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staffhund

Staffy pup annoying older dog

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Hi guys,

 

We have a 9-year-old dachshund who is very much set in his ways. He wasn't really socialised all too well as a pup and doesn't really like other dogs at all. He couldn't be more affectionate with people he knows well but is generally anxious and barky with strange people and dogs.

 

We just bought a Staffy puppy home (also a boy) and he is, of course, full of energy. We kept the old dog at my parents' house (where he gets treated very well) for a month to get the puppy used to our house as we suspected that there would be issues right away.

 

So, two days ago we finally decided to bring the two together at our house and safe to say it isn't going all that well. The dachshund will growl, bite aggressively and chase the pup away every time he comes close and now the pup has started constantly antagonising the old dog, aggressively barking at him and kind of encouraging him to chase him away.

 

We are not so much worried that they will never get along, as over time the dachshund has become friendly with a couple of other dogs, but we are worried that the old dog is teaching the pup to be aggressive. We obviously don't want that, particularly in a high energy dog like a Staffy.

 

Does anyone know if it is all too early to be socialising them? Is this normal and we need to be patient or are we right to be concerned?

 

Thanks.

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RuralPug   

They are certainly not going to become best buddies overnight. Best thing is to keep them separated unless you are CLOSELY supervising.
The old dog is not teaching aggression but the pup is not backing off when he should, it's up to you to teach him.

You need to actively socialise the staffy pup in all sorts of situations and at the same time, give him some basic training so that you can recall him away from dogs that find him annoying.

It's not fair on any dog to be annoyed by another, but especially for a senior. It's up to you to work with the pup, give him plenty of toys, and more importantly, train him NOT to pester other dogs who don't appreciate his play style. He hasn't learned that, so you must train him to come when called before you let him loose on any other dog. Some dogs will like his play style but others will  not so unless you have good recall things can escalate if he doesn't back off when another dog doesn't want to play,

You can see that problems have arisen because the older dog wasn't socialised properly - you need to make every effort to socialise the pup. This will involve taking him out on a daily basis where he can watch people and other dogs plus a few minutes basic training on sit.stay.come every day and a play session (tug or fetch, whatever you both enjoy) at the end 
 

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7 hours ago, RuralPug said:

They are certainly not going to become best buddies overnight. Best thing is to keep them separated unless you are CLOSELY supervising.
The old dog is not teaching aggression but the pup is not backing off when he should, it's up to you to teach him.

You need to actively socialise the staffy pup in all sorts of situations and at the same time, give him some basic training so that you can recall him away from dogs that find him annoying.

It's not fair on any dog to be annoyed by another, but especially for a senior. It's up to you to work with the pup, give him plenty of toys, and more importantly, train him NOT to pester other dogs who don't appreciate his play style. He hasn't learned that, so you must train him to come when called before you let him loose on any other dog. Some dogs will like his play style but others will  not so unless you have good recall things can escalate if he doesn't back off when another dog doesn't want to play,

You can see that problems have arisen because the older dog wasn't socialised properly - you need to make every effort to socialise the pup. This will involve taking him out on a daily basis where he can watch people and other dogs plus a few minutes basic training on sit.stay.come every day and a play session (tug or fetch, whatever you both enjoy) at the end 
 

Thanks for the great reply Ruralpug.

 

1. Do you think it's best to keep them apart until the pup becomes more obedient. He has learnt 'sit', 'lay down' and 'come' but this seems to go out the window when the other dog is around.

 

2. I've been getting mixed messages from different people about how to train the pup. Puppy school said that its a bad idea to yell at, scold the dog, or punish the dog with 'time out'... but I often read online (particularly in staffy related articles) that yelling 'BAH' or giving them a solid 15 minutes 'time out' is not only encouraged but expected.

 

Any advice here?

 

Cheers in advance.

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Tassie   

Your job in socialising is not just to expose the pup to various aspects of the world he is going to be living in, but also to set him up for success in it by limiting his ability to make undesirable choices, and showing him what choices you would like him to be making.  So for instance .. have him on lead so that he cannot practice harassing the older dog (and possibly hurting him, but certainly making his life a misery.)  The aim is to prevent giving pup the opportunity to rehearse behaviours you don't want to see again, while showing him what you do like and rewarding the heck out of  him . with treats, toys, personal play etc  .. for making "good" choices.   Personally I would also be making use of crates and/or xpens to give the pup a space where he can be free .. with some interactive toys or a snuffle mat to keep him busy .. while the dachshund has some free time unmolested.   I'd also be spending a lot of tme teaching all sorts of things to the pup .. in small doses, and playing with him .. to tire him out mentally.  It's going to be hard work for a while, but it will pay off.

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RuralPug   
5 hours ago, staffhund said:

Thanks for the great reply Ruralpug.

 

1. Do you think it's best to keep them apart until the pup becomes more obedient. He has learnt 'sit', 'lay down' and 'come' but this seems to go out the window when the other dog is around.

 

2. I've been getting mixed messages from different people about how to train the pup. Puppy school said that its a bad idea to yell at, scold the dog, or punish the dog with 'time out'... but I often read online (particularly in staffy related articles) that yelling 'BAH' or giving them a solid 15 minutes 'time out' is not only encouraged but expected.

 

Any advice here?

 

Cheers in advance.

They don't have to be apart, just safely separated except for those times you can active;y supervise them together.  An indoor puppy pen with a crate attached, as Tassie suggested, is a fantastic way, to let them share their people without getting on each other's last nerve while the puppy is in training.

While he finds annoying another dog to be more rewarding than coming when called he isn't yet really trained.

I agree that scolding or yelling will not encourage the bond you really need so that your pup consistently comes when called. Coming to you when called should be a great thing for him, always to be praised and rewarded. Some dogs prefer treats, others thing 30 seconds of tug with their person is the best thing in the world.'

Time out' is fine, especially if the humans involved are really frustrated but first you have to teach him that his safe place is a comfy secure place so that time out is not a punishment but just a chance to calm down - it is important that time out ends once puppy is calm or sooner.

The "BAH" in my opinion does not need to be yelled it should be muttered in a tone of disgust with hammed up body language to show that you disapprove of what he is doing right at the moment. It gets their attention, so that they stop, which gives you the chance to praise them for stopping and to step in, for instance, to trade the forbidden chew item for one of his toys.

Tassie is exactly correct in explaining that you need  to set him up for success. Five minutes training and five minutes playing a couple of times a day plus daily walks where he can watch (on leash) all sorts of things and in a month or two he will be a completely different pup.

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Dogsfevr   

In alll fairness the staffy pup is bigger & stronger than your Dachie.
The dachie has returned back too its home to a new pup that has no off switch or its own time out area & the Dachie also doesn't have its own time out /retreat area.
These dogs will never be best friends ,chances are the Dachie will most likely be very overwhelmed as time goes by so in reality i would not be expecting these two to live  happily ever after but setting up a lifestyle that means both dogs are independent off each other unless people are home .
The Dachies personality is already set ,its enjoyed a peaceful lifestyle & not had to share ,its a massive change for an older dog .
Your Dachie will get frustrated in trying to put it in its place because of the size difference & the dachie will be fearful if its not feeling a sense of calm & control .
 

 

Personally i think puppy schools are crap unless the instructor is very experienced & is setting all owners up for adult successful not just an hr free for all & teaching pups to do what they want with no self control.
We have big & small dogs here & whilst both parties interact its rare there left together & our oldies always when new litters or pups are about have a safe area set up from the very start so there not affected in anyway .
 

Your pup just wants to play ,in hindsight it would have been better to had the two together from day 1 instead of seperating to another house as the Staffy has a confidence in the home & the Dachie has returned to a puppy that has grown more & got its self established .
Managed the household & ensure the Staffy is socialized in a productive manner for life skills .
 

The biggest thing you need to be mindful is the Staffy doesn't damage your Dachies back with rough play at his age

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I feel very sympathetic for the older dachsy :( 
 having to  cope with a young , very solid, uneducated and energetic staffy  was certainly not on his Christmas list, I bet . there may well be some serious fights happen  because of  attitudes to other dogs /ages and  temperaments . 
i do hope you find a good training set up for the new pup ... as said ..most puppy schools don't really teach you much :(

have a read here ....:

http://blog.k9pro.com.au/getting-a-puppy/

 

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juice   

First of all you removed the resident dog and allowed the pup to come in and get confident and claim his place, mistake.

The dashy came home to a young intruder, much more powerful than him.

In order for the dashy to get his point across he will have to really show it as his size won't, and he is likely to get hurt by a pup that big leaping all over him.

You need to give the dashy an escape area where he doesn't have to deal with the pup, its not fair.

Staffy's play hard , they are not a great match for a dashy, so you need to manage it.

 

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Honestly, I don't know why you took the path that you did.  We bought in a new puppy about 7 weeks ago and the resident dog at first imagined the pup was here for a play date.  All went beautifully.  Next morning resident boy Elliot basically said to newcomer, Leroy 'what, are you still here?'  They would play for about 5 minutes and Elliot  cool off the play ignore Leroy and warn him if he got in his face.  Move on a week and all is love and mostly serenity.  Leroy, the pup was taught manners among other things and that's the way it should be.  As Juice said, you have now allowed your pup to claim his place and he believes his is higher on the ladder. 

As Perse mentioned a good training set up is what is needed now, and personally, I wouldn't delay as your Daxy is the one who is going to suffer.

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KobiD   

Our puppy was, and now at just over 1.5years old still is just like that.. Lacks social finesse in a big way! She can be actively pinned by the throat by another dog telling her off and as soon as they let go she'll bounce back up and get right up in their grill again. As an 8-12 week old pup she was like that with me too. You could rip it up her for biting a hand or foot and rather than cower a bit and come back hesitantly she'd just come back twice as hard.

 

I had the same concerns re her being aggressive but she's not aggressive in the slightest.. she's just hard headed, determined, and has a strong sense of independence in her nature... got her as a mutt totally unknown breeds but given her shape and behaviours and our location very strong chance she's offspring of hunting dogs (wild pigs).

 

Tassie gave me plenty of great advice and it's all paid off well. Totally agree in heavily rewarding what you like, and minimising the behaviours you don't. Our mutt is 22kg and just last week we dog sat for the sister in law; her 10yo maltese shih Tzu. Our dog lives outside so they both had separate areas to themselves.. if allowed free the older dog would behave the same, lip lifting, snapping, hiding behind what she could and the younger dog just didn't pick up on anything (thought it was great). A big bag of treats and her favourite toys, a bone or kong and the situation easily became one where the better choice for our pup was to do what was asked rather than pursue the little dog. Within a few days could easily open the back door and have both stay on their own sides by their own choice.. could have them both in the back yard or in the house together without them being overly interested in eachother.. I don't think nor would I expect them to be the kind to play together, but they can most definitely co exist with a bit of training and structure.  

 

We also have an indoor purebred ragdoll so the same training methods have been in use there since the pup was brought home. Can let the cat out and the dog gets excited but will recall and stay away and can let the dog in to say hello to the cat, but on the whole they tend to just sit each side of the door together.. while the dog does her happy dance.

 

May be best to set up some boundaries or areas for each and then allow them more access to eachother as they become familiar and tolerant, guided by you rewarding what you'd like to see. All my experiences with staffies are that most are high energy players and being balls of muscle they don't always know their own strength.

Edited by KobiD
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JillHR   

Though both my pups are still very young, Mindy was 6 months and very much bonded with me, when I bought Heidi. I made sure I didn't upset or change Mindy's routine in any way, I kept Heidi in pen with a soft kennel, I knew there would be a bit of Jealousy from Mindy, which there was when I patted or picked up Heidi, and they had supervised playtimes together.

 

We also did this with previous dogs, when we had 9 year old heeler and bought a border collie pup, (both died of old age) after a few weeks, they both got on well from then on, but we made sure the older dogs had the same attention as it had for the 9 years, same with Mindy and Heidi, they both get on well as long both get the same attention at the same time.. Heidi is only fed in the pen and Mindy outside it. 

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