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Christine_72

Aggression towards other puppies.

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I touched on this briefly in one of my other posts, which at that stage i wasn't sure if it was rough play or aggression...

Well i am now positive Nugget's behaviour toward other puppies is aggression. He will go up and sniff briefly and then growl and lunge going in for an attack! This happens nearly every time we come across a puppy, so i now leash him when i spot another pup coming in our direction. He is absolutely fine,polite and plays well with adult dogs, but puppies are an absolute no go.

He is 6mths old on the 12th of May, not yet neutered and we  have just started attending obedience training. I mentioned this issue to the trainer, and she said it's a mix of testosterone and prey drive... Hmmmmmm. 

She saw him in action when the pups had an off lead play session, he had a go at a little poodle pup. He had a time out and we had to watch from the other side of the fence for a few minutes, after which we were allowed back in, this time there was no aggression, but he went for the biggest dog in the group (8mth old German shorthaired pointer) and grabbed hold of his back leg and started furiously humping!! 

I am at a loss. I have never had behavioural problems with any of my past dogs, and i have only ever owned females.

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Be careful about the off-lead play sessions. That doesn’t sound like a pleasant experience for the poodle puppy, to say the least; experiences like that can cause ongoing anxieties.. It’s also very bad for Nugget to have the opportunity to rehearse problem behaviours. I’d seek out a reputable behaviourist or trainer specialising in that sort of problem.

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I've been not commenting because I don't want to be alarmist...but in my experience that is not normal puppy behavior, and I would worry about problems escalating at puberty.

I would seek an outside evaluation... I have less belief in behaviorists than many on these forums; maybe I just haven't met the right one.  I'd look for an experienced breeder who knows Nugget's breed, or perhaps ask your vet, if your vet is good about that sort of thing.  Or even someone who has done a lot of rescue work with puppies.  Diagnosis without seeing the pup is iffy.

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From your profile pick I see Nugget is a terrier.  Experienced Terrier owners tell me that Terriers are very different to other dogs.  I second sandgrubber's advice and would seek advice from an experienced Terrier breeder/owner to start with and perhaps that person can recommend a trainer that knows the breed.

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Looks like you have a JRT type...  don't be alarmed, this behaviour is quite normal... 6 month old terriers (especially JRT types) get too big for their boots and think they can take on the world... this really has nothing to do with the dog being entire but more just the age he is - basically he is now a teenager and he wants to make his own decisions -  You have to create boundaries.... if you don't this behaviour will continue and become worse... 


There is no problem letting him have off leash play, but sounds like you need supervision with someone who understands how to create good social play.
He needs to have patience.... this starts at the basics.... walking on the lead... he is not allowed to pull - if  he seas another dog he is not allowed to bark or pull on the lead... you have to make him wait and wait and wait - don't make him sit just let him fiddle around on the lead(not pulling) until he realised you are not going to change. ..then you make him wait and wait again - until he stops and just watches.... until he becomes calm.
This requires you to be calm and patient.... when you go to a park or walk in the street if he starts to yip or growl or bark you stop and correct him... you need to stop the mouth from taking charge of his actions....

 

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Thank you for your replies guys. He was slightly better at obedience this week, so hopefully we are making some headway. There was another Jack there, who had the same feisty attitude, but much worse than Nugget.

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On 5/7/2018 at 10:19 AM, Christine_72 said:

Thank you for your replies guys. He was slightly better at obedience this week, so hopefully we are making some headway. There was another Jack there, who had the same feisty attitude, but much worse than Nugget.

That's  good , you can feel better about Nugget & his  behaviour  now 

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On 5/8/2018 at 12:59 PM, PANDI-GIRL said:

That's  good , you can feel better about Nugget & his  behaviour  now 

I don't feel better that there was a worse behaved dog there, it seems that so many Jack Russells have this attitude problem, quite a few that i have met any way. I am determined to make him a well behaved and polite member of the dog world. I don't want to say "oh he's a Jack, that's just what they're like" and just give up. I am planning to stick with obedience and beyond until he passes with flying colours.

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Asher   

I’d be interested to hear from other people who have had this issue in the past too, or are experienced with such behavioral issues. One of my dogs (not a terrier) has been aggressive to puppies and young submissive dogs since he himself was a few months old. He’s now three and I still don’t let him meet puppies plus avoid prolonged greetings with submissive dogs, even though he’s nearly always busting to say hi. He now mounts other dogs when he’s aroused/excited, particularly if they are unable to run and wrestle freely. After a lot of observation, thinking, reading and consulting (including a qualified behaviorist and trainer) I think it’s a combination of things, each of which might be the primary driver of any single incident depending on the situation. Several are closely related to each other and come from breed traits as well as training issues. These include: Frustration / lack of patience / lack of self control skills; wanting to control situations or make the first move if uncertain or anxious; a spoilt brat attitude that inherently feels ‘entitled’ and expects canines and humans to do what he wants including play NOW (and gets pissed off if they don’t); very high prey drive plus too much value for playing with other dogs resulting in over-arousal and threshold-crossing; and last but not least, resource-guarding/possessiveness (especially of me). Hopefully that gives you some ideas when thinking about potential drivers and training. I agree it’s very important that there’s no more opportunity to practice the behaviour.

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'Asher' you are correct in saying that this is due to different factors.... Some dogs are not very adaptable - they can find social interaction difficult - yet they can fit outside of the 'norm' and the procedures that many trainers will often recommend don't really fit.

These dogs like to have the world work to their schedule. Dogs can be nervous and try to scare other dogs away... or .... somewhat arrogant / frustrated when others won't play the way they want. Each dog is an individual and when addressing these types of issues there is no - "one solution" because there is no - "one motivation" for the behaviour. 

It is often worth thinking of kids in the school ground - they have to learn how to adjust and adapt to fit in with different groupings of kids. For some it is easy for some it takes time and others seem to really struggle.  But learning how takes practice.
We run workshops for dogs to build social skills. Our own dogs mix with many dogs and have broad skills which makes it easier for the dogs that struggle, It is also the humans who have to work out when to step in and when to let the dog alone to learn by trial and error.

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20 hours ago, PANDI-GIRL said:

@Christine_72 How is  Nuggets behavior now with other dogs, is he enjoying time playing 

He's up and down @PANDI-GIRL . Some pups he's fine with, others he's still doing the bullyish behaviour.

 

Ironically we were at the beach a couple of days ago, and there were 2, 8mth old Jack Russells there, which were Nuggets mini me's :heart: He displayed his aggression and the little Female gave it straight back to him! Thereafter he was a perfect a little angel, and played nicely lol Pretty much 100% of the time, the other dog rolls over on it's back which just makes Nugget worse. I wish they all had a go back at him, as this pulls him onto line quick smart!

 

I have another theory why he is like this... Quite a few times when he was little, larger puppies jumped on, squished him and hurt him etc Just were far too rough with him. His behaviour could be linked to this??

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Nugget is showing other dogs how tough he is, funny little fellow  :laugh:   

What a lot of fun, a day at the beach,  good on the female for standing up to Nugget,  her behaviour probably made him happy &  thinking she is fun to play with ,  that's fabulous  :thumbsup:  

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Dogsfevr   
On 8/23/2018 at 8:56 AM, Christine_72 said:

He's up and down @PANDI-GIRL . Some pups he's fine with, others he's still doing the bullyish behaviour.

 

Ironically we were at the beach a couple of days ago, and there were 2, 8mth old Jack Russells there, which were Nuggets mini me's :heart: He displayed his aggression and the little Female gave it straight back to him! Thereafter he was a perfect a little angel, and played nicely lol Pretty much 100% of the time, the other dog rolls over on it's back which just makes Nugget worse. I wish they all had a go back at him, as this pulls him onto line quick smart!

 

I have another theory why he is like this... Quite a few times when he was little, larger puppies jumped on, squished him and hurt him etc Just were far too rough with him. His behaviour could be linked to this??

Sadly most pet owners feel the need to rush to the beach & dog parks with there pups & happily accept there dog being bullied & hurt & think its funny .Most are more worried about making there puppy tired that looking at what is going on isn't really on there watch list & go back each week for the same behaviour to happen,then that narky dog gets older and does the exact same thing to someone else 's puppy & creates more issue dogs .
Pup hasn't learnt self control & they wont when offleash given permission to do what they want .Most of these dogs have terrible leash manners & pull there owners so they learn no life skills there so owners find the offleash park convenient compared to walking so pup/dog is learning no life skills except pull hard enough you get rewarded offleash & no self control or manners .

I would still be mindful of his manners ,yes he may have respected the one that had a go at him BUT he is still a young dog & could decide the next one that challenges him is fair game & learns a whole new level of unsavory behaviour .
Finding the right dog to give an educational & respectful telling off is not easy  & one that  knows not to ignore  the challenge

Edited by Dogsfevr
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Usually when i see a puppy coming, i redirect him or put him on a leash. Lately though, i have been giving him extra special, tasty treats whenever a puppy is in the vicinity. I want him to associate other pups with good things. Telling him off does absolutely nothing! So, i'm leaning more toward the positive training side.

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