Interesting article

[asal]

https://workingshepherds.wordpress.com/2018/07/16/the-dutch-prong-ban/

 

 

So many thing being legislated to appease animal rights with little or no input by those who actually know having little to no input 

[tdierikx]

The last time I fronted up to a group training club with my dog sporting a correctly fitted check chain was an interesting experience... *grin*

 

And the fact that my Labrador was expelled from the same club because the only thing she learned with 100% accuracy was that bumbags contain tasty treats... after I'd explained that she would be working for praise not food, and the stupid "trainers" thought they knew better and fed her from their bumbags at every opportunity. THEY caused the issue, then expelled us because the dog ended up fixated on bumbags... *sigh*

 

The one thing I've learned from owning and training many dogs is that each dog is different in their training requirements... some need correction, and some are more malleable and will work for praise or treats... and some are just bloody nightmares to handle on a flat collar. I've never used a prong collar, but would be open to learning how to use one effectively if I had a dog that needed that level of control.

 

Just as it's imperative to learn how to properly use a clicker, treats, praise, etc... the same applies to correction methods we may need to use in training some dogs. I learned how to properly use a check chain (it's not a "choke" chain), and that has seen me use them effectively on quite a few of my own dogs - the chain is never tight, and all I need to do is use my little finger on the loose lead to make the chain click and the dogs come back into line quickly.

 

T.

[BDJ]

The only time I have seen a 'prong' collar in use was in the USA. 

 

It was on a boardwalk in California, and the first thing I noticed was that there were so many dogs and people using the same space without issues.  No barking, no pulling no ruckus at all - yet the dogs were comfortable and friendly, they weren't shut down at all, they were just polite and well mannered.  Several of the larger dogs had the prong collar on, yet they were all loose and did not appear to be bothering them.  I saw one dog get overexcited and 'rude' - the owner didn't shout, run or carry on - he simple removed the dog in a very no-nonsense 'march' to a quieter space and gave it a time out.  If I wasn't actually watching the interactions I doubt if I would have noticed it.  It was a medium/large strong dog and it had a pinch collar - he did not haul it around so I don't believe the dog would have been 'bitten' by the collar, but I think having the extra 'oomph' was another trigger to the dog that its behaviour was unacceptable.  The collar was literally tight for a second or so and then released.   So - I see it the same as most things - a good tool when used properly.  Not needed in most cases, but in some yes

 

I think what I see most days is worse - dogs being hauled and dragged around or pulling furiously on harnesses, flat collars etc.  

 

I remember talking to someone at the local park a few months ago.  My dogs don't exit a vehicle until they are asked, that is one of the first rules the learn.  Because I had gotten slack and for the previous however many (20-30ish) visits I had just opened the door and said 'ok' straight away, this time as soon as I opened the door Belle (RC collie) piled straight out.  I simply picked her up and deposited her on the back seat - I didn't throw her but I will say I was not the most gentle - it was a firm 'oi - you are not permitted out here now, you are being put in the car NOW'.  I then was standing with the door open with the three of them on the back seat (only the collie had exited without permission).  A woman came up and told me that she thought I could have asked the collie to get in the car and that she didn't approve of the way I had returned Belle to the car.  I explained why I had done it and then got told about positive reinforcement/dogs learn better if you show them what you want and let them chose/food and praise work well etc. - she then proceeded to tell me about her neighbour whose dog was killed last year because it had jumped out of the car at the shops and got hit in the carpark.   MMM - i would much rather give Belle a reminder in a safe manner than have her killed or injured.  When it was time to leave Belle happily jumped in the car to go home, and since then has waited for an express invitation :-)

[persephone]

I have used check chains and prong collars in a previous life ..neither is 'cruel' if the operator is trained in their use . prong collars appear an instrument of torture to many eyes  because of the way they are constructed ..then again ..so do these things ;) 

[tdierikx]

Those things ARE an instrument of torture perse... I've tried them! Definitely not for MY feet...

 

T.

[asal]

i love them, massage bliss