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OSoSwift

Child Mauled In Wa Park

77 posts in this topic

I think actually quite often people do call a particular dog a "staffy" or a "pit bull" or a "swf" or an "oodle" or whatever because they don't like them. It is widely known that people are notoriously bad at identifying breeds and show bias (no I don't have any studies to link). So I don't think dismissing what Sars and BBL are saying is warranted.

However in this case, where they were trying to identify particular dogs to find them I think saying "Staffordshire x" was probably the most effective way of finding them.

ETA having said that, average joe is probably always going to be uninformed about dog breeds, behaviour, training and everything else, so the main thing I think we can do is ensure that our own dogs don't ever act in a way that makes people think negatively about them

Edited by Simply Grand

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I sympathize with BBB's attitude. It is a bit like racism in the dog world. The police are careful how they describe 'the wanted' and in the same way we should be careful how we describe dogs wanted for a crime. Perhaps the papers should just say they were medium sized brindle dogs of chunky build.

Oh, please.

Naming a breed for the closest possible match that people would be familiar with is nothing at all like racism. Nobody is calling a staffy, a staffy, because they hate staffies. It looks to someone like a staffy so that's what they call it.

Oh please yourself. I am not saying that they are calling the dog a staffy because they hate staffies but because if they name the breed (or race) it might suggest that all staffies (or races) behave in this way and that is what has upset BBB.

The average Jo does not know breeds of dogs. Just look at the thread in General. They do not know what a bull breed is (a French Bulldog is a bull breed) and they have different ideas about what a staffy is. By naming the breed here all it is doing is vilifying the breed.

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Definitely see your point BBB but they were looking for this owner and the dogs so anything that can POSSIBLY identify them is probably fair game. Different scenario for general reporting would be preferable, I agree.

Yeah I do understand and certainly pleased that this irresponsible owner has been caught. Hopefully the lady is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

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What a mind-bloggling and pointless waste of money for a rescue. "Waa, don't discriminate against our breeds. Our dog isn't an X, it's a Y, and we have the dodgy vet DNA test to prove it!"

I'm surprised that you can't see the issue with the DNA testing you do- given it's encouraging the same breed discrimination that you're claiming to be against. :confused:

I'm not sure why you are so angry.

How we spend our money is entirely our prerogative. You may think it is a waste of money, but due to the ridiculous BSL laws in WA if a dog gets classified as a pit bull it will have a very difficult life and is almost impossible to rehome.

Maybe you could check your facts before jumping to conclusions.

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Definitely see your point BBB but they were looking for this owner and the dogs so anything that can POSSIBLY identify them is probably fair game. Different scenario for general reporting would be preferable, I agree.

Yeah I do understand and certainly pleased that this irresponsible owner has been caught. Hopefully the lady is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It's horrible when owners/breeders of your beloved breed (and various crosses) f*** it up. I see it, in a different way, with Dalmatians. Fortunately field-bred ESS aren't anywhere near as popular here as they are in the UK.

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asal   

I sympathize with BBB's attitude. It is a bit like racism in the dog world. The police are careful how they describe 'the wanted' and in the same way we should be careful how we describe dogs wanted for a crime. Perhaps the papers should just say they were medium sized brindle dogs of chunky build.

Oh, please.

Naming a breed for the closest possible match that people would be familiar with is nothing at all like racism. Nobody is calling a staffy, a staffy, because they hate staffies. It looks to someone like a staffy so that's what they call it.

Oh please yourself. I am not saying that they are calling the dog a staffy because they hate staffies but because if they name the breed (or race) it might suggest that all staffies (or races) behave in this way and that is what has upset BBB.

The average Jo does not know breeds of dogs. Just look at the thread in General. They do not know what a bull breed is (a French Bulldog is a bull breed) and they have different ideas about what a staffy is. By naming the breed here all it is doing is vilifying the breed.

I distinctly remember police reports stating they are looking for a person of caucasion. asian, african and or middle eastern appearance. in some circles that might be considered describing a certain appearance ?

I bought a dog kennel once second hand and the owner told me his staffy had outgrown it. considering the size of the kennel and my aunt bred staffies I was pretty suspicious his dog wasn't a staffy. when he called it out to meet me i was scared witless i was being eyed off by a massive red nosed pit bull. they arrived here because the bogans wanted something tougher and scarier than what was available here.

yes there are those who love them and train them but its the bogans who have them as extensions of their egos and raise the disasters that make it into the headlines. as we see only too tragically.

my neighbour had an ACD that would bite even his owner, instead of putting down the potential walking disaster he sold it to a bogan for breeding, once the pits arrived here the bogan got rid of the acd's , at least he stopped breeding potential headliner ACD's

Edited by asal

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OSoSwift   

I do get it, I have owned dogs of these breeds, however they were looking for two very dangerous dogs. They needed to find them, they need to describe them as how a vast majority would see them.

They are what they are.

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Lhok   

More to the point how many false leads would it have caused if they had of said two medium sized chunky brindle dogs. I hope the girl and her brother recover well.

I have no sympathy for the owner of the dogs at all, this situation was completely avoidable.

--Lhok

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Boronia   

The one I saw in the video certainly looked like a staffy cross dog so what other way could it be described by the people who saw the attack

It was of stafffy appearance

it wasn't cattle-dog appearance

it wasn't rottie appearance

or terrier appearance

I agree that some of the media are ott with their fierce-looking snarling dog photos but why should weasel-words be used when the people who witnessed the attack said they looked like staffies

They did look like staffies

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Scratch   

They looked like identical twins to me. If I saw then I'd describe them as medium brindle Staffy cross or perhaps medium brindle bull breed cross. If I'd seen them I could hardly describe them as chihuahua cross or corgi cross or shepherd cross or spaniel cross.

It is a shame when other people let down your breed or breed type but seriously what the heck else could these clearly medium size brindle Stafford type dogs be described as???

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asal   

They looked like identical twins to me. If I saw then I'd describe them as medium brindle Staffy cross or perhaps medium brindle bull breed cross. If I'd seen them I could hardly describe them as chihuahua cross or corgi cross or shepherd cross or spaniel cross.

It is a shame when other people let down your breed or breed type but seriously what the heck else could these clearly medium size brindle Stafford type dogs be described as???

exactly, only their head shape gave them away as being x breds but to those who didn't know the subtle difference between them and a real staffie would think they were, for those who did the descrption was spot on.

same with the chap who told me his dog was a staffie, to me he was so different to the real staffie the difference was as vast as comparing an elephant to a rhino.

yes he was staffie type but it ended there, he was three times the size of a staffie

Edited by asal

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Scratch   

To me not including the staffy or bull breed type to the description would be like telling telling the police that the blue herby VW you saw drive from the accident was just a blue car.

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Purdie   

Stricter leash laws should come about in order to protect the public.Too many off leash dogs about that should never be off lead.

Greyhounds are kept on lead for good reasons not because they are bad dogs;

I never took my Bull terrier or Bully cross off lead in public because i understood that in some situations they could fight with other dogs if the other dog was not friendly and large dogs running about scare other people .I am fed up with owners who buy a large tough breed and expect it will behave like a soft little fluff ball.

How many kids need to be mauled or killed before dumb owners wake up and behave responsibly.

Breeders need to take some responsibility too for what they are producing.

Whenever a breed becomes too popular then that breed is over produced to the detriment of temperament and health .

Add to that random back yard breeding and you have a large number of dangerous; unstable; overly anxious or at best troublesome dogs that should not be in the community

and are unfit as family pets.

Staffordshire Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers and dare i say Pit Bulls can and Should be great dogs and i am sure there are a few great ones still about but the fact is you only need to look at the shelter lists around the country to see large numbers of these breeds and there crosses and mixes.

This should ring alarm bells with breeders that something is not right as so many these breeds clearly are no longer a good fit in the average pet home and community at large.

But go on put your heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem while kids are mauled and dogs are put on anxiety meds to get through the day and others line up to get the final needle.

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Horrific attack and the owner certainly showed her character didn't she. I'm glad she was found and the dogs destroyed.

As far as the breed discussion, I agree that identification for the purposes of finding the dogs is different to just arbitrary identification of every bloody dog that attacks as a 'pit bull cross' or 'staffy cross', regardless of what we actually know about the dog.

That said, I suspect it may actually be more effective in situations like this where the dogs are clearly mutts to just describe the dogs themselves - 'medium sized, solid dogs, with a brindle coat colouring and a solid head' I suspect would be likely to be helpful to more people than 'brindle staffy cross'. You'd be surprised how many people who aren't in to dogs wouldn't really know how to imagine a 'staffy cross', especially as they're quite generic looking in comparison to say, a Dalmatian or a Pug. Lots of people in fact don't even know what 'brindle' is!

I sympathize with BBB's attitude. It is a bit like racism in the dog world. The police are careful how they describe 'the wanted' and in the same way we should be careful how we describe dogs wanted for a crime. Perhaps the papers should just say they were medium sized brindle dogs of chunky build.

Oh, please.

Naming a breed for the closest possible match that people would be familiar with is nothing at all like racism. Nobody is calling a staffy, a staffy, because they hate staffies. It looks to someone like a staffy so that's what they call it.

Oh please yourself. I am not saying that they are calling the dog a staffy because they hate staffies but because if they name the breed (or race) it might suggest that all staffies (or races) behave in this way and that is what has upset BBB.

The average Jo does not know breeds of dogs. Just look at the thread in General. They do not know what a bull breed is (a French Bulldog is a bull breed) and they have different ideas about what a staffy is. By naming the breed here all it is doing is vilifying the breed.

I distinctly remember police reports stating they are looking for a person of caucasion. asian, african and or middle eastern appearance. in some circles that might be considered describing a certain appearance ?

I bought a dog kennel once second hand and the owner told me his staffy had outgrown it. considering the size of the kennel and my aunt bred staffies I was pretty suspicious his dog wasn't a staffy. when he called it out to meet me i was scared witless i was being eyed off by a massive red nosed pit bull. they arrived here because the bogans wanted something tougher and scarier than what was available here.

yes there are those who love them and train them but its the bogans who have them as extensions of their egos and raise the disasters that make it into the headlines. as we see only too tragically.

my neighbour had an ACD that would bite even his owner, instead of putting down the potential walking disaster he sold it to a bogan for breeding, once the pits arrived here the bogan got rid of the acd's , at least he stopped breeding potential headliner ACD's

The vast majority of people who own 'Pit Bull' dogs are responsible members of the public who love their dogs as family, just like every dog breed.

The Majority Project

There are also many APBT breeders who breed for the love of the breed, like many others. Obviously not as common in Australia given BSL but without the legislation, it would be the same just like it is in the US. Registered breeders that love their dogs and breed them for work or show.

As far as 'raising them right', they're dogs like any other. Many are 'raised wrong' (dogfighting, abuse) and are still wonderful, safe, loving dogs. Some are 'raised right' and still end up with issues. Just like any dog no matter the breed or mix.

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Stricter leash laws should come about in order to protect the public.Too many off leash dogs about that should never be off lead.

Greyhounds are kept on lead for good reasons not because they are bad dogs;

I never took my Bull terrier or Bully cross off lead in public because i understood that in some situations they could fight with other dogs if the other dog was not friendly and large dogs running about scare other people .I am fed up with owners who buy a large tough breed and expect it will behave like a soft little fluff ball.

How many kids need to be mauled or killed before dumb owners wake up and behave responsibly.

Breeders need to take some responsibility too for what they are producing.

Whenever a breed becomes too popular then that breed is over produced to the detriment of temperament and health .

Add to that random back yard breeding and you have a large number of dangerous; unstable; overly anxious or at best troublesome dogs that should not be in the community

and are unfit as family pets.

Staffordshire Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers and dare i say Pit Bulls can and Should be great dogs and i am sure there are a few great ones still about but the fact is you only need to look at the shelter lists around the country to see large numbers of these breeds and there crosses and mixes.

This should ring alarm bells with breeders that something is not right as so many these breeds clearly are no longer a good fit in the average pet home and community at large.

But go on put your heads in the sand and pretend there is no problem while kids are mauled and dogs are put on anxiety meds to get through the day and others line up to get the final needle.

Re your bold. No. Just no.

SBT, Amstaffs and yes, even 'Pit Bulls' and their mixes are some of the most popular dogs in the country. SBT are usually #1 or 2, Amstaffs are always in the top ten. Of course you won't get stats on 'Pit Bulls' because of the legislation but there's plenty of those out there as family pets too. It would be odd for the dogs to not be more highly represented in the shelter population, as they are more highly represented in the general dog population.

The vast majority of dogs of all breeds in shelters are not there because there is something wrong with the dog. There are many reasons that animals are surrendered or not reclaimed from the shelter. Lack of pet friendly housing, lack of funds to cover hundreds of dollars of reclaim fees, unable to fix fencing due to renting or lack of funds so the dog keeps escaping, incompatibility with another resident dog (when that dog might be fine as an only dog or living with a dog with a different temperament), lack of training, unable to afford vet care, owner passed away, owner hospitalised... the list goes on and on.

Yes there's lots of blocky headed mixes in the pound (which by the way may not actually have any of the breeds you've mentioned in them), and the vast majority of them are rehomed or rescued without incident. Yes, there's also dogs there because of significant temperament issues, but they are the minority and those dogs exist in any breed or 'type' in the shelter population.

It's pretty awful to blame the dogs for being in the shelter, when there are so, so many human-related reasons for why pets end up there. Many of them also not the fault of the owners, who may be in crisis or financially struggling. It's also very myopic to expect that all pet owners have the same privilege that you or I might have that means that we would only choose to give up our dogs in situations where the dog has huge temperament issues.

Edited by melzawelza

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karen15   

Story above said it was an on lead area where the girl was attacked but I must say, I get a bit worried when I see prams and toddlers in big dog park. While peoples' own dogs might be fine, it doesn't mean all dogs are.....

The reserve was an on-leash area, that doesn't make it a dog park. If your dog is a risk for running up to and severely mauling small children, maybe it doesn't belong out in public.

Wow Maddy..... Way to assume there..... I have never owned a vicious dog. My dogs are always complemented for their friendly, bubbly, outgoing natures. My current dogs are being therapy dogs with people in assisted living.

That doesn't mean I haven't noticed the great Dane that attacked the bin man in big dog park. The two shepherd breeds that tried to rip a whippet to pieces. Dogs displaying obvious aggression and people ignorantly letting their toddlers wander around. There's even a thread in general where a family dog is struggling with a toddler. If a familiar dog struggles, I think people are being very unrealistic to think strange dogs at dog park are going to be fine with prams and toddlers.

Edited by karen15

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Stricter leash laws should come about in order to protect the public

The dogs were off lead in an on-lead park so I don't know what stricter laws would do - given nobody is enforcing the ones they've got.

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Purdie   
Stricter leash laws should come about in order to protect the public

The dogs were off lead in an on-lead park so I don't know what stricter laws would do - given nobody is enforcing the ones they've got.

It's about time they did enforce the laws.I don't see Greyhound owners letting their dogs of leash so why can't other dog owners keep their dogs under control.

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asal   
Stricter leash laws should come about in order to protect the public

The dogs were off lead in an on-lead park so I don't know what stricter laws would do - given nobody is enforcing the ones they've got.

It's about time they did enforce the laws.I don't see Greyhound owners letting their dogs of leash so why can't other dog owners keep their dogs under control.

interesting isnt it? the stats were 20% of greyhound owners were doing the wrong thing so the entire racing of greyhounds is being shut down including the 80% who were honest AND AS WE ALL NOTICE, KEEP THEIR DOGS ON LEAD!

It seems the pet owners who dont keep their dogs on leash and under control don't have much to worry about as there doesn't seem even a medicom of interest in fining or charging them, the fit only hits the fan when someones pet is killed or someone is mauled.

In my whole life I cannot recall seeing a greyhound not leashed, the racing ones muzzled and the pet ones no muzzle but always on a leash. Pity the rest cant take note and copy save a lot of heartbreak and angst, even save an awful lot from becoming road kill.

Edited by asal

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