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karen15

Interesting article on possible link between diet and heart disease

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karen15   

I found this a really interesting read. It suggests a possible link between grain free diets and heart disease. Certainly indicates dietary deficiencies can be linked to heart disease. It looks to be from the US. It will be interesting to hear what outcomes they find.

 

http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2018/06/a-broken-heart-risk-of-heart-disease-in-boutique-or-grain-free-diets-and-exotic-ingredients/

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sheena   

Why are we surprised ?? A very interesting read & I often wonder if this extends to fancy human diet trends with GF DF MF FF when people embrace these trends without having a medical condition

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Interesting article.  Hope it's followed by research, thought I don't see many funding sources for long term dietary studies.

Changing breed mix and increasing prevalence of dogs bred to fill market demand (especially for brachy breeds) is another possible cause.  

Edited by sandgrubber

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tdierikx   

Anyone else notice that the breeds she notes are predominately deep chested breeds?

 

T.

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Super interesting - thanks for posting it :thumbsup:

 

I wonder if it is from the absence of grains or the inclusion of the substitutes. Or maybe just higher protein levels generally? (Though I doubt it)  Would love to read some more research on this. 

Edited by mackiemad

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Serket   

Research is currently being done (Dr Joshua Stern) on whether there is a link between the legumes in many grain free foods and taurine deficient dilated cardiomyopathy. Many golden retrievers in particular seem to be affected. I hadn’t fed grain free until recently and when I did it wasn’t because of the grain free factor but due to other ingredients, I’ve since switched to another food after seeing the research and realising that peas are not as healthy as they might seem.

 

I’ve also discovered how utterly impossible it is to find a non-legume (peas in particular) filled grain free (or even otherwise) dog food. Even brands that didn’t previously have them now do, extremely pissed off to order bags of food and have the ingredients on the bag differ from the website.  Yes the major commercial brands are “safe” but not necessarily what I want to feed. 

 

It’s becoming a big issue in America with some very active Facebook groups with active vet involvement as well (ie not crazies), but I hadn’t heard/seen anything locally and vets and other people I’ve spoken to lately weren’t aware of any potential issues. 

 

The other issue with all the grain free diets is while non grain free may have filler the grain free have big % of protein coming from the legumes and not from animal protein sources but labelling requirements don’t distinguish that - not as much meat as it might seem they have 

 

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Maddy   

If "exotic" ingredients like lamb and roo are as risky as the article suggests, Australian dogs should be in a lot of trouble, given those are actually common ingredients here, used by many large non-boutique manufacturers. 

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@Serket  The balanced canine sydney  Facebook  page has a  Kibble   Spreadsheet,  with great info on  protein %  from meat sources  

 

Stay Loyal small bites  has 82% of it's protein from meat :thumbsup:

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On 7/6/2018 at 1:49 PM, Maddy said:

If "exotic" ingredients like lamb and roo are as risky as the article suggests, Australian dogs should be in a lot of trouble, given those are actually common ingredients here, used by many large non-boutique manufacturers. 

The article is circumspect about exotic ingredients... I don't see that it says anything stronger than that they, or some of them, can't be ruled out as contributing to the problem, and there's little evidence of benefit.  In short, research is needed.  On the other hand, there's LOTS of evidence that exotics are good marketing.

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Maddy   
12 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

The article is circumspect about exotic ingredients... I don't see that it says anything stronger than that they, or some of them, can't be ruled out as contributing to the problem, and there's little evidence of benefit.  In short, research is needed.  On the other hand, there's LOTS of evidence that exotics are good marketing.

But exotic is being defined as just ingredients that aren't common in one particular country. Lamb is a common ingredient here, and presumably, large brands such as Black Hawk are ensuring their foods are nutritionally complete. The article suggests that "Small pet food manufacturers might be better at marketing than at nutrition and quality control"and then provides no evidence of that, at all.

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Serket   
On 10/07/2018 at 9:02 AM, PANDI-GIRL said:

@Serket  The balanced canine sydney  Facebook  page has a  Kibble   Spreadsheet,  with great info on  protein %  from meat sources  

 

Stay Loyal small bites  has 82% of it's protein from meat :thumbsup:

Pandi-Girl - I looked at the page but can’t seem to search and/or scroll far enough to find it...

 

The issues seem to be linked with the legumes and peas and stay loyal does still have those so I’m not sure but it’s getting really hard to find anything completely without them. Holistic select has ONE food left without them but it’s probably only a matter of time. Zahra loves the salmon Blackhawk and did well on it but peas #2 so that had to go. Nothing proven sure but not risking it. 

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On 7/11/2018 at 12:39 AM, Maddy said:

But exotic is being defined as just ingredients that aren't common in one particular country. Lamb is a common ingredient here, and presumably, large brands such as Black Hawk are ensuring their foods are nutritionally complete. The article suggests that "Small pet food manufacturers might be better at marketing than at nutrition and quality control"and then provides no evidence of that, at all.

1. Lamb is pretty common US dogfood.

2. Do you need evidence to suggest something might be due to a cause?  In this case, evidence of small brands going big on marketing can be found in any large pet store.  Linda Case's blog had some nice evidence of poor quality control (and fraudulent labelling)...if I remember correctly, smaller brands were the worst offenders.

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@Serket  There is a  metal  bowl full of kibble in  ( Photos ) click on the photo and  the link for  kibble data  is there.  

                    Hope you find this helpful 

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Serket   

Thanks! Found it! Will stick with what we have for now even though it’s in the will not disclose list because at least no peas/legumes but if they change the formula and/or the research is concluded then it’s great to have that data, protein % can be so misleading it’s great that some companies will stand by their product and disclose meat%

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Actually see that Rodney Habib (planet paws) has put up some information about this article... probably worth noting that the author is actually involved with the major dog feed manufacturers.... Which can often happen when you search about the authors on various articles.... 
 

Recently also read a comprehensive article in the Pet Industry Magazine about the future of pet food.... the article didn't talk about the food or the quality or lack there off... in fact it actually discussed the future marketing objectives of the Pet Industry about how the millennial generation want to know about the science  behind the food and that want to know the food is made in a 'kitchen' not in a factory.....with fresh ingredients just like when they go to a restaurant themselves and want the food presented in a certain fashion.....

 

Which made me think about the new advert I have seen where someone is in a restaurant and places an order and the waiter takes the order out the back to the 'kitchen' where the 'chef' then chops up some lovely steak whilst another is washing and chopping fresh vegetables then it all gets poured into a bowl (which they show a hint of pouring in some kibble)..... and then carried out on a tray to the DOG.....

 

We have already seen many of the dry food products now coming out with names that sound natural... 'Earthborn'  'Natures gift' etc... the marketing spin they were talking about means we are going to see appearing in the future will be products with names like SV786 - marketing to the tech savvy owners as well as more of the 'holistic' mentioning for the future yuppie.

 

The Big Companies are going to fight against the raw feeding because they don't make profit from those who do it themselves.... so watch out for the bullshit heading our way about how many of our 'natural' products are going to come under fire for the danger of bacteria etc.......

 

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6 hours ago, Serket said:

Thanks! Found it! Will stick with what we have for now even though it’s in the will not disclose list because at least no peas/legumes but if they change the formula and/or the research is concluded then it’s great to have that data, protein % can be so misleading it’s great that some companies will stand by their product and disclose meat%

One of the big things to remember is that the nutrient levels shown on the packaging are all PRIOR TO ANY COOKING.... hence we know that heat changes the elements..... therefore what they say on the packaging is actually... well BASICALLY BULLSHIT

 

They can say it is lamb.... just because it came of a sheep... but what part ... it can be the crap bits that are all left overs that once upon a time... normally go in the bin

 

 

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Maddy   
On 12/07/2018 at 11:38 AM, sandgrubber said:

1. Lamb is pretty common US dogfood.

2. Do you need evidence to suggest something might be due to a cause?  In this case, evidence of small brands going big on marketing can be found in any large pet store.  Linda Case's blog had some nice evidence of poor quality control (and fraudulent labelling)...if I remember correctly, smaller brands were the worst offenders.

If lamb is common in US dog food, why is the author of the article calling it an exotic ingredient, and suggesting there is insufficient feed research on it (as an "exotic" ingredient)?

And yes- if you're going to word things in such a way as to lead the reader to believe they are fact, then the author should have evidence to back up those claims, and be willing to cite it. 

It's no different than the crazies on the other end of the stick, who claim anything processed will cause cancer. I'd want evidence for any claim presented as fact :shrug:

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Yeah I'm one of those 'crazies' - and I can cite the science but I'm not going to take a half day of time to do it. Its easily accessible if you look - start here for a summary of the science and here

 

I've looked incredibly closely and carefully at the science and the political and social determinants of human nutrition, current government dietary guidelines (and yes the food pyramid which we've all taken as gospel and is completely unsupported by the science) and its fads like all the variations on high carb/low fat diets over the last 40 -50 years. And I've concluded that these fads were driven by industry and vested interest and not by sound science.  And for me, the standard government and medical advice I'd been given over a lifetime and told to follow was sending me to an early grave.   

 

And I've started to wonder if despite the physiological differences it isn't the same or similar for our dogs?  Their diets have changed enormously since processed pet foods were introduced (who benefits?) - and so have their rates of doggy lifestyle diseases - heart disease, diabetes, obesity, cancer etc etc.  Is that connected or is it a coincidence?

 

I don't know the answer but I'm beginning to suspect its an incredibly important question to answer in a scientifically sound way despite what will be enormous opposition from vested interests.  And yet if those vested interests have nothing to hide, then they have nothing to worry about the science proving their foods are healthy and safe, once and for all. 

Edited by westiemum
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This morning, I happened across this LIVE  ! 
interesting discussion . 
 

 

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I have been watching with much interest this very topic unfold on  Dog Food Advisor Forum

There are  quite a lot of upset people,  not knowing what to feed their dogs anymore

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