westiemum Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 How old are the children and are they the couples children or grandchildren ? I think it is bad form on their part to not involve the children in the re home process to let the children meet you and let them see that the dog has a good home with you. My parents gave away 2 of my dogs when i was not home and i came back to find them gone. It would have been easier to deal with if i 'd had a say about where they went and given time to accept the situation. We re homed a dog to a relative when my kids were small on advise from trainer and vet as the dog was not suited to children and the kids became scared of her and stopped wanting to play in the yard. We all went together to take the dog to her new Adult home with no kids and the children cried and wailed all the way home in the car that she was the best dog ever;but once home they ran outside to play and hardly mentioned her again.They did get to visit her again a few months later but showed little interest past an initial pat. The following year we adopted a dog from a shelter who truly was the best dog ever for our family;was wonderful with the kids and we had her for 9 wonderful years. At first i thought you should give her back but i wonder if the dog would be happier and get more attention with you . You could suggest that the children visit the dog once and see that you are taking good care of the dog or wait a couple of weeks and see if the old owners have adjusted to him being gone or still want him back.Your 2 year old will take to another dog if you decide to return the dog but i am leaning towards you should keep this one. Thank you for the reply. I believe they are teenage girl/girls. From the conversation we had I believed that they knew about the rehoming as one of the reasons she was getting rehomed was that they weren't spending very much time with the dog. I think they did know and it's more of a case of they missed her once she was gone. Which makes me feel terrible of course! The owner is coming to visit on Sunday but I'm not sure if he plans on bringing the children or not. Will confirm today. We will see how it goes. He did say he does feel she is in a better home with us, but just that they miss the dog terribly. I'm still so torn! I was hoping to get a lot of replies that all leaned one way on here, but it seems everyone helping is torn too! Lol. I feel for you - terrible position to be in when you've done all the right things. I'm not sure that the Sunday visit is a good idea unless he brings the teenagers. The discussion I think should then centre about what is best for the dog. And I think you should aim to keep him as he's better off with you, its about what's best for the dog and not offer ongoing contact. My instincts say these people are going to have trouble letting go and could turn this into a nightmare for you and the dog. The poor dog ends up moving back and forth and if they are willing to do that to the dog I think thats a problem - and like Jules I worry the problem of the courtyard is still there and this whole situation will recur sooner rather than later. Good on you for trying to manage this mess - which clearly instant of your making. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 With all the info posted here so far, I'd be inclined to keep the dog... you could offer the possibility of occasional play dates at a park somewhere between you and them, and the old owner's daughters can see him every now and then until they are used to not having to clean up his poo and all the other non-glamorous tasks dog ownership requires... and lose interest... T. Hi T, I normally agree with you- but not this time. I wouldn't offer play dates. I think it just prolongs the hurt for the relinquishing family. A clean final 'break' I think is kinder for them and the dog. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stellnme Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Its a tricky one, but both sides need to take the children out of the equation. Yes, their kids might be upset but the dog will still have a tiny yard and no walks,not fair on a young GSD to make a call just to please the kids. Same with your side, your child is young, a week down the track it might not even notice the dog, right now its a new thing to have around. I wouldnt base my decision on how any of the kids feel, although it sounds harsh, who can give the dog the best outcome? Legally, has the old owner signed transfer of owner papers? My immediate reaction was give it back, but will they offload her agin a few months down the track when all the reasons they have now for rehoming her are still there? Brilliant post Jules - my thoughts exactly. And I suspect they will unload again when you have a dog like a GSD going stir crazy in a courtyard. In my view their initial decision to re-home was probably right and in the dogs best interests. IMO this is not about the children concerned. Some years ago I had a call from someone who wanted to rehome her westie (for good reasons). But after talking to her I just felt that this was going to be trouble with her letting the dog go. So I said give it six weeks and think hard and long about this as its for good - from my perspective with a surrender there is no turning back and I make people sign a surrender form stating this precisely to avoid this situation. I asked her to ring me back in six weeks if she still wanted to surrender. She did - but my instincts were right. I would still get the odd calls or email from her three years later enquiring about the dog. So yes its fraught with difficulty. Legally as money and papers have changed hands (a clear transaction) and I assume any microchip has been changed or in the process of being changed I suspect the dog is legally yours. But the question becomes not what is best for the children but what is best for the dog. And I think you need to work that out and talk it through with the previous owners and reach an agreement. I'm going to guess that your family is whats best for the dog. Hope that helps. Did the paperwork include a sign over though, or was it just previous information about the dog - and the OP states the microchip hasn't been changed over. That's what is worrying me - that the dog is still officially in the old owner's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stellnme Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 It's up to the old owner to transfer the microchip details, and there should have been a transfer of ownership done, even if it was just written on a piece of paper and signed by both the old owner and yourself, so there's a bit of a grey area there. When I moved from 5 acres to a town block many years ago, I worried that it would have been too small an area for my large dog at the time, and had the offer to rehome her to a friend's larger property. I did think about it, but couldn't part with her and she lived with me very happily for another 7 years, until she died at 17. We made it work, so I do understand the old owner's change of heart in your situation. I would have a big talk to him, and would give him his dog back. When we got our rescue dog we had to change the microchip details. She was still registered in the state she was born in. The NSW Companion Animals Register states that it is the responsibility of the "old" owner - the person selling or giving away the animal - to notify the change. Changes should be notified within 14 days of the change. I've noticed the OP is in W A, so not sure what their protocol is with microchips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 How old are the children and are they the couples children or grandchildren ? I think it is bad form on their part to not involve the children in the re home process to let the children meet you and let them see that the dog has a good home with you. My parents gave away 2 of my dogs when i was not home and i came back to find them gone. It would have been easier to deal with if i 'd had a say about where they went and given time to accept the situation. We re homed a dog to a relative when my kids were small on advise from trainer and vet as the dog was not suited to children and the kids became scared of her and stopped wanting to play in the yard. We all went together to take the dog to her new Adult home with no kids and the children cried and wailed all the way home in the car that she was the best dog ever;but once home they ran outside to play and hardly mentioned her again.They did get to visit her again a few months later but showed little interest past an initial pat. The following year we adopted a dog from a shelter who truly was the best dog ever for our family;was wonderful with the kids and we had her for 9 wonderful years. At first i thought you should give her back but i wonder if the dog would be happier and get more attention with you . You could suggest that the children visit the dog once and see that you are taking good care of the dog or wait a couple of weeks and see if the old owners have adjusted to him being gone or still want him back.Your 2 year old will take to another dog if you decide to return the dog but i am leaning towards you should keep this one. Thank you for the reply. I believe they are teenage girl/girls. From the conversation we had I believed that they knew about the rehoming as one of the reasons she was getting rehomed was that they weren't spending very much time with the dog. I think they did know and it's more of a case of they missed her once she was gone. Which makes me feel terrible of course! The owner is coming to visit on Sunday but I'm not sure if he plans on bringing the children or not. Will confirm today. We will see how it goes. He did say he does feel she is in a better home with us, but just that they miss the dog terribly. I'm still so torn! I was hoping to get a lot of replies that all leaned one way on here, but it seems everyone helping is torn too! Lol. Well while i understand that they all miss her and sad she is going;if they'' didn't spend much time with the dog'' then i don't see that changing for long if she goes back. Keep her,cancel Sunday and send them a few pictures and an update and leave it at that ;the longer it 's up in the air the harder it will be for them to adjust and it's not fair to you to have this worry on you.You should be relaxing and enjoying the time with your dog. I cross-posted with Purdie - but thats a really good option too. Good luck Remidog. BTW be careful with letting these people come to your home if they expect they are going home with the dog. I think you need to make it very clear before any visit that at this point the dog is staying with you and you're agreeing to any visit so the teenagers can see that the dog is happy and in the best place. So be clear about what the visit is about if you decide to go ahead. Purdie has given you a good alternative option too - you could cancel and send some photos so the teenagers can see the dog is in the best place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) I tend to agree with this.... Well while i understand that they all miss her and sad she is going;if they'' didn't spend much time with the dog'' then i don't see that changing for long if she goes backKeep her,cancel Sunday and send them a few pictures and an update and leave it at that ;the longer it 's up in the air the harder it will be for them to adjust and it's not fair to you to have this worry on you.You should be relaxing and enjoying the time with your dog. I do hope you have some sort of record of any money which has changed hands ... this may get messy Edited October 8, 2016 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I tend to agree with this.... Well while i understand that they all miss her and sad she is going;if they'' didn't spend much time with the dog'' then i don't see that changing for long if she goes backKeep her,cancel Sunday and send them a few pictures and an update and leave it at that ;the longer it 's up in the air the harder it will be for them to adjust and it's not fair to you to have this worry on you.You should be relaxing and enjoying the time with your dog. I do hope you have some sort of record of any money which has changed hands ... this may get messy Yes, they'll all spend the weekend free of worry and guilt about ignoring the dog, doing what they want and think how much better life is. But will they admit it and make a decision based on the best interests of the dog? Hopefully, but doubt it. Call me cynical? You bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) Legally, has the old owner signed transfer of owner papers?Did the paperwork include a sign over though, or was it just previous information about the dog - and the OP states the microchip hasn't been changed over. That's what is worrying me - that the dog is still officially in the old owner's name. Remidog this is a good point - I usually get the previous owner to sign the microchip transfer form and a surrender form at the point of surrender. So if you see the previous owners on Sunday and you haven''t already done so get them to sign the microchip transfer form. I think there are still a number of registers and if they don't know which one it is then its probably wise to get them to sign all of them. Then you'll have to hunt around to find which one it is and submit it - but then you know its done. Its critical that the microchip is transferred into o your name if you decide the dog is staying with you. (But if the dog isn't chipped you don't need to worry about this at all - except to have the dog chipped into your name next time you are at the vet). Maybe a kind DOLer can post the links to the microchip registers? (I'm out of date with this and don't want to send you on a wild goose chase) Good luck. Edited October 8, 2016 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Kisses Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 This one looks up all registries EXCEPT NSW: http://www.petaddress.com.au/ This is the NSW registry: https://www.petregistry.nsw.gov.au/#/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 [ I'm still so torn! I was hoping to get a lot of replies that all leaned one way on here, but it seems everyone helping is torn too! Lol. For me the issue is that you have only had her for a couple of days. If it had been 6+ months I would say keep her 100%. But I am also feeling for her old family as sometimes you do things and then realise how you will feel until after. There are a couple of horses I wish I had never sold!! Even though I was doing the best thing for the horse it hurt a lot. The first night/day without the dog would have been horrible for them too. Last time my dogs were in a kennel I was home for one night without them and it was so weird. They may start to feel better about her not being there if they aren't super doggy. I am also concerned about whether they will try and re-home her again but they seemed committed to finding her a home rather than just taking her to the pound so a future re-home would hopefully go the same way. And yes I feel bad for you too. Very sucky situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 This one looks up all registries EXCEPT NSW: http://www.petaddress.com.au/ This is the NSW registry: https://www.petregistry.nsw.gov.au/#/ Brilliant Pk - thanks - really good to know - and I'll tuck it away for future reference. Such a darn pest having multiple registries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 If Remidog has all the paperwork and microchip details can ownership be changed without the old owner doing anything.? https://www.car.com.au/updating-registry-records Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 If Remidog has all the paperwork and microchip details can ownership be changed without the old owner doing anything.? https://www.car.com....egistry-records Doubt it - question of transfer of ownership.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Remidog you say you have proof of purchase;what does that consist of,has this guy put his signature to anything ? He should know that he needs to transfer ownership and my concern is that if he was to take the dog back and you don't get your money back or he does this again to someone else.you need to contact the registry that handles your dogs microchip and tell them the old owner has not signed the transfer papers. If you send them proof of purchase they may contact him and ask him to change ownership to you at once or they may do anyway once you have shown a signed document / receipt of sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karen15 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 You can change microchip details without the noted owner signing anything. I had to do it for the cocker spaniel I rehomed from work. All it needed was a statutory declaration. I documented the dogs' history as it had been told to me as part of the stat dec (not a requirement), so the registry was aware and it's documented for future reference. I paid nothing for the dog, she was a giveaway. I had no issues updating her details. I didn't need to provide proof of purchase etc As a rehome, the son missed the cocker a bit, but it had been discussed and agreed that they could only handle one dog and the cocker had come to them after baby sitting for a neighbour who never picked her up and told the guy I got her from that he could have her. Potential to be messy if prior owner ever wanted her back, hence documenting the history on the stat Dec. At least the facts, as I know them, are now recorded. I work with the person I got her from and show him pics etc regularly. He's happy she has a good home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Thats good to know karen15 and Purdie - I didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Good to know about the Statutory declaration;If i bought a dog i would want the microchip in my name asap . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodoggies2001 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 With all the info posted here so far, I'd be inclined to keep the dog... you could offer the possibility of occasional play dates at a park somewhere between you and them, and the old owner's daughters can see him every now and then until they are used to not having to clean up his poo and all the other non-glamorous tasks dog ownership requires... and lose interest... T. Hi T, I normally agree with you- but not this time. I wouldn't offer play dates. I think it just prolongs the hurt for the relinquishing family. A clean final 'break' I think is kinder for them and the dog. I am of the same opinion but in this case, I am thinking of the dog and her feelings. If she settles well in her new home and then meets her 'old' family, would this not be unsettling for the dog and the humans involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidog Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 Remidog you say you have proof of purchase;what does that consist of,has this guy put his signature to anything ? He should know that he needs to transfer ownership and my concern is that if he was to take the dog back and you don't get your money back or he does this again to someone else.you need to contact the registry that handles your dogs microchip and tell them the old owner has not signed the transfer papers. If you send them proof of purchase they may contact him and ask him to change ownership to you at once or they may do anyway once you have shown a signed document / receipt of sale. No signature on anything. I just have microchip form details, vet information etc. We have all of the communication between us saved which can clearly show that the dog was sold to us as well as a copy of the advertisement of the dog. We will print a transfer of ownership form tonight and get him to sign tomorrow if it's decided she will stay with us. My dad is actually a lawyer so could also do a stat Dec for me no problems as well. Hopefully there doesn't become any bigger issues here I would hate to think that they would just take the dog back and we would be out of pocket all that money! If they so desperately wanted her back we would definitely give her back before a situation like that would arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidog Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 This one looks up all registries EXCEPT NSW: http://www.petaddress.com.au/ This is the NSW registry: https://www.petregistry.nsw.gov.au/#/ Thank you for those links, much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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