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spyda62

Double Merles

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spyda62   

Has anyone else noticed how many double Merles are being produced lately? All backyard breeding is wrong but surely the people deliberately producing Double Merles should be charged with animal cruelty? 

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Scratch   

A lot of breeders, let alone back yarders , don’t have a lot of knowledge or care that much  on genetics it seems.

I once talked to a working dog breeder who was looking at breeding an obvious Merle to what at a first glance looked like a solid coloured dog and I went over the solid coloured dog and in under a minute found a tiny patch, rendering it a Merle and warned them , but they seemed of the opinion that the tiny spot didn’t make it a merle, and guess what half the puppies were blind or had under developed useless eyes. 

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asal   

Everyone can be accused of being a backyard breeder, all it takes is having a backyard and someone doesn't like you. 

As for learning genetics, so many view their dogs as fur children and don't see the necessity to learn genetics. How many times it won or has Ch in front of it's name is the criteria 

 

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Diva   
27 minutes ago, asal said:

How many times it won or has Ch in front of it's name is the criteria 

 

I don’t think it is even that.  Most of those I have noticed have been outside of any competitive context, people don’t seem to have any firm criteria most of the time. 

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Dogsfevr   

Also blame the stupid people who want to buy these colours ,Those breed for the detriment of the breed 

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It's not stupid to want to buy a merle dog, merle is an acceptable colour in many breeds and the average joe buyer isn't going to know there is an issue with double merle breeding, or even if they are aware of it, they wouldn't necessarily know the breeding was double merle if they don't get a pedigree with the puppy,

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Average joe buyer isn't sticking to Merle dogs together make the pup. 

 

The blame lays with those who intentionally put two Merle dogs together. Be it for money, looks, the dogs being amazing examples of the breed in every way and they want to take the risk, or pure not caring/it won't happen to me attitudes. Byb or registered. They are the ones who made the decision to intentionally breed such a high risk detrimental trait. 

 

The dogs suffer for it. 

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Dogsfevr   
5 hours ago, Simply Grand said:

It's not stupid to want to buy a merle dog, merle is an acceptable colour in many breeds and the average joe buyer isn't going to know there is an issue with double merle breeding, or even if they are aware of it, they wouldn't necessarily know the breeding was double merle if they don't get a pedigree with the puppy,

The heading is Double Merle so yes stupid people I am very aware of Merle’s and what is correct and what is a time bomb 

Edited by Dogsfevr

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15 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

The heading is Double Merle so yes stupid people I am very aware of Merle’s and what is correct and what is a time bomb 

Yeah but buyers aren't out there saying I want to buy a DOUBLE merle dog, double merles aren't being bred because there is demand from "stupid people" for them, they're being bred for the reasons Thistle said above. If breeders choose to breed double merle because they think it will give them an increased chance of more healthy merle looking puppies that people do want, then that's on them, not the buyers.

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spyda62   

IMHO...a lot of the problem is that so many Double Merles ( especially Danes) are stunning looking dogs with their ( Ice Walker) blue eyes and lots of white coat. Often  because of their limited vision they have that shuffling walk that creates an even greater impression of a goofy oversized pup. Unscrupulous breeders are using that opportunity to gain big dollars from these pups, not caring at all about the lifetime of misery they are condemning these dogs to. 

image.thumb.jpeg.7bb06f6829a34dbdf47749e87960bcf1.jpeg

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asal   
15 minutes ago, spyda62 said:

IMHO...a lot of the problem is that so many Double Merles ( especially Danes) are stunning looking dogs with their ( Ice Walker) blue eyes and lots of white coat. Often  because of their limited vision they have that shuffling walk that creates an even greater impression of a goofy oversized pup. Unscrupulous breeders are using that opportunity to gain big dollars from these pups, not caring at all about the lifetime of misery they are condemning these dogs to. 

image.thumb.jpeg.7bb06f6829a34dbdf47749e87960bcf1.jpeg

that one was lucky at least it has eyes. I suspect many double merle matings are accident. either one was not recognised as being a merle or the other ooo too common cause, many who do it haven't a clue what happens to the double merle puppies

 

until they have to see and deal with the result

 

Edited by asal
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spyda62   

He's not really lucky with his eyes. He has Corectopia, Starburst pupils and Micropthalmia, probably less than 10 % vision and may still lose his eyes.

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accidents happen..and one "special " crops up .....in this litter ..  1 black with white chest , 2 blue/black , 1 red with white chest , and ... my gorgeous  Pudden .
he has micropthalmia/corectopia X1 , and partial deafness x1 . Had the damage been worse, he would have been euthed . We neither keep, nor pass on , problems . 








 

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Edited by persephone
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Puddy is a very useful teaching tool  :) people see him ..love his looks , until they look at his wonky eye ..and watch as he has some sound location probs ..and they see his pink skin ..and I explain about the double merle gene . (90% of them had no idea at all ..and are horrified at the thought that something which they thought of as just a 'colour' could have such far reaching effects . 
:) 

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asal   

the tragedy is it wouldnt happen if not doubled up but even in breeds that have merle the majority of breeders ive met dont know.

 

well remember the attempts to get imported merle chihuahua's accepted as  purebred, they have enough additions already when the long coat gene was introduced so long ago, still get throwbacks you couldnt tell from a purebred pom or papillion and that was introduced some 80 or more years ago. so it was knocked back here in australia. it wasnt just the merle gene we figured would have been added to the gene pool

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1 hour ago, persephone said:

Puddy is a very useful teaching tool  :) people see him ..love his looks , until they look at his wonky eye ..and watch as he has some sound location probs ..and they see his pink skin ..and I explain about the double merle gene . (90% of them had no idea at all ..and are horrified at the thought that something which they thought of as just a 'colour' could have such far reaching effects . 
:) 

Absolutely! There a a huge number of double merle dogs out there that have fantastic lives despite their impairments, and so they should, and of course they don't know a life any different. They do of course often need lifetime special care, particularly for eye issues. 

 

Using the attention they get to educate is fantastic, I think it's definitely true that a huge number of people don't know merle to merle breeding even is problematic.

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1 hour ago, spyda62 said:

IMHO...a lot of the problem is that so many Double Merles ( especially Danes) are stunning looking dogs with their ( Ice Walker) blue eyes and lots of white coat. Often  because of their limited vision they have that shuffling walk that creates an even greater impression of a goofy oversized pup. Unscrupulous breeders are using that opportunity to gain big dollars from these pups, not caring at all about the lifetime of misery they are condemning these dogs to. 

image.thumb.jpeg.7bb06f6829a34dbdf47749e87960bcf1.jpeg

KNOWINGLY breeding merle to merle to actually try and get those pups to then sell is really disgusting, not only subjecting the dog to a lifetime of issues but alsothe owners to a lifetime of expense and unnecessary worry :( 

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Wow what a fascinating discussion.  I'm not a breeder but am looking to buy a Great Dane puppy soon.  We had previously owned a merle (great dane).  Can anyone recommend a book I could read.  I'd like to be an informed purchaser.  I have tried very hard to purchase my dogs (I am 62 years old) from breeders with good reputations but I'm sure some extra knowledge would help.  I do not intend to breed dogs ever; I'm just curious about the issue.  I have been interested in this subject for a while but I'm not sure where to go for more information.  (The breeder who breeds my Burmese cats cannot breed a red female - only male reds - and I've often wondered why.)

 

Thanks for your time and attention.

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10 hours ago, battycatlady said:

Wow what a fascinating discussion.  I'm not a breeder but am looking to buy a Great Dane puppy soon.  We had previously owned a merle (great dane).  Can anyone recommend a book I could read.  I'd like to be an informed purchaser.  I have tried very hard to purchase my dogs (I am 62 years old) from breeders with good reputations but I'm sure some extra knowledge would help.  I do not intend to breed dogs ever; I'm just curious about the issue.  I have been interested in this subject for a while but I'm not sure where to go for more information.  (The breeder who breeds my Burmese cats cannot breed a red female - only male reds - and I've often wondered why.)

 

Thanks for your time and attention.

I don't know about books but there is information online, if you google double merle genetics Great Dane you should find stuff.

 

I don't know Dane colours very well but basically if one parent is merle you want the other not to be. The merle gene is dominant so if a dog has a copy of it from one parent it will be merle. So a healthy merle dog should have one copy of the merle gene and one copy of a non-merle colour gene.

 

A non-merle dog will not have any copies of the merle gene so therefore cannot pass it on to result in the offspring ending up with two copies of the merle gene (double merle, where you get the issues).

 

The tricky thing is that occasionally a dog can actually have the merle gene but the visible merle area is so small that the dog appears non-merle.

 

If you are looking at a pedigreed purebred you can go back and look at the pedigree of the parents and grandparents to check that one of the parents in each breeding is actually non-merle.

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