an exporter that specialised in sending the dogs overseas (trainers don't export, they have no idea how to, it's the exporter (usually a dodgy trainer/operator with business skills) who advertises that he is looking for slow dogs to send to Macau and faster more expensive dogs to send to a mainland province in China where there is a brand new racetrack apparently (chinese businessmen pay between $1000 to $250,000 to buy quality greyhounds from Australia to use in two dog match races)...

I've seen those ads years ago and even was approached in an email a few years ago by an agent for a Chinese businessman who was interested in buying a fast racedog I had at that time... he offered quite a large sum of money that could have paid all my bills and bought me a brand new car.. but I had no hesitation in saying NOT FOR SALE AT ANY PRICE TO EXPORTERS.

My friends who are like me, also were approached and big money offered for their fast dogs too.. they all said NO!! It makes me violently sick to my stomach to think of the poor greyhounds being sent to live and die horribly in a foreign country with a different culture.

I made quite some enemies in the racing industry with trainers who had sold their dogs overseas, as they didn't appreciate my viewpoint and didn't want me interfering in their business or try to agitate for a law change to stop it happening.

I've received death threats, knee capping threats, simply for saying I didn't agree with trainers sending dogs to China or Macau. I am a very passionate protester against cruelty and export of dogs to asian countries.

If I knew the racing industry was filled with live baiters, abusers or drug cheats I would have been a very passionate protester against the industry.

So for me not to protest against the industry, it shows that I know what it is like inside and outside the industry and have met more decent people with the same viewpoints as myself, than the minority of scumbags who think nothing of live baiting, cheating by using drugs on their dogs, and using standover tactics on people they don't like.

Just because an extremist Muslim terrorist bombs a city, do you label every single Muslim a criminal and a terrorist and ban them all from living?

No. You're supposed to act like a decent human being that has a rational mind and don't use emotive tactics to destroy all Muslims.

Same with the greyhound racing industry. Just because 10% of trainers are scumbags, you don't try to destroy the other 80% of decent trainers.

Edited August 8, 2016 by mystify

[Sheridan]

Hi Mystify, I'm interested in your posts but haven't read them. Why? Because you and paragraphing don't seem to be friends. If you want people, particularly on mobile devices, to read your posts then please use your return key liberally.

[mystify]

Hi Mystify, I'm interested in your posts but haven't read them. Why? Because you and paragraphing don't seem to be friends. If you want people, particularly on mobile devices, to read your posts then please use your return key liberally.

Hi Sheridan,

Sorry, I was typing fast lol

[Sheridan]

Hi Mystify, I'm interested in your posts but haven't read them. Why? Because you and paragraphing don't seem to be friends. If you want people, particularly on mobile devices, to read your posts then please use your return key liberally.

Hi Sheridan,

Sorry, I was typing fast lol

Feel free to use the edit feature.

[Maddy]

If it's only the tiny minority who are the problem (as the industry claims), there should be nothing to worry about, right? If everyone involved loves the dogs, there's no way they'd send them to China, knowing what will happen to the dogs there.

That tiny minority of dogs that might end up over there would be a tiny minority too many.

So, since the ban was announced, some very busy little beavers are GRNSW have been scurrying around, seeing physical proof of 40,000 greyhounds? In less than one month? Wow, that almost seems like it might be untrue.. It also seems like if they actually had all this hard evidence, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops and letting independent bodies verify the information.

I mentioned the census in a previous post as I also received the email, I didn't read it in time as the cut off date was the day before I read it and therefore my 3 weren't included in those stats, plus the others I have rehomed that are still alive in pet homes. You needed to supply ear brands and the dogs breeding it would have been foolish of them to falsify the census as it could/can be easily checked. I wonder how many others didn't reply as well.

So no hard evidence then? Just the dog's ear brands and pedigree? If 40,000 were submitted, confirming them by sighting actual dogs would be next to impossible, hence my skepticism as to their accuracy. I have no doubt that they collected data for 40,000 but I find it very difficult to believe that even a small portion of those dogs submitted were actually confirmed.

Mystify, I've met plenty of lovely trainers- decent, hardworking people who you'd never guess chucked possums into their yards or slipped their dogs on pademelons. I've also met plenty of decent trainers who saw nothing wrong with giving their dog some iced coffee before a race (and then just trusting to luck that they wouldn't get swabbed) and even more decent trainers who had no problem with the idea of euthanasing pups that couldn't be raced. People aren't just good or bad- there are a few who are legitimate nasty a*******s and then there is the large majority who don't break major rules (or even technically break rules at all) who are doing things that are not acceptable. You personally might not have euthanased the pups you bred and sold but someone else probably did. And it's easy to say that it was someone else's lack of responsibility or care for the dogs. Same with live baiting, overbreeding and doping- "It's not me, it's that guy over there." And apparently that guy over there is impossible to weed out of the industry.

I have a lot of doubts about the ban but I can absolutely see why Mike Baird felt it was the only real solution. Policing welfare to an acceptable level is just not possible, we see examples of that over and over and over again.

But anyways, this is a pointless debate to be having. Even if I have solid, reasonable arguments, I'm apparently just some anti racing hippy who knows nothing about the industry or the issues involved. And you personally do the right thing so I guess everything is okay anyway. Glad we sorted that out.

[mystify]

Maddy, it's more about the fact that Premier Baird is trying to be a dictator, not the fact that he banned greyhound racing. If he was genuinely concerned about the welfare issues and was a fair Premier, I wouldn't fight so hard against the decision.

It's the fact that we in NSW are allowing this Premier to make harsh Hitler-like decisions on everything that he thinks he doesn't like. Look at the Lock Out laws he created, look at the deals he did with developers to ruin people's lives in Sydney, look at what he's doing to the disability schemes, etc etc He feels he is above the law and won't listen to his colleagues and does things on his own without having to discuss it in Parliament.

Is this the sort of Premier we want??? I know I am getting off topic in discussing politics, but this is the point I'm trying to make. It all will backfire on the Premier very soon, and it will backfire all the Greenies' and animal activists' purpose.... because they had a purpose to push for a ban on greyhound racing yet did not foresee the implications of allowing the Premier to get away with slandering people and stealing from taxpayers fund....

But they will soon find out that the Premier will be targeting the pedigree dog breeders next, wiping them out. Because the extreme animal libbers are already saying

they do not want people to have pet dogs or cats, they believe (same as PETA) that people shouldn't own pets. (have a look at PETA's creed)

[stellnme]

So you don't think the lock out laws have merit, Mystify? I think the Doctors, Paramedics and Police would disagree. I'd also point out that if "Animal Activists" is the worst insult you could throw at people, many would wear that label proudly.

Because you are involved in the racing industry, of course you are going to be against the Ban. Many people think differently. Many think the time to make money out of seeing greyhounds racing is long past. We have evolved past that. It sounds like you have a big problem with the Premier and anything he does. You appear to be clutching at straws.

[mystify]

So you don't think the lock out laws have merit, Mystify? I think the Doctors, Paramedics and Police would disagree. I'd also point out that if "Animal Activists" is the worst insult you could throw at people, many would wear that label proudly.

Because you are involved in the racing industry, of course you are going to be against the Ban. Many people think differently. Many think the time to make money out of seeing greyhounds racing is long past. We have evolved past that. It sounds like you have a big problem with the Premier and anything he does. You appear to be clutching at straws.

I am on the side of Drs and Nurses and Paramedics and I agree with the Lock out Laws, however what I'm talking about is all those measures introduced without going through Parliament is what has all of society so upset. Many people think the Lock Out laws wasn't implemented properly and doesn't really work. Disability schemes are being wiped out as well. WestConnex also drawing a lot of negative feedbacks. Etc etc.

Also, I have a few friends who are very against the racing industry but they understand we can be friends and agree to disagree without having to be nasty to each other. I support animal activists but not the extremist antis nor the ones that proclaim animal rights over animal welfare.

I am actually not involved in the greyhound racing industry, I haven't set foot on a track in probably about 3 years, I no longer desire to watch dogs racing. I just love the historical aspects of the sport, remembering all the champions of yesteryear, I have thousands of greyhound newspapers and magazines dating back to 1960s (although my family and friends have been trying to get me to burn the papers for years lol) I love researching the pedigrees of dogs and trying to remember what their temperaments were like, any traits and faults etc (much like what the show dog breeders do) and most of all I love the breeding side where I help the bitch bring puppies into the world and the puppies become my children.

I love watching cute little puppies grow up into beautiful natured happy healthy adults whose genetic imprint gets switched on the moment they hear the sound of a motorised lure being driven around a racetrack. Greyhounds just instinctively know what they are bred for and know what to do on a track, most require very little encouragement or training to learn to go into a starting box and to chase a lure around.

Very rare to see any serious injuries on a racetrack, even when dogs fall badly they end up ok with just minor muscle bruising like a footballer get on the field. Rest and rehabilitation and injury treatment management sees them recovered 100% before they race again.

Not every greyhound that breaks a leg is ever put down. Only the few that the track vets tell the owners it's best to put down the dog due to the nasty nature of the break which cannot be fixed. Most breaks are clean, so if it is fixable then the dogs will usually be saved. Unfortunately the antis have spread so much myths and propaganda about the injury rates and death rates that it's hard to stop all those lies from being repeated over and over again by the antis.

Good to see the truth being told in court today for once... :-) http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-09/greyhound-racing-ban-report-contained-factual-errors-court-told/7703436

Edited August 9, 2016 by mystify

[~Anne~]

Maddy, it's more about the fact that Premier Baird is trying to be a dictator, not the fact that he banned greyhound racing. If he was genuinely concerned about the welfare issues and was a fair Premier, I wouldn't fight so hard against the decision.

It's the fact that we in NSW are allowing this Premier to make harsh Hitler-like decisions on everything that he thinks he doesn't like. Look at the Lock Out laws he created, look at the deals he did with developers to ruin people's lives in Sydney, look at what he's doing to the disability schemes, etc etc He feels he is above the law and won't listen to his colleagues and does things on his own without having to discuss it in Parliament.

Is this the sort of Premier we want??? I know I am getting off topic in discussing politics, but this is the point I'm trying to make. It all will backfire on the Premier very soon, and it will backfire all the Greenies' and animal activists' purpose.... because they had a purpose to push for a ban on greyhound racing yet did not foresee the implications of allowing the Premier to get away with slandering people and stealing from taxpayers fund....

But they will soon find out that the Premier will be targeting the pedigree dog breeders next, wiping them out. Because the extreme animal libbers are already saying

they do not want people to have pet dogs or cats, they believe (same as PETA) that people shouldn't own pets. (have a look at PETA's creed)

Sorry, but your post is a load of twaddle.

[asal]

The comment about the adds is so true, what a waste of taxpayers money, I was driving yesterday and on the radio comes an add extorting people to go to .... website and register their desire for greyhound racing to be shut down.

no mention of a website to register a desire for it to continue. not exactly democratic.

Edited August 9, 2016 by asal

[asal]

Maddy, it's more about the fact that Premier Baird is trying to be a dictator, not the fact that he banned greyhound racing. If he was genuinely concerned about the welfare issues and was a fair Premier, I wouldn't fight so hard against the decision.

It's the fact that we in NSW are allowing this Premier to make harsh Hitler-like decisions on everything that he thinks he doesn't like. Look at the Lock Out laws he created, look at the deals he did with developers to ruin people's lives in Sydney, look at what he's doing to the disability schemes, etc etc He feels he is above the law and won't listen to his colleagues and does things on his own without having to discuss it in Parliament.

Is this the sort of Premier we want??? I know I am getting off topic in discussing politics, but this is the point I'm trying to make. It all will backfire on the Premier very soon, and it will backfire all the Greenies' and animal activists' purpose.... because they had a purpose to push for a ban on greyhound racing yet did not foresee the implications of allowing the Premier to get away with slandering people and stealing from taxpayers fund....

But they will soon find out that the Premier will be targeting the pedigree dog breeders next, wiping them out. Because the extreme animal libbers are already saying

they do not want people to have pet dogs or cats, they believe (same as PETA) that people shouldn't own pets. (have a look at PETA's creed)

Sorry, but your post is a load of twaddle.

Umm did you spot the two or was it more? pollies who said pretty close to the same "twaddle" tonight on ABC news, one was Fred Nile? some are considering to cross the floor and vote against Bairds quest to close down the greyhounds.

Edited August 9, 2016 by asal

[moosmum]

So, pedigree breeders should get into bed with commercial puppyfarmers because only a few puppyfarmers are bad? Uh, no thanks.

Umm, You don't have to sleep with them.

There IS NO Separation of breeder practices by group. No group can ever be exempt from poor practice.

No group can ever say sh*t doesn't happen in 'My' space.

To insist Pedigree breeders have a 'different' space will see pedigree dogs ( and others) eventualy, go the same way as as the greyhound industry.

No doubt.

In accepting that all DOGS and BREEDERS have equal legitimacy to Man and his communities, the focus shifts from 'Groups' or environments, back to individuals and their own practices, where it belongs. Does this PERSON live up to the expectations of our community? Forget your 'own' space for that. Doesn't matter if a person lives up to K.C expectations if they are not also community expectations.

With SHARED environment, conversation can shift to those values and practices, ( not groups ) that bring bring best results for Dogs and the communities they live in.

Bringing shared responsibility of communities, A better educated and informed public.

Puppy farms would fail on the expectations of a more responsible and informed public.

Its the way to ensure puppy farms DON"T succeed hobby/enthusiast breeders.

The way its going ATM, Puppy farms and commercial breeders have all the advantage available.

Its a matter of Saving pedigree dogs, and domestic dogs in general.

I find it very hard to respect a group that would rather 'die' and destroy a welcoming, valued space for dogs for every one, than change a belief that only a 'pedigree' can give a dog, a breeder or an owner validity. That superiority of pedigrees is a given, regardless of practice and environmental purpose.

Thats what it amounts to. Any body claiming to be FOR dogs has a responsibility to shape and form those expectations. For dogs. Or they fail dogs at the most basic level.

Its very unlikely puppy farms would ever have become an issue if the premier Breeder bodies had accepted in the 1st place that they are not THE environment for dog breeders, just one of many with a responsibility to the communities that support them to demonstrate value.

A responsibility to a healthier environment than whats been left in their wake with a belief superiority is in a pedigree, not a dog or its purpose and values to its own space .

You think your 'Group space' can single handedley meet community expectations, for all of us, go for it, But you will be judged by the worst, as a group.

You fail my expectations. I have lost hope for my breed, along with most anyone who valued them for their purpose.

Edited August 10, 2016 by moosmum

[Steve]

Breaking News - Bill has been introduced to parliament and being fast tracked.

[Steve]

State not liable for compensation and betting as well as racing to be outlawed.

Cant see where they cant still breed them and sell them unless Ive missed it

Live webcast in parliament now Link

Edited August 10, 2016 by Steve

[Pjrt]

' Being fast tracked'. Interesting turn of phrase!