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Jack_E

Eastern European Shepherd

104 posts in this topic

LisaCC   

What about White Swiss Shepherd Dogs?

I know a few competing in agility and obedience successfully and others doing herding.

I know some oldies going strong too.

I don't know how they go drive wise for IPO. But at least one WSSD I know is very highly driven and is a super obedience dog :)

Edited by LisaCC

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Kavik   

Some great videos Kavik. Makes me realise how old school I really am LOL How impressive was that simulcam one? Although the twinning of the judges and other officials was a bit weird LOL! Rebanne were your courses like the 1978 one?

we didn't have the seesaw but we did have tunnels under the dogwalk! There was more then one person who hit their head from not ducking kick enough. Large dogs had to jump 900mm if I recall correctly. You had to be clear and in the fastest top half to go onto the 2nd round and to get a qually you also had to go clear and be in the top half in time. Very few people handled their dogs on the right hand side :D

Yes handling is very, very different nowadays

Wow 900 is so high! Jump heights have come down a lot - highest is 600 now :)

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Jack_E   

I know they're a leap away from shepherds, but have you looked at Boxers? They are fantastic with kids, really intelligent, although they are not as easy to train as some more handler focussed dogs, generally good with other dogs and if you choose your breeder carefully and check the lines, the risk of many of the health issues can be minimised. They also have a good, deep bark when it counts and definitely look intimidating enough to the casual observer to be a pretty good deterrent.

I have an 8 month old Boxer boy and he is a dream around the house, very happy to laze around and snuggle, super enthusiastic to exercise when it's time, so patient with kids and our training is going really well (thanks to DOL) even though I'm a total novice. I'm planning to do some agility for fun with him when he's older, tracking and then train him as a therapy dog.

I would stress making sure you get the right breeder though. Ours placed my boy very carefully with us, as we are first time Boxer owners and his temperament was more suited than some of the others in his litter. He's confident but not dominant, loves everyone but can be attentive. I have him walking reliably on a loose leash now and his recall is coming along well. He picks up new commands and tricks within 3-5 minutes and remembers them, so in that sense he's very intelligent and trainable. But he does get excited and then his brain disengages ????.

And come on, look at that face!

My grandma used to have a boxer. But then it got stolen ????. I agree that they are beautiful dogs, however they have never really appealed to me. After owning a bulldog all the slobber and grunting would be nice to avoid with the next dog. I hadn't really considered them though, so thank you loads for the recommendation.

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Jack_E   

What about White Swiss Shepherd Dogs?

I know a few competing in agility and obedience successfully and others doing herding.

I know some oldies going strong too.

I don't know how they go drive wise for IPO. But at least one WSSD I know is very highly driven and is a super obedience dog :)

I never really looked at them as I thought they were essentially just a white variation of the GSD, however I'll give them a look and add them to the list.

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Jack_E   

You are in the wrong state if you want to do IPO/protection training Jack.

How about tracking? A friend is having lots of fun doing that with her Belgians.

I think a GSD would be best suited for obedience work and family dog. I wouldn't go a mastiff if you wanted to do obedience.

Are you not allowed to do protection based training in vic? I'll look into tracking that sounds like it'd be a good activity, and I live in an area that is suited to it.

My understanding is you aren't unless you are a security guard. Some info:

http://agriculture.v...you-should-know

Protection training

Protection training is defined as training a dog to attack people or animals and includes the training of a dog to attack a human wearing padded protective clothing for any purpose including sport. It is not considered appropriate for a member of the community who is not a licenced security guard to have access to an attack trained dog and this is reflected in the strict provisions of the Domestic Animals Act. Dogs that have received this type of training will be declared as a dangerous dog by a Council.

Licensed security guards

Licensed security guards registered under the Private Agents Act 1966 are the only persons eligible to have their dogs trained as Protection Dogs, or to be trained in Protection Training.

Proof of Security Licence must be shown to the training establishment prior to commencement of Protection Training.

No member of the public may be trained in protection training unless the above pre-requisites are complied with.

Eligible dogs

The minimum age of a dog before protection training is allowed is 12 months.

Only recognised guarding breeds of the large variety and cross breeds of these, are allowed to be trained in protection training. These breeds are:

German Shepherd;

Rottweiler;

Doberman;

Other breeds recognised by the VCA as large guarding breeds.

Council notification

An owner must notify the appropriate municipality immediately when attack training has commenced.

Dangerous dogs

Dogs that have been trained to attack are dangerous dogs, and owners will be required to adhere to prescribed conditions (contact your council for details). This includes clear identification of the dog and methods of restraint that will protect the community.

Well that sucks :( . Thank you though for informing me. I understood that they almost always needed to be registered as a dangerous dog, however I was unaware of needing to be a body guard in order to take part in this training. Guess I'll have to stick to tracking and agility then.

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Jack_E   

I seriously would not choose any of the mastiff breeds if you are intending to do dog sports - their joints are under strain already from sheer size (I'm sad to say) and running and jumping etc. can have major consequences when done often.

I would also avoid all of the Spitz derivatives as they need a very different training style.

One last hint - how important is the off switch to you? Most of the breeds you have short listed don't have an off switch until they are seniors. However, if you are dedicated enough with a working line breed, you can train in a temporary off switch.

I guess a lot of the things I want are conflicting. Good with dogs and children is a must, and an off switch is ideal, but I understand I won't necessarily get one. In terms of big breeds(larger the better) what breeds would you say have the best chance of effectively competing in dog sports with ought hurting themselves. Although I agree with you in terms of almost all mastiffs, I have heard a lot about the cane corso being a very reliable protection dog and trainable dog, however if this is wrong I am happy to be corrected.

The mastiff breeds are trainable enough, but not suited to active dog sports. And they are not necessarily as good at protection as some of the shepherd working lines.

The best breeds for dog sports that involve a lot of twisting and turning at speed tend to be the active herding breeds (GSD, Belgian Shepherds, Australian Shepherds, Kelpies, Koolies etc.etc. and some of the gundogs - Weimeraner, Vizla, all the pointers, the agile spaniels; also poodles, vermin terriers and other odd-bods.)

Dog sports that involve pulling (sledding, weight pulls etc.) is a whole different kettle of fish, although GSDs do well along with traditional sledding breeds and some of the cattle working specialist breeds. There are other sports as well, none that immediately come to mind as being great showcases for masitiffs. :(

In Obedience itself, almost any breed can excel if you can find the right motivation for the dog.smile.gif Good with dogs and children will mainly be up to how well a puppy is socialized , although some of the terrier breeds can go against this trend and be dog aggressive in spite of proper socialization.

The other thing that you may not have considered is that all of the giant breeds (includes all mastiffs except the Bernese Mountain Dog) have short life expectancies compared with small, medium and large breeds. Nothing to do with inherited disease, as a rule, it is just that their hearts have more work to do and simply wear out sooner.

LOL there is a you tube video doing the rounds which shows a high performance agility dog doing his stuff, followed by a Mastiff doing the same course.

I'm thinking that a Dobermann might actually tick most of your boxes - just choose a breeder who is breeding for performance rather than only the show ring.

I also saw that video, it was quite funny. Thank you for the info I have looked at weight pulling a little bit however I have read that is unethical as it can cause unnecessary strain and damage to the dogs, is this true? I really appreciate the info. Thanks heaps

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Tor   

I know they're a leap away from shepherds, but have you looked at Boxers? They are fantastic with kids, really intelligent, although they are not as easy to train as some more handler focussed dogs, generally good with other dogs and if you choose your breeder carefully and check the lines, the risk of many of the health issues can be minimised. They also have a good, deep bark when it counts and definitely look intimidating enough to the casual observer to be a pretty good deterrent.

I have an 8 month old Boxer boy and he is a dream around the house, very happy to laze around and snuggle, super enthusiastic to exercise when it's time, so patient with kids and our training is going really well (thanks to DOL) even though I'm a total novice. I'm planning to do some agility for fun with him when he's older, tracking and then train him as a therapy dog.

I would stress making sure you get the right breeder though. Ours placed my boy very carefully with us, as we are first time Boxer owners and his temperament was more suited than some of the others in his litter. He's confident but not dominant, loves everyone but can be attentive. I have him walking reliably on a loose leash now and his recall is coming along well. He picks up new commands and tricks within 3-5 minutes and remembers them, so in that sense he's very intelligent and trainable. But he does get excited and then his brain disengages ????.

And come on, look at that face!

My grandma used to have a boxer. But then it got stolen ????. I agree that they are beautiful dogs, however they have never really appealed to me. After owning a bulldog all the slobber and grunting would be nice to avoid with the next dog. I hadn't really considered them though, so thank you loads for the recommendation.

My boy doesn't slobber at all really, except if he's super excited. Less than I remember my childhood GSD anyway. And he snuffles a bit, but doesn't grunt or snore unless he's lying with his face squashed into his leg or something. I think if they are properly bred for a good head shape they won't drool or snore particularly. They do have an undershot jaw, but not to the extent a bulldog does

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The Bergamasco Shepherd may be another Shepherd dog worth looking into ????

They are very intelligent, are versatile & agile for dog sports and have an off switch. There is not much my boy can't do!

Their coat does put a lot of people off, but unless showing them, they don't need to be in full flocked / dreadlocked coat.

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Well that sucks :( . Thank you though for informing me. I understood that they almost always needed to be registered as a dangerous dog, however I was unaware of needing to be a body guard in order to take part in this training. Guess I'll have to stick to tracking and agility then.

Lots of other sports too.

Weight pull / drag training

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/263593-weight-pulling-discussion/page__p__6717247__hl__%2Bweight+%2Bpulling__fromsearch__1#entry6717247

(there's a member here who does it with her Rotty too)

Scentwork / nose work - which is different to tracking and zero impact - great for ANY DOG! Young growing pups and old, crotchey dogs (like mine) and all in between

These guys are in NSW https://www.facebook.com/K9NoseTime/ but there is a presence in Vic too

Mushing/urban sledding/ bikejoring

https://www.facebook.com/huskyjournals/

obedience

(love this video)

They're just a few I can think of off the top of my head ....

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Dogsfevr   

I wouldn't consider a Shilo for competitive agility and they come in all shapes and sizes ,I was in the US last year and the Shiloh national was being held in the rain Ng next door ,they did nothing for me as a breed as there was no consistency,

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LisaCC   

Well that sucks :( . Thank you though for informing me. I understood that they almost always needed to be registered as a dangerous dog, however I was unaware of needing to be a body guard in order to take part in this training. Guess I'll have to stick to tracking and agility then.

Lots of other sports too.

Weight pull / drag training

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/263593-weight-pulling-discussion/page__p__6717247__hl__%2Bweight+%2Bpulling__fromsearch__1#entry6717247

(there's a member here who does it with her Rotty too)

Scentwork / nose work - which is different to tracking and zero impact - great for ANY DOG! Young growing pups and old, crotchey dogs (like mine) and all in between

These guys are in NSW https://www.facebook.com/K9NoseTime/ but there is a presence in Vic too

Mushing/urban sledding/ bikejoring

https://www.facebook.com/huskyjournals/

obedience

(love this video)

They're just a few I can think of off the top of my head ....

If you have a shepherd HERDING :)

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Jack_E   

The Bergamasco Shepherd may be another Shepherd dog worth looking into ????

They are very intelligent, are versatile & agile for dog sports and have an off switch. There is not much my boy can't do!

Their coat does put a lot of people off, but unless showing them, they don't need to be in full flocked / dreadlocked coat.

I'll give them a look. Thanks

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Jack_E   

Well that sucks :( . Thank you though for informing me. I understood that they almost always needed to be registered as a dangerous dog, however I was unaware of needing to be a body guard in order to take part in this training. Guess I'll have to stick to tracking and agility then.

Lots of other sports too.

Weight pull / drag training

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/263593-weight-pulling-discussion/page__p__6717247__hl__%2Bweight+%2Bpulling__fromsearch__1#entry6717247

(there's a member here who does it with her Rotty too)

Scentwork / nose work - which is different to tracking and zero impact - great for ANY DOG! Young growing pups and old, crotchey dogs (like mine) and all in between

These guys are in NSW https://www.facebook.com/K9NoseTime/ but there is a presence in Vic too

Mushing/urban sledding/ bikejoring

https://www.facebook.com/huskyjournals/

obedience

(love this video)

They're just a few I can think of off the top of my head ....

The more I look, the more options there are and much harder decisions. Thanks heaps for all the info though

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Jack_E   

I wouldn't consider a Shilo for competitive agility and they come in all shapes and sizes ,I was in the US last year and the Shiloh national was being held in the rain Ng next door ,they did nothing for me as a breed as there was no consistency,

That's a shame. Doubt I'd consider getting one though as I have no interest in importing a dog and there are currently no Australian breeders that I know of.

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Dogsfevr   

The thing about competition agility is that it has changed a lot since it started! It has changed a lot even since I started competing 7 years ago! I have now changed to a new handling system with my young dog as the one I was using with my older dog did not give me as many options for the challenges judges are now placing in competitions. It is now commonplace to send the dog to the back side of the jump, to send them into the non obvious end of the tunnel (instead of the end they are looking at), and to call them past obstacles which are in their path.

Totally agree i no longer compete as it a set breed sport not an all round sport like it was .Gone are the days you could watch agility & see a wonderful array of breeds ,now its all about twist,turns & faster the better .

To the OP it also comes down to how much coat you want to deal with & whether you want to go to a grooming salon,have a wash & wear kinda dog.

Dog sports will be a very small part of its life & if you don't plan to fulfill its working needs could be a nightmare which is why picking the dog for reality is better than i may do.

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Tassie   

Some great videos Kavik. Makes me realise how old school I really am LOL How impressive was that simulcam one? Although the twinning of the judges and other officials was a bit weird LOL! Rebanne were your courses like the 1978 one?

we didn't have the seesaw but we did have tunnels under the dogwalk! There was more then one person who hit their head from not ducking kick enough. Large dogs had to jump 900mm if I recall correctly. You had to be clear and in the fastest top half to go onto the 2nd round and to get a qually you also had to go clear and be in the top half in time. Very few people handled their dogs on the right hand side :D

Yes handling is very, very different nowadays

Wow 900 is so high! Jump heights have come down a lot - highest is 600 now :)

Just for the record, I'm pretty sure the original big dog top jump height was 760 mm ...but that was big when it was in the triple jump .. bar, solid, bar set at bounce distance .. so no stride in between, and the dreaded triple spread hurdle .. can't remember the distance across the spread, but it was the 760 bar at the back that was the deal breaker for my 545 Border Collie, who at that stage, was classified in the big dog category .. only 3 categories then.

And yes, it was tough to get a Q, with having to get into the second round and then go clear.

And yes .. the courses were all set for left hand handling. And started and finished on the table. And there was no separate Jumping competition .. that came in when my first BC was 11 ....so January 2001 I believe.

Ed for clarity

Edited by Tassie

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Kavik   

I'm glad they added the extra classes - Jumping is my favourite :)

And they've just gotten rid of the table this year!

I managed to pick one up from my club - they are very useful :)

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Tassie   

:laugh: Agree ... the jumping presents a whole new set of challenges LOL. And when it first came in, I put my BC boy in the first Jumping trial here .. the heights had changed, and he only had to jump 500, and was jumping fit because he was doing UD. That was the first time he'd seen a flexi tunnel, which was a bit scary for me .. didn't know if he'd make the bend. Of course he did!.. We didn't Q, as I hadn't set him up properly for one jump, but he had the best time!

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Kavik   

A couple of JDM maps

Attached one I attempted but didn't run clear. FB link was one from Saturday, I wasn't entered but was assembly steward for that event.

post-489-0-08584900-1468210240_thumb.gif

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